Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Ackley Improved = Ain't Improved

Nah!




I'm just "bush league" when it comes to those guys!


ya!


GWB

Very nice rifles GeeDub!

This is why you should never run with scissors 😎

I used an Ackley reamed out Mod 700 classic 35 Whelen for a tad over 20 years. I always used new, fireformed brass with my hunting loads, but never had a blown primer, etc. I used loads that were truly wildcat in speed/pressure, though you would never know it by the looks of the brass/primer pockets nor bolt lift. IF I was NOT legally blind in my left eye ( after 2002) I would still use it and its favored loads. all it takes is one time to hurt my "good eye". ha. So yeah, I love the Ackleys, the Gibbs, the Shermans...anything like that, but one has to gamble IF you want to gain much speed over the factory round. QuickLoad can help, as a good chronograph. No way to get extra speed without extra pressure...even I know that, ha. But they are a Handloaders Dream....and most of us get to handload/shoot/dream way more than we get to hunt.

Well, the common sense answer is "it depends". The cartridge life issues and other considerations have been well documented and the rifle looneyism exhibited on this site particularly makes this discussion almost a constant drumbeat at times. However, as far as AI rounds being actually "improved" depends on what case you start with.

I've seen several rounds "Ackley'd" over the years that benefitted very little by the addition of sharper shoulders, etc.... simply due to the fact they already had a fairly sharp shoulder to start with and moving it forward gained very little in powder capacity. On the other hand, a good example would be my 300 H&H Improved case, which goes from a gently sloping case to basically a 300 Weatherby case when fireformed, which is a fairly substantial increase in my case. This also results in a fair number of split cases the way I do it. My 223 AI gained a pretty substantial amount in velocity also and the accuracy of the rifle is amazing at times- especially considering I am the one shooting it.

I read in a Nosler reloading book one time about fireforming cases and the author- a well known gun writer and tester who I've forgotten his name at the moment- stated that fireforming can be some of the most accurate your rifle will ever shoot. He wasn't sure why this was so, but his experience- which was substantial- was that this was often the case. I have found this to be true with my rifles. My 300 H&H Improved, 223AI, and a couple others are amazingly accurate while fireforming. Slightly more even than when I load the formed cases and shoot them after. Has anyone else had this experience?

I've tried two 30-06 Improveds, with disappointing results. One was a 24" barrel, the other was a 26". I didn't have any of the new wonder powders though. I also had a 22" 280AI ( reamed out Mod 700 Mtn rifle) it was finicky, only liked two bullets, the Nosler 150BT and the Speer 160HC. I got 2950 with the Nosler and 2800 with the 160. Only about 50fps better than standard. It was a worthwhile experience, and I and a buddy killed lots of game with it. I wouldn't want one with less than 26" today. But that's just me. One great benefit I see of any Improved round is you can load to "optimum velocity" of the standard round but with less pressure. 50-100 fps over the standard would begin stretching primer pockets in the old 35 Whelen. With that long throated Remington I gained powder space by (a) seating the bullets way out and (b) Ackleyized. Sure, you can run them pretty hot, but, as said, at a risk. I did the same thing with a Mod 700 Classic (24"bbl) in .257 Roberts. It was my "first" experience with the Ackley. I had it set up right with a crush fit chamber for standard rounds. I seated the Hornady 120HP way out and "even used" Ackleys loads from his book! Wow! I never chronographed it, but it had to be humming, ha. It was a death ray on crows and deer in East Texas! Lots of fun. Needed? nah...I went on and played with the 25-06 ( very, very good 25 caliber round) and the "real sweetheart", the 257 Weatherby...."now that's a 25 caliber"! ha. My only gripe with the Weatherby is the soft Norma made cases. Federal wasn't much better back then. I didn't even try to make them from .264 WinMag WW cases, but that certainly is an option.

Sheister, to answer your last paragraph. I have very limited experience with improved cartridges, but have found this to be true when fireforming for my .375AI. At 100 yards, it was just making a ragged hole. Wish I had measured that 20 round group! memtb

I gave up on Ackley improved in 2002 after formed cases took too much effort and hot loads gave them loose primer pockets.

2002 with 3 other guys we built (4) 257 Roberts Ackley improved rifles on surplus Mauser actions with Lothar Walther heavy varmint barrels.
2012 I built a 257 Roberts Ackley improved rimmed rifle on a Uberti 1885 falling block action and shot 4 deer with it.
2015 I bought a 250 Krag Ackley reamer and have done nothing with it.
2018 I built a 280 Ackley rifle on a Win M70 action and shot a deer and 3 antelope
2018 I built a 280 Ackley rifle on a Sav 110 action
2018 I bought a 280 Ackley Kimber 84 rifle and shot a deer with it.

In 2018 I was back into Ackley improved.
What changed?
I could buy Nosler 280AI brass

Positive headspace on the form load, not so positive on the AI load depending on how you size the brass.

16bore, I was improving a belted case (.375 H&H), maybe the fireforming loads at over 1000 fps less velocity helped some. memtb

Could be I reckon. Don't The forming loads for a belted AI still have a crush on the shoulder?

16bore, If I understand what your saying....when fireforming “belted” cases, I think they chamber upon the belt. Maybe that helps in the forming process! Correct headspacing, etc.

It must be pretty simple.....or I would have screwed it up! memtb

Most belted brass is 0.195" or less.
Most factory belted rifles are headspaced at 0.200" or greater.
That is a lot of stretching.

I prefer to headspace my belted rifles to fit a lifetime purchase of brass.

I managed 10 reloadings, on my last batch of 100. I had one separated in front of the web.....tossed the other 99! memtb

Mines the same way. Federal 300 grain Partitions will stack shots on top of one another from my rifle. It’s nice to have an accurate factory load if I ever needed it.

Nominal minimum headspace on most belted case chambers is .220" Most belted brass will measure between .213" and .216". Very rarely, one will see brass at less than .212" and greater than .217" GD

Thanks greydog..

That was on the 8th.

They injected me with Fentanyl IVP 100mcgr and Propofol 360 mgs

The doctor warned me that for the rest of the day I should not make financial decisions, drive,.... he did not mention internet posts.

So... no internet and no heavy equipment! At least you have a valid alibi. When I make mistakes (often), that's me at my best and my only excuse is that I'm just not that smart. GD

I feed belted case Virgins,the same as any other...with a false shoulder and of course headspace same.

Hint.......................

Big Stick, Mr. Nobody, get yourself a lathe as fix those factory belted magnum headspace jobs to fit the brass.

$5k with DRO and 50 sq ft of shop space... you can do it.

Having a machine shop is like having a microwave. You will not be able to live without it.