Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Monolithics - easing into 308 bullets

After rather abysmal performance, in my view, of the 180 gr Sierra Game King from my 308 (2630 MV), I'm going to stick my toe into the monlithic bullet pool. I still love the Partition but my current 308 doesn't care for the 165 or 180. It likes Accubonds but gets funky - sub MOA 3 shot groups some days, 1.5" groups on others, normally 2-3-4 in a nice tight cluster and one flyer opening the group to 1.5".

Lets address the whole pulling bullets from dead animals. I shot 5 animals this year with the 308/180 gr Game King. One exit on a twice shot elk at 50 feet dead broadside. Based on my experience with deer, I'm guessing it was shot 2. First shot he simply stood there and I put another within an inch of the first, tight behind the shoulder. I shot 4 deer in the past month and failed to get an exit. I couldn't even see where the bullet, or any fragments (bone or bullet) even hit the far side of the ribcage. Lungs were sufficiently destroyed but ZERO blood. I had to track every deer even though they only went 40-50 yards. Even in the snow - very, very little blood. When deer depart the scene among a bunch of other deer, tracking becomes tricky. Despite what some will chime in here - I'm not using another Sierra Game King on anything bigger than coyotes again, ever.

In full disclosure I've had issue with the first gen Barnes TSX, 25 cal. Zero expansion on a sample of 2 back-to-back. I also had a 140 TSX from a 7 RM give underwhelming tissue damage. Those examples occurred in back-to back years and were 14-15 years ago. I've seen Brad's 150 TTSX from his 308 and trust his experiences. Still think I'm ready to try the monolithics again and hope all the posts I see about them are true.

I've talked to the 3 main mono makers - Barnes, Nosler, Hornady. Barnes recommended 150 or 168 TTSX, Nosler 168 E-tip, Hornady 165 GMX.

So - 308, elk/deer, shots feet to 400 yards max - what has been your experience with monolithics (Barnes TSX, Nosler E-tip, Horn GMX) at 308 velocities (2700 for 165/168, 2900 for 150)? Shoot 150 or 165/168 for elk/deer?

Thanks.

I have not shot any for a number of years, but velocity is your friend with the monos. I would go with the 150, if I was going the mono route. They will hammer any elk, or deer that you encounter.

130 TTSX and 150 TTSX work awesome out of the .308. Either will give all the penetration you need.

Jordan:
Top of the morning to you sir, I see you folks on the other side of the big hills have warmed up a wee bit too this morning, we're at about the same temps actually - so I hope that and all else in your world is going according to plan.

My good wife is talking about getting back into hunting after a 25 year hiatus and the 130gr TTSX will absolutely be my first choice to try in her little .308 Carbine. We'll likely try either them or the 150gr TTSX in her .308 Norma first too, though the 168gr TSX in my .308 Norma aren't too, too bad for recoil and have given me the same tissue damage and penetration as a 200gr Partition on deer.

We switched to monolithic bullets at our place when the girls started hunting at 10 years old - one is now married and the other in her last year of her degree at UVic - so I guess a good decade back. While we never shot anything larger than deer sized animals, we did get a good enough number of local mulie and whitetail bucks into the freezer with .257", .264", .277" and .308" TSX, TTSX and GMX bullets to form a bit of an opinion on them for sure.

Overall I like them because if things go sideways with the first or second hit on a game animal, they absolutely will work if all you've got is a quartering away shot and you need to plow through the grass bag to hit the vitals before the deer heads into a shin tangle canyon carved out by either glacier run off or one of Satan's minions.....

Yah, I have packed game out of a few of them Jordan...

We try to break a shoulder with the monos, either going in or coming out - or in the event we can break both, then that's what we'll try for. The resulting tissue damage, reaction from the animal upon being hit and resulting demise of said animal are more predictable if the front differential is taken out.

On a pristine picture perfect broadside shot that we grew up taking - especially on young mulie bucks who have to take that last fatal look at what spooked them - we've found that the monos work just okay if only ribs are broken. In fact I'd rate them as less effective than a cup and core bullet if only ribs are broken.

They will typically give an exit hole to track with however, so if that's the goal then they'll tick that box usually.

If however say the spine is hit or the big knuckle where the scapula is joined to the ulna, then that's where the monos shine in our experience. This often resulting in an exit hole and typically a grounded animal in 1-5 steps.

Anyway sir, I'm cognizant that I didn't answer the OP's question directly as it pertained to .308 velocity monos, but hopefully it was useful for someone out there anyway.

All the best to you and yours this Christmas Season Jordan.

Dwayne

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1037&context=hwi

The above are the published results from ~900 elk kills during the culling in TRNP. I don't believe they broke it down by bullet weight, just by "magnum" or "non-magnum". All of the bullets were mono's.

Since 2004 (the year I started using TSX bullets) I've killed 1 Moose, 2 caribou, 8 elk and 30+ deer. What I notice is there's very little difference in entrance/exit holes or damage in-between whether using a 243Win/85TSX up through a 300Win Mag w/200gn TSX. I've taken animals from <50yds to right at 500yds and the wounds more or less always look the same. IME, the only real difference is 100's from my 257Wby @ 3800fps are more devastating inside the critter but in/out still look the same. Everything else (243/85's, 25-06/100's, 270/140's, 7-08/120's, 280/120s, 7x57/120's, and 300Win/200's) runs a MV from 3000-3300fps and if looking at skinned hanging carcasses the entrance is the only hole that gives some sort of clue as to which of the above one might have used. The exit wounds are all roughly golf-ball sized and the wound channels are all relatively straight from impact to exit independent of shot angle.

I can't say definitively if mono's kill better or faster than other bullet options, but I can say that IMO/IME, they're performance is consistent and dependable. You can essentially plan a wound channel based upon where you want the bullet to exit and within reason, it'll get there and perform as you'd expect with boring reliability.

I just shot an 8 point at close to 300 yards with a 150 ttsx started at around 2800 fps. Bulllet entered high in the lungs just under the spine. Deer was down and kicking yet was dead by the time that I could get over to it. If you look at a ballistic calculator that bullet was probably only doing 2200 when it hit that deer yet it still killed well. I doubt that another 100 yards worth of range would have changed much.

I'd recco the 150 TTSX for the .308 Win.

Those pretty much parallel my experiences with Sierra game Bullets. With 300 grain Bullets at a mv of around 2600 to 2700 fps, I couldn’t get an exit from a mule deer (broadside shot), and an average black bear (broadside shot), lost my first elk ( an angled shot from rear). When using in a test medium....they disintegrated while other cup and core bullets performed as expected. That was 30 years ago.....have never and will never buy another Sierra bullet! memtb

Two words....


Core

Loct

100gn SGK's @ 3600+ via 257Wby provide some spectacular splashes on steel targets.

Good read horse!

I'm tending toward a 150 at 2900. Are any of the monos "softer" than others?

I was a volunteer for the TRNP cull. My team leader was the coordinator for the whole culling project and told me that after the program was concluded they'd publish the data on the bullets/performance etc. They recorded quite a bit of ballistic and terminal data on each kill, or at least our team leader did.

I will say that climbing the fence of a Nat'l park with an elk quarter stuffed in your backpack and then being offered a ride in the county sheriff's patrol pickup (without handcuffs) in the ditch of the Interstate Highway was an odd experience.

No idea if any mono's are "harder" or "softer" than their counterparts. I have 2 friends who've used the 308/130's on an awful lot of deer to good effect. The one buddy's wife also used the 308/130TSX on a very large bull moose here in ND. @ ~125yds she had both projectiles exit the moose catching a shoulder on the way out.

The Barnes LRX, is supposed to be a little softer (annealing process). There is a small independent company (Hammer Bullets), that offer several different mono designs (supper high bc’s to very aggressive expansion). Some are supposed to expand violently, shedding petals early upon entry, causing substantial damage. However, they are expensive! memtb

I’ve sorta began trying the Barnes TTSX offerings more this year. Started with the 180 TTSX in the 350 Rem Mag, 250 TTSX in the 375 Ackley, 168 TTSX in the 30-06, and will start my 35 Whelen with the 200 TTSX. I’ve been told the 168 TTSX is a little softer up front and works well at longer ranges.

I did poke a little forked horn whitetail with my 10 twist 375 Ackley 250 TTSX started at 2900. Shot was further back than I intended but it still mulched the insides and he died pretty quickly. Was pleasantly surprised with it actually.

Not giving up on any of the other bullets I use such as Nosler, BBCs, Swift’s but I Like To try different things and I had good luck with the 225 TSX in the Whelen on elk and deer but I never used any smaller caliber ones since a few of my partners reported less than great results with the non tipped variety.

I’ve got couple boxes of 225 Hammers for my 35 Newton once I get it rebarreled. They look pretty mean.

My primary hunting partner uses 210 TTSX via 338Win for elk/moose and 150TTSX via 280AI for deer and you could lump them right in with everything I said above. Mind-numbing reliability.

My wife uses 225TTSX’s in her .338 WM, and I’m using 250 TTSX’s in my .375. We’ve used Barnes exclusively since the early ‘90’s! memtb

+1. I loaded some 168 TTSXs for a friend who shot a bull with his .308. He hit it in the heart and it went down but the recovered bullet looked almost new except for the missing tip and rifling marks.

I concur, if used in a .308 Win........go with the 150’s! memtb

Merry Christmas, Dwayne! Thanks for the well wishes. Hopefully everything is going well for you and yours, also, and the Christmas season is good to you.

My experience mirrors yours on each point you make. My experience with Barnes bullets includes roughly 140 BG animals ranging from deer, caribou, elk, moose, bear, etc. A mid to high-shoulder shot puts critters down right now, while a shot hitting only ribs/lungs will kill quickly, particularly with the TTSX/LRX, but not quite as quickly as a fragmenting C&C.

The .308 Win/130 TTSX surprises most people who haven't seen it at work much, with just how deep it'll penetrate while doing significant damage at the same time.

Although not a mono, the other bullet I've been looking at is the 165 Swift SC II. They supposedly like to jump - my 308 theyll jump 0.100 or so.......

That’s damned near my favorite bullet B. If they shoot, they work real well. Modern day Bitterroot in my experience with better BC.

A bit different, but effective. Cutting Edge Bullets make several types, the Raptor designed to shed 6 petals, the core pushing on thru. And for those worried about their TTSX, etc, losing petals. That's not a bad thing, IMO. CEB doesn't think so either.

Not inexpensive, but how many do you actually shoot at game, anyway. I've posted this before.

These perform as advertised. Check low S.D.'s with Varget. This is a killing combo and quite accurate.

Check out CEB on line. This extended range 135 shoots faster/flatter than 150's. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/308-135gr-er-extended-range-raptor

Gun is a Kimber Classic with a .308 Win. 5R Broughton SS 23" barrel. Amazing what a good barrel can do for a Kimber...

DF

For a 308 Win I’d lean 130 TTSX. Just picked up a couple boxes last week in fact. Velocity is a good thing with a mono from what I’ve seen. Though I’m sure a 150 starting at 2900 would have the same result.

Two holes at 308 vels at 300 yards?

I would expect two holes.

You have to realize that the typical mono has a smaller frontal area than the typical C&C. Therefore, they out penetrate the typical C&C but don't impart as much of their energy to the target as they pass through and typically pass all the way through. They also typically leave a substantially smaller exit wound so even though you get 2 holes, don't expect to always have a significant blood trail.
Because of these factors, you need to use monos differently. You want to do significant damage to the CNS or skeleton so your best shots are usually neck or shoulder shots for a DRT.
The 150's are my pick for an all arounder.

I use the 150 GameKing in my 308’s. They kill deer and pigs just fine. I use TTSX bullets in several other caliber rifles. They are great too.

Myself I’d probably drop down to a 150 just to get the speed up a bit more. Speed will help with Scirocco just like it does with a mono in my experience. They have an excellent frontal area that may get caught in the hide on the far side of an elk. With the 150 getting pushed faster it may expand enough to push that frontal area back enough to punch thru with more certainty. In all honesty the 150 from a 280 and 7mm Rem Mag and the 210 from my 338 Win have been wicked killers but even the 338 pushed at 2950 from the muzzle didn’t exit when shot in the front legs of a bull elk at 150’ish yards. Didn’t matter since he went nowhere but rolling down the hill.

338 (150 yards)



7mm (450 yards)

Some of the hunters I know like a high shoulder shot with a mono.

That's a CEB advantage for chest shooters, they frag and tear up more tissue with chest shots. I chest shot a hog, just to see. DRT. Hogs usually run when chest shot. The petals hit the spine. A std. mono wouldn't have touched the spine, would have blasted on thru.

Now, shooting the 120 E-TIp or TTSX at 26 Nosler speeds, there is enough tissue damage for impressive chest shot results. At conventional speeds, I agree with skeletal or CNS hits with monos. For chest shooting at conventional speeds, I prefer more expansive C&C type bullets.

I'm a firm believer in matching bullet design with velocity for optimal results.

DF

Dirtfarmer, Those are some very valid points, however, for myself and likely many others, the velocity could vary from 3000+, down to 1800 .....on the same hunt during the same day. In other words, literally.....from near the muzzle to in excess of 600 yards, and most any angle. That would, IMO, lower the number of candidates as the chosen bullet! memtb

I recently shot a bull elk at 225 yards with a 168 TTSX that was moving about 2,800 fps at impact and the performance and pass thru were devastating. A basic bang flop. Given the .308 Win velocity potential, I would go with a 150 TTSX and perhaps limit shooting to ranges where 2,000 fps at impact is possible. YMMV. Happy Trails

Good bud uses the 168 TTSX in his 30-378, his son in a 300 RUM. At those speeds, that bullet is a hammer.

IME, I tend to go lighter with those bullets, trying to keep the speed up.

However, it's hard to beat your experience with the 168 TTSX.

DF

Very nice write up by Dwayne.

I have been a Barnes X fan since they first came out. They will readily admit to having sourcing problems for copper wire in the initial years. I think many of the anecdotal accounts damming the X bullet came from that era and just won't die, especially with the magic of the intermonet.

All of the Mono's have gotten better.
I would go light with a 130 - 150 grain bullet for starters unless Elk were the primary quarry in which case I would start with the 165s (168s better BC) even though the others would work fine. I would pick any of the tipped iterations due to the lower velocities of the 08. The LRX and E-tips have larger hollow points or a softer nose for easier expansion.

Like Dwayne if 100% or close too reliability is needed, penetration from all angles, and intentionally shooting for bone were the criteria I would pick a mono bullet.

In my 26 Nos, I can't tell the difference between 120 E-Tip and 120 TTSX regarding accuracy and terminal performance. I've read that the E-Tip may open better than the TTSX. Right now, I'm shooting the 127 LRX in the Nos. It's about as accurate and we'll see how it works. Just targets so far, no meat yet.

I have a Loony problem, too many rifles, too many combos to try, don't spend enough time working with just one.

Oh well...

The old saying, beware the man with just one rifle; he probably knows how to shoot it. Seems I'm on the other end of that spectrum....

DF

Good video for Barnes Bullets. They changed their bullets, on some of their loaded ammo.
Take a look.

[video:vimeo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv248vNPR4U&t=62s[/video]

Pretty neat. I guess the optimized 130 TTSX is a bit softer than the std. 130 TTSX, maybe more along the lines of the LRX.

I guess it has to do with heat treatment or maybe alloy. I doubt they're saying exactly how they do that. I wouldn't...

DF

The 168 TTSX is all I’ve used in my .300 Wby, so tough to say about the others. One of the guys in our hunting gang also uses the 168 TTSX in a .30-.378 Wby and another shoots 180 TTSX in his .300 Weatherby Accuguard. The 150 TTSX has also been very effective in no-tracking-required kills with my 7mm Weatherby. I guess I can’t bring myself to waste powder and bullets searching for something better when the TTSX and TSX have gotten the job done without fail. Happy Trails

hd - thanks for posting that link. I'll call Barnes today - I don't see the Vortex 150 gr as components and suspect they keep it that way to force people to buy the ammo. I also wonder what powder they use. I'm guessing some type of ball powder. I doubt they'll divulge what the secret recipe is.................

This has been a very informative thread. Thank you and keep the thoughts rolling!

You mean the 150 TTSX component bullet?

I have a load for one of my .308's. (150 T-TSX) I used RL-15, groups really well. With the velocity only 20 fps different than the Vortex ammo. Barnes loading that different bullet, I could be happy shooting the factory stuff.
This is coming from a long time reloader who has some rifles that have never seen a factory round in the chamber.
Wish you the best.

The TTSX Vortex component bullet. It has a higher BC (0.440 BC) than the 'regular' 150 TTSX and appears to open wider. The video link hammer provided shows the difference. The loaded ammo is a bit pricey - $40/box. But if it shoots good and has powder that doesn't get crazy velocity fluctuations in response to temperature, I'd pay and simply hunt with it.

Interesting, they do make it clear they are using a different bullet in their loaded ammo for the 308 than the standard 150 TTSX. Learn something new everyday...

At the same time, it demonstrates why velocity is king in the monos. The only 338 160 TTSX I recovered was .75" across. That was a short range range shot and it opened really wide. Probably similar to what a 130 out of a 308 would do.

He's referring to the 150grn TTSX bullet specific the the Vortex 308 ammunition line. New this year, it's a different bullet designed to perform better at lower velocities also has a better bc than the 150TTSX component bullet.

David

I called Barnes this PM. No 150 gr TTSX Vortex component bullets. The conversation was a bit interesting. The Barnes tech said he wasnt aware of any such video, which I get, but he stated the Vortex bullet would open at longer distances but would not open any wider. The video clearly showed otherwise. Oh well.

I'll likely try the factory Vortex ammo.

I don't know why they don't transition most of their mono bullets to the softer design for easier opening and a bit better BC. That's why I shoot the 7mm 150 and the 308 168gr Etip.

The video showed the bullets being fired at 300 yards. If you were to fire both at 50 yards, they would likely have expanded to the same diameter.

The video shows the bullets being fired at 200 yards, not 300. The Barnes tech doing the shooting states this at about 3:38 in the video.

About 4:20 the older guy in the video says, "This is a component bullet shot into the gel and it just doesn't have the velocity in 308 to open up the way you want."

Barnes Tech: "Exactly"


David

Ah, thanks. My mistake. But the point still holds

While I am a big mono proponent and prefer both entrance and exit holes.

Here is another thought.
Wouldn't a Hornady 180gr or 165gr IL serve your purpose?

Perhaps at 50 yards.

100? 150?

David

The point is that the rep bwinters spoke to was trying to say that the softer VORTEX bullet isn’t designed to open wider than the component bullet if both expand to their max diameter.

I’ve no doubt that the softer bullet will expand wider once the component bullet slows down enough that it’s not achieving max diameter.

I agree, but based on that video it would appear that the 150 TTSX wasn't designed to open fully throughout typical hunting ranges at 308 velocities. Its easy for me to see why someone would conclude that the Vortex bullet would open wider based on that video.


David

Agreed. The 130 TTSX and the .308 Win are like PB & J.

Ham and eggs...

Unless I'm shooting bigger critters than WT's, a 130 gr. mono is about right for the .308. Any bullet that will blow thru a WT is heavy enough, IMO. And the lighter ones do fly faster.

Speed kills. Monos like speed. I try to go as light and fast as the application will allow.

DF

I personally can see no use for a monolithic in the 308. It's pretty easy on bullets. Two years ago I used a 308 to shoot a 6pt bull elk in the front leg knuckle with a 165 Hdy SPBT. The bullet center punched the ball joint and made it through both lungs. At the impact a loud "CRACK" echoed across the meadow from 200 yards away where it was standing. The bull dropped in its tracks. That may be the worst torture test you can ask of a bullet, and it worked fine.

A 165 Speer Hotcore exited a 7x7 bull the previous year.

Ever consider the Trophy Bonded Tip bullets? Might be your Huckleberry.

Yep I would use any CC 165 in a 308 before a mono. I like the 165 Federal TTB ...Kind of the best of all worlds

You know what works, and that's the gold std. And we use what we have confidence in.

That 135 CEB Raptor is an interesting alternative. It's impressive.

DF

The 140 Tipped TBBC has been working amazing for us this fall out of a 270 Win at 2900...

DF, I've just seen FAR too many monolithics fail over the years, including a TTSX from the 308 Win. IMO, they require really high velocity, and for me, enough BC to open at 550+ yards.

I doubt there's any monolithic I could run in the 308 which I'd use on a bull elk at 550 yards, but there are a veritable truck load of copper/lead bullets that I would be more than comfortable with.

That's one I plan on trying in my 270.

I got some 160's for my 7RM, may try RL-26. They do look good and have good reports so far.

Midway seems to be out of them. Must be a lot of demand.

DF

The Trophy Bonded Tip bullets seem to have more availability, like every other bullet, after the new year. Thinking maybe due to an ease up in production demand for loaded ammunition for hunting season. I’m going to pick up some 7mm 160’s for my 280AI as soon as availability is back. Hoping they come out with a 6.5 soon.

bwinters-

We've been using MRX, TTSX and now LRX since they came out - elk, deer and antelope. The results have been impressive, with no lost game and right around half the animals dropping straight down at the shot. None of the others have gone more than a few steps. No bullets recovered. Did not care for the old X bullets due to inconsistent results on coyotes, never used them or TSX on big game.

Daughter #1 uses the 130g TTSX at 3045fps in her .308. No elk or deer with it yet but it has been a hammer on antelope with the longest shot over 300 something over yards. She killed her mulie this year with her hubby's .300WSM and a Barnes 165g TTSX VOR-TX load - 192 lasered and down like a rock.

I've taken 5 mulies with 168g TTSX, 175g LRX and 180g MRX and all went straight down. Two went through lengthwise at close to 400 yards, with exits.

We use other bullets but 3 in my group use the TTSX exclusively. .257 Roberts, .308 Win .30-06, .300 WSM, .300 WM. All good.

130g or 150g for your .308, I don't think you'll have any complaints.

Tag

That's the rub for me. Although I did harvest a Cow Elk with no bones broken or hit, she wobbled about 35 yards a the shot & fell over. The 140 TTSX traversed the entire body from bow to stern. I am still on the fence on whether it's a good do-all choice.

At least they stated, "With few exceptions, park staff used rifles chambered in 308 Winchester firing 150/165 grain Barnes TSX bullets."

More good press for the 308 !!

I'm a believer but not very firm.

TIp of the hat to a fellow 7mm Weatherby whacker.

Many years ago a half dozen or so elk fell to 180 grain Sierra bullets from my .30-06, and an equal number of deer and antelope fell to 150 grain Sierra bullets from my .308 Win.

Also 4 bighorn rams, a Dall ram, a mountain caribou, a dozen or so mule deer, whitetail deer, pronghorn antelope, and my 2nd largest 6x6 bull elk each fell from a 117 grain Sierra bullet from my .257 Ackley. I have no problems what-so-ever with Sierra bullets.

The only mono bullets that I've tried are 168 and 180 grain Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets in my .300 Weatherby, and 270 and 300 grain TSX bullets in my .375 RUM. All have worked superbly on many of my hunts worldwide.

As has been also mentioned, mono bullets work better with higher velocity, and because monos don't shed a large portion of their weight like cup and cores do, so you can go down a weight from your normal cup and core bullets. I would wouldn't be afraid to use 130 grain TSX/TTSX bullets on deer/antelope or 150 grain TSX/TTSX bullets on elk with my .308 Win.

Agreed.

That's true, the park staff (Team Leaders) did use 308's for the most part, however there were several hundred volunteers during the culling years and the only constant was that the rifles had to use non-lead projectiles and they had to be a bore diameter of .257 or larger.

I've stated before that for the week I was able to be a volunteer elk-culler, my team leader was the person that was in charge of implementing, coordinating, and administering the TRNP elk-reduction effort. We were in on the very last week of culling at the end of the 1st yr. At that point they hadn't crunched any data yet, but, by a wide margin his favorite and the overwhelming favorite of the rest of the team leaders was for their volunteers to be shooting a 300Win mag. That's purely anecdotal just based upon their observations. That same bunch of team leaders hated everything .25 cal and really didn't like the 7-08 either as they'd had a few 7-08 induced wounded critter rodeos.

A person can go on and on about placement vs. head stamp vs. bullet construction, etc, etc, etc. However, at some point the 5-6 team leaders watching 3-4 different people every week kill dozens of elk for 4-mo has to start meaning something or at least raise an eyebrow, especially if you can get them to any manner of a consensus.

A 300 win mag or its twin the 300 wsm are never a bad choice.

I'm with Jordan on this one. The 130 ttsx or tsx turns the 308 into a 270. Look at the 300 yard ballistics its just fantastic IMO. IME after harvesting about 2 dozen game animals with the ttsx or tsx in 3 different calibers all but 2 or 3 did not require any tracking at all. I harvested an approx 180 pound whitetail this fall with the 308 130 tsx impact velocity an estimated 2,900 fps broke both shoulders and no bullet recovered. I've only recovered 1 160 grain ttsx in 338 federal expanded like the pictures after basically drilling a 2" hole through 30" of whitetail.

For my type of hunting they just plain work I don't hunt across canyons but out to 400 shoot em in the chest and see what happens. An added bonus is they have damaged a great deal less flesh on any of the animals I have harvested with them than any c&c bullet I've tried.

Good luck and shoot straight all.

https://hammerbullets.com/shop/ These. mtmuley