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Originally Posted by JOG
Originally Posted by liliysdad
Originally Posted by JOG
I'd love to use a weapon light, but as a non-LEO the liability is too much of a concern - I don't get to point my gun at people and then say, "nevermind". As such, a good ol' handheld flashlight works just dandy.



You do realize that you can use the light to identify the target without actually pointing the gun at someone.....right?


Frankly, that's ridiculous. Right, I'll respond to a threat without actually pointing a flashlight at things that are in the dark.

Regardless, it still can be considered brandishing. As a non-LEO my handgun has to stay concealed until the situation warrants.


I think he's referring to the fact that with today's lights you can illuminate someone while pointing the light (and gun) at the ground in front of them. You can't see as well as if it's pointed at them, but it's better than a swift kick in the nuts. That way if you were to ND at something that wasn't dangerous at least you wouldn't murder them, which is something.

But if a brandishing charge is a concern, you could carry a handheld and WML. I do.

Use one for when you don't know what's dangerous and the other for when you do know what's dangerous.


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your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
But don't pretend that you've got something figured out that every professional on the Earth doesn't.


Don't pretend a professional going into a situation proactively is the same as a homeowner being woken in the middle of the night. Also don't pretend that people who aren't professional shooters don't know anything about lights in the dark.

I disagree with your claim that any professional these days is using an 800-1000 lumen light. Sure, that's the popular trend that sells a lot of lights, but that's not the advice I've gotten from other professionals who actually do the door kicking. Is your professional better than my professional? I don't know and don't care; I'll stick with what works in my reality.

We do agree on strobes, I'm not arguing with that.

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Thanks for the comments. Not getting a strobe will simplify the controls and use of the weapons mounted light.

What about a laser on a self defense weapon? Essential? Useful?? Useless???


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I am going to go with gimmick.

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I've used a laser a little bit, and to me they are a distraction. This is likely a training issue and I believe that a laser could be put to use in many situations.

Me? I'm looking for a sight picture...


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Lasers are perhaps most useful on guns that do not have usable sights--S&W J-frames, for instance. But they also are useful on guns that you anticipate shooting from unorthodox shooting positions, or shooting weak-handed, or shooting at very close (arms length) ranges where you may be entangled and the gun cannot be brought to eye level.

They have a use, but that use is specialized and may not be for everyone. For myself, my serious guns have lasers on them because the technology exists, it works, I know how and when to use it, and I want every advantage I can get.

On the weapon mounted light question, I want a WML and all the lumens I can get with a lens that provides a good amount of "spill" for use indoors. If you want to use the light without pointing the gun at an unknown object, a powerful WML can bounce light off the floor with the gun at low-ready, or can bounce light off the ceiling with the muzzle pointed straight up. This indirect lighting can be useful for illuminating whole rooms and can substitute for a handheld light in circumstances where you may want to have one hand free.

Last edited by Oregon45; 12/14/18.
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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
But don't pretend that you've got something figured out that every professional on the Earth doesn't.


Don't pretend a professional going into a situation proactively is the same as a homeowner being woken in the middle of the night. Also don't pretend that people who aren't professional shooters don't know anything about lights in the dark.

I disagree with your claim that any professional these days is using an 800-1000 lumen light. Sure, that's the popular trend that sells a lot of lights, but that's not the advice I've gotten from other professionals who actually do the door kicking. Is your professional better than my professional? I don't know and don't care; I'll stick with what works in my reality.

We do agree on strobes, I'm not arguing with that.


I realize that you are a know it all, but I’ve never ever seen a case at night where I wanted Less light from my flashlight. I’ve experienced many times where I wanted more light. I’ve replaced my lesser light with Streamlight 1100 lumen lights and definately prefere more light.




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The "professional" viewpoint is useless to me. A couple years ago I heard a commotion out by the garage and I went out to investigate, flashlight in hand and handgun out of sight. I went around a corner and find a police officer waiting for me - unbeknownst to me the neighbor had called them. He might have been the coolest professional on earth, but I wouldn't have wanted to round that corner with a gun in my hand.

This summer an electrical transformer blew and the neighborhood lights went out. Again, I went out with a flashlight in hand and a handgun out of sight. My hope was to see if I could spot which transformer went out - my hope was that would speed up the repair after I called in. I came back around to the street side and a cruiser lit me up with a spotlight.

Similarly, my flashlight has found dogs, cats, neighbors, daughters, daughter's boyfriends, sons, etc. The animals and kids are not a problem, but any of the neighbors could give me legal grief if I brandished a gun.

Bluedreaux's advice it have a weapon light AND a separate flashlight is legitimate, but since I have to wait for the threat to be visible and real before I show a gun the scenario will likely be over before the weapon light is any value.


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Search with a hand held light, shoot with a weapon mounted light.

And I for one, like the strobe feature but not when I'm trying to shoot. I run at night and carry a little Streamlight ProTac 2L, it get's drivers attention and has turned 3 dogs away so far.
I'm also one that has never wished for less light.

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A proper weapon light pretty much renders the weapon invisible to anyone in front of it.

If, on my own property, I have a gun in my hand, it's not gonna mean anything to anyone. It is, after all, my property. A policeman on the front walk or on my porch is an entirely different matter than a policeman lurking in the dark near my garage.
See my post above about security lights.

Even before I did the external security lighting, No one came around un-noticed. Dogs and chickens...


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I like being able to give away my position.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
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I use two. Streamlight TLR1 and a Surefire 300X. Both are reliable, very bright and easy to use.


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I have been using a TLR-1 and I find it to be UBER reliable. Matter of fact, I find anything Streamlight has made to be UBER reliable.

I think everything SureFire puts out is an overpriced POS. On a good day.

That being said, I'm not sold on the weapon's light idea in general. I certainly don't oppose them, but I don't find them necessary day to day. Kicking in doors and yada, yada may be a different story.

I'm in the fortunate position where I've been able to kill tons of schit (legally) in the dark and I can tell you flat out that if you put a guy with a weapon's light against a guy wearing a headlamp, the headlamp wearer will win 10 times out of 10.


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Originally Posted by Oregon45
Lasers are perhaps most useful on guns that do not have usable sights--S&W J-frames, for instance.


642. That's the only gun I have one on.


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Originally Posted by deflave
I have been using a TLR-1 and I find it to be UBER reliable. Matter of fact, I find anything Streamlight has made to be UBER reliable.

I think everything SureFire puts out is an overpriced POS. On a good day.

That being said, I'm not sold on the weapon's light idea in general. I certainly don't oppose them, but I don't find them necessary day to day. Kicking in doors and yada, yada may be a different story.

I'm in the fortunate position where I've been able to kill tons of schit (legally) in the dark and I can tell you flat out that if you put a guy with a weapon's light against a guy wearing a headlamp, the headlamp wearer will win 10 times out of 10.


Edit: never mind.

Last edited by liliysdad; 12/23/18.
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Originally Posted by deflave
I have been using a TLR-1 and I find it to be UBER reliable. Matter of fact, I find anything Streamlight has made to be UBER reliable.

I think everything SureFire puts out is an overpriced POS. On a good day.

That being said, I'm not sold on the weapon's light idea in general. I certainly don't oppose them, but I don't find them necessary day to day. Kicking in doors and yada, yada may be a different story.

I'm in the fortunate position where I've been able to kill tons of schit (legally) in the dark and I can tell you flat out that if you put a guy with a weapon's light against a guy wearing a headlamp, the headlamp wearer will win 10 times out of 10.



Logical to me.



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It’s sure not a stretch of the imagination to think that you might sometime want to 1) See something in the dark 2) Point your gun at that thing, or at least have it in your hand and 3) Also do anything else like use a phone, open or shut a door, grab a kid, pick someone or something up.

Without a WML, good luck doing more than two of the three.

I don’t get what the aversion to them is. I just bought a TLR7 for $200 that weighs nearly nothing and adds almost nothing to the size of the gun. It adds zero to its carryability or concealability.

Don’t want the bad guy to know your position? Then...don’t turn it on you ninja, you.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Originally Posted by deflave
I have been using a TLR-1 and I find it to be UBER reliable. Matter of fact, I find anything Streamlight has made to be UBER reliable.

I think everything SureFire puts out is an overpriced POS. On a good day.

That being said, I'm not sold on the weapon's light idea in general. I certainly don't oppose them, but I don't find them necessary day to day. Kicking in doors and yada, yada may be a different story.

I'm in the fortunate position where I've been able to kill tons of schit (legally) in the dark and I can tell you flat out that if you put a guy with a weapon's light against a guy wearing a headlamp, the headlamp wearer will win 10 times out of 10.


Having been fortunate enough myself to hunt at night, I had very different results than you did. Head lamps were for looking, gun mounted lights were for shooting. When I look through a scope, my headlamp isn't pointed where I'm looking. But maybe my head is crooked.

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I have a Surefire X400 and a Surefire X400 ultra... one is mounted on a Glock 19 next to my bed and the other on a Volquartsen Scorpion 22lr... they do not have the strobe feature... I've killed all kinds of critters in the dark with the Volquartsen... unfortunately I haven't had the luck that Dave has with Streamlight products...


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