Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles question : AR triggers

Basically bump firing.

I have a buddy that sets his Jewell triggers up so light, I can't fire one shot, it's always 2.

One more thing to consider is hammer spring power.

I hope basic designs have changed since I used a single stage trigger in an AR (a Timney circa 2000 IIRC), but one of the problems I had was that in order to get a pull light enough to be an improvement over a smooth GI trigger, the hammer spring had to be so light that I got ignition problems. I didn't notice it until I put it in an AR10 and it refused to light milsurp 308 100% of the time.

What you should do is get one lot of match grade ammo and chronograph a minimum of 10 rounds with the old trigger and then do the same with the new trigger. If there are ignition problems, it will show up as a increased standard deviation in velocity.

Lets hope it works for ya! For all the folks that have commented, that have gone down that road one way or another, I'd have thought some good info was out there for ya.

FWIW I think if you got a drop in single stage trigger, then 1 pound could work but as noted, you'd better be damn careful. IIRC, and I'm not going back to the top, this was a home gun, last thing I want on a home gun is a light trigger.... but that's your business.

Gotcha. Yes, don't want that for my uses.


I'm not planning to mess with it, at least not at this point.


Noted! Thank you.

I'll keep studying. Got more shooting to do tomorrow. See what additional input I might get here. Then some time after Christmas I'll stir the info, calculate a bit, and made a decision.

Tom

My now very old Timney wouldn't light them as it was from the factory with their "light" spring. Just saying, you may not have to mess with it for it to be too light.

Does changing the trigger alone change hammer fall? Seems counter-intuitive.

I've experienced that issue on DA revolvers when I had a gunsmith trying for the lightest possible SA pull leave me with a very good SA pull but a DA pull that wouldn't reliably fire the gun. He did it by trimming the hammer spring just a bit too much.

Tom

Just a guess here, but I'm betting either TOM doesn't actually have a trigger pull gauge, or it reads really light. That same faulty trigger gauge on some of the good AR triggers we use might read at 1 lb or less too...

"Changing out the trigger" on an AR is technically just a figure of speech for the purposes of our discussion. When you change an AR trigger, you are in reality replacing the entire fire control group.

Just got this all installed today, very crisp and possibly lighter than I'm comfortable with...the range will tell. It comes with a second spring, for heavier trigger pull.

Very impressed with the LaRue tho

Could be, but thats way to light for a lever gun or AR, as far as im concerned.

That's kinda my point - I suspect his lever gun trigger isn't actually that light either, he just thinks it is; the trigger weights he's talking about are pretty ridiculous for anything but a bench gun. It's probably not that much different than a good 3.5 lb single stage AR trigger, IMO.

Yep. I know what you were talking about and agree. There may be something wrong with his trigger pull gauge. You'd also think a guy would know the difference between 1 pound and 3.5 pounds too though, if that were the case. But, if he's had the same trigger pull gauge for a long time, then maybe just maybe he's got it in his mind that it's really 1 pound when it isn't.. Like I said though, if it is really 1 pound, that's far too light for any hunting rifle or AR in my book..

If you can't shoot a 3.5 pound trigger well because it's "too heavy", you don't have any business owning a gun.

As for mastering the controls on an AR, everyone of my kids can operate the safety on an AR without dropping the magazine, except the 5 year old, because I haven't started her on AR's yet. They are actually pretty intuitive. The only firearm I can think of that has the safety in a position analogous to the location of the AR's mag release is the FN Five-seveN. If TOM has ten thousand rounds through the 5-7, I could see how he's built up that muscle memory, other wise, I'm at a loss to see how that can't be over come with standard drills.

Story: I coach Juniors in 10M air. We have a kid that's a pretty good shooter, but has hit a plateau in his scores. He's been asking to have his Anschutz trigger adjusted lighter of late. The other coaches had indulged him previously. When he asked me I tried his trigger, and it is at the limit of safe. I advised him I wouldn't take it lower, but I would work with him to evaluate his technique on the SCATT (electronic trainer) and see if there was a technique "opportunity". I suspect there's an element of grabbing or slapping at the trigger when the sights are lined up. This runs counter to what we are teaching (getting the rifle to settle and adding weight gradually until it breaks).

I'm reading between the lines ie " It's got the accuracy .. from a bench with a bit of cheating it'll shoot under half inch with some loads, but I can't do it without the cheats and I can't do the cheats from field positions."

I think others have alluded to this nicely, but I'll come out and say it more plainly. It sounds like you have a marksmanship problem. I'm not sure what your "cheats" are (mechanical rest, remote trigger?), but if you have to rely on a lighter trigger than is typically used on an AR, it sounds like you're using light weight as a bandaid to compensate for poor technique (sorry but I think this is your better way forward).

That coupled with your confusion on the safety and mag release make me think you might have a "training" opportunity. Maybe you're not willing or able to put in the time...maybe you're right, the AR is not for you. I can tell you having shot the AR in it's most raw form (stock M16A2 with a burst trigger), and in it's most evolved forms, the AR today delivers great accuracy if you're willing/able to spend the time learning it's specific needs. If you live close to me or are willing to travel, I'd spend some time taking a look at what's going on. ...maybe even a SCATT session.

Good luck finding something that fills your needs safely.

Chris, im sure the op will appreciate your honest and sincere post. Hell, im shooting a new rifle right now at the range and its raining like a biotch. Reading your post makes me think there are probably a lot of us here that have developed bad habits along the way. I realize that every time i sit down at the bench, i have to consciously make an effort to make sure every shot is pulled off the same way every time. If not, there may be a flyer or 2 in the group. We see that a lot in our 10 shot groups in these challenges we have here. I think shooting the AR rifle with a good 2 stage trigger has helped my shooting overall. No matter what kind of rifle im shooting. Too bad the op doesnt want to expand his shooting skills and give a good 2 stage trigger and the ar platform a chance.

Chris

Thinking it was 91... M1A doubled in the practice match at Perry. Someone, as I had no clue what was going on, dropped emory cloth in there and drug it... never doubled again.

2 weeks at Perry, went from Expert to Master as the card was almost there when we got home.

Finally found a scale... almost 8 pounds... IIRC I either placed in the top 10 in quite a few NRA matches as Expert, or may have even placed top of class. I could google but don't much care.

Point being, you've made a good point!

Having shot some with triggers in ounces range, I have found I develop bad habits.
They allow, or even encourage, slapping. And it's not real noticeable, until you shoot
a normal trigger. Then you see the big jerk.
On the trigger.

no one has said AR Gold?

Damn, don't start another big stick thread...

Maybe we should call him "Flinch"?



(A politically correct term for "involuntary big jerk")