Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Another DBC Question for JB and others

I have a relatively new Ruger American Predator in 6.5 CM which I treated with DBC. I've shot it twice since I applied the DBC and it still seems to be fouling a lot.

When I applied DBC I inadvertently reversed the JB cleaning step with the copper removing step. What I mean by that is that I cleaned the bore normally, then used multiple cycles of Montana Xtreme Copper Killer to get all the copper out and then used the JB coated patch over a bore brush to get down to bare steel. It seemed like I got it down to bare steel but it still seems difficult to get all the copper off the lands since I'm still having to do multiple cycles with Copper Killer to get all the copper out.

I'm thinking about applying another coat of DBC. Here's my question: should I start all over and redo the whole process in the correct order including the JB paste per the instructions, or is it enough to remove all the copper and then apply another coat of DBC?

Also, I'm kind of surprised that this barrel fouls so much since the other Rugers I've purchased in the last few years have fouled very little.

Every now and again you get a barrel that is a fouler and DBC doen't fix it on the first install. If you are getting all the fouling out with apatch, copper remover and a nylon brush I wouldn't hesitate to skip the JB pastes step and just go ahead and apply the DBC again. The other side of that though is you shold look pretty hard at whether the barrel is fouling because it is rough or Just because. I had a PH 30-06 that fouled unmercifully with a beautiful looking bore. A second application of DBC in that rifle without the JB paste step cured it's bad habits.

One thing I forgot to mention. The DBC I used was several years old. It seemed OK and had been stored in a refrigerator but now I'm wondering if it could have degraded to some extent. I'll use new DBC for the second coat.

I have used older DBC without problems and with good results. I would reiterate though look carefully at the barreland if it isn't really smooth then do the JB step again. If there's any question err on the side of using the JB again. Consider clean it, JB it, reapply and cure it, then clean it without another JB step and reapply and cure.

Go to this thread 3rd post down,

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-do-you-get-rid-of-borecoat#Post13285056

What you say here to reapply is not what MD states. Still got a rifle packed in grease waiting for me to feel the need to abuse myself again from that stuff. 😳

The first cleaning cycle after curing the coating is typically a little grueling, as the DBC particulate is suspended in a type of glue, which seems to attract more fouling than bare steel. After that first post-cure cleaning, the bulld up of fouling and effort to remove it is all steeply downhill from there.

Clean is clean. Some rifles will shoot poorly with a very nice looking barrel if they are shooting poorly because of copper fouling. Some rifles will shoot poorly with Barnes bullets and not with guilding metal jackets or with GMXs/ETips because the pure copper of the Barnes is more prone to fouling. I have run into a few rifles, not many, that needed a second application of DBC to reduce fouling because they began to shoot poorly due to fouling much sooner than I was willing to tolerate.. That does not mean in any way shape or form that I think DBC had anything to do with making them shoot poorly after application.

The PH I mentioned was a rifle that would shoot decently when perfectly clean, but would foul unmercifully with Barnes bullets. Three shots down range were all it took sometimes to start it shooting bigger and bigger groups. The first application of DBC did not reduce fouling as much as it normally did with other rifles and did not prevent groups from opening up substantially after a few shots. I cleaned without removing the DBC that was in the barrel because I had confidence in the DBC. After the second application and cure cycle the rifle began to exhibit much longer maintenance of accuracy between cleanings, and showed much less copper lin the barrel.

I have DBCed somewhere in the neighborhood of fifty rifles successfully. That does not eliminate the possibility of me making a mistake and not getting a consistent coating od DBC full length in that particular barrel. It does however mean that I am practised enough to at least usually get it done right and obtain satisfactory results.

I define clean as removal of all powder fouling, removal of all copper fouling and removal of all solvent/cleaning fluids. Removal of everything initially involves the use of JB paste. Proof of clean for me requires the use of a powder solvent and clean patches following a scrubbing with a bronze brush. After that I use CR-10 to show me whether I have all the copper out. Once I am certain I have a clean barrel I will then patch it out a few times with alcohol and only after that has had time to evaporate will I apply DBC.

Absent a good bore scope the only way to judge if a barrel is clean is to use powder and copper solvents you have proven to work with techniques for cleaning that are effective and then carefully test for removal of fouling with clean patches and examine them carefully.

I kind of doubt that JBing a rifle will remove all of the DBC that's in a barrel without an awful lot of time on the cleaning rod. If you have DBC installed in a clean barrel and it still is not reducing fouling and the rifle is shooting poorly because of it, My experience tells me that it may be because the DBC wasn't properly mixed with it's vehicle (it wasn't shaken enough), it wasn't applied properly (the barrel was not clean, the application was not uniform), or perhaps but on the unlikely side the DBC itself was not of the proper concentration. I suppose that a given barrel could for some reason "absorb" more DBC, or for an equally hard to comprehend reason not absorb or permit adhesion of the DBC to the barrel or part of it. But if it's clean and dry that all seems awfully unlikely to me.

I define clean as removal of all powder fouling, removal of all copper fouling and removal of all solvent/cleaning fluids. Removal of everything initially involves the use of JB paste. Proof of clean for me requires the use of a powder solvent and clean patches following a scrubbing with a bronze brush. After that I use CR-10 to show me whether I have all the copper out. Once I am certain I have a clean barrel I will then patch it out a few times with alcohol and only after that has had time to evaporate will I apply DBC.

Did that, even the JB bore paste. Even though I abhor using it except when absolutely necessary.

Absent a good bore scope the only way to judge if a barrel is clean is to use powder and copper solvents you have proven to work with techniques for cleaning that are effective and then carefully test for removal of fouling with clean patches and examine them carefully.

Did that too patches, Bore Tech proof positive jags, bore scope etc. CR10 sitting for 5-6 min came out clean and white.


I kind of doubt that JBing a rifle will remove all of the DBC that's in a barrel without an awful lot of time on the cleaning rod. If you have DBC installed in a clean barrel and it still is not reducing fouling and the rifle is shooting poorly because of it, My experience tells me that it may be because the DBC wasn't properly mixed with it's vehicle (it wasn't shaken enough), it wasn't applied properly (the barrel was not clean, the application was not uniform), or perhaps but on the unlikely side the DBC itself was not of the proper concentration. I suppose that a given barrel could for some reason "absorb" more DBC, or for an equally hard to comprehend reason not absorb or permit adhesion of the DBC to the barrel or part of it. But if it's clean and dry that all seems awfully unlikely to me.

I followed the instructions given on the back of the blister pack it came in, plus what I could find here. But even here the instructions are all over the place. You say one thing and MD says another. While researching I came across MD’s 2008 article on UBC. Also ran into pages that said 4-8 hour dry time between coats, not 3 coats then 4 hours dry time. So who knows.
Maybe I did something wrong, maybe not. Was the product outdated, again don’t know as I said before there is no born on date to tell. Was the product bad, again I don’t know because 5 emails and 25 business days later the company refuses to answer as to whether or not they still support or manufacture the product at this time. Everything pertaining to Bore Coat has been purged from their site.
Until the company responds, no matter what you or anyone else thinks is nothing more than worthless conjecture and basically pissing into the wind. No company ownership or support to me means the product is junk.

You pointed out what you thought was a difference between how I do DBC and how JB does it. I answered it. It didn't accuse you of doing less than due diligence, but you sure make it look like you are worried about it.

Try just moving on. For one reason or another some thing just don't work for everyone and that's the way life is.

Well Miles, you say to move on it’s just life. Seems I have a perfectly good rifle (or was) in the safe with the bore packed in some fancy gun grease awaiting me to feel the need to abuse myself again, I can’t even look at the thing right now, shame isn’t it. Through out the last 2-3 months, no one has given an answer. There’s been a lot of finger pointing in my direction as being the sole cause do my idiocy or something like that as absolutely no one has ever had a problem.

I mean I have been told on here that JB bore paste only removes a micron from the bore, but there is no factory, gunsmith or a way in the entire world that can measure it. Then how the hell do you know it only removes a micron if it can’t be measured.

As I pointed out, the rumor from here is that it has a 1 year shelf life. Problem being if it does have an experation time, it should have a best if used by date or a born on date which it doesn’t. ( And according to my order history I received that on 3/3/2018) With neither of those it means it’s a non perishable and also lacking a lot # means it can’t be traced. Maybe the company can, but they won’t respond.
So am I a little pissed off, you bet. Do I still see a lot of differing answers as to how this stuff works or how it’s applied, you bet. I am just glad I didn’t apply this stuff to one of my expensive rifles as it’s easier to get on with life as you put it when it is a rifle that only cost a 5 buck raffle ticket. NOT.

Such is life, a company butt fuggs you without a kiss, sells a product that they will not acknowledge or support and it’s still the bestest thing on the market according to the net.

Well, now that we know you feel like you've been ass raped and need to vent, go ahead. I wouldn't expect much sympathy though because that's not the way the fire works. I have a 25-06 that Just pisses me off something awful because it won't shoot certain bullets decently but I just keep on going from one day to the next. Out of all the rifles I ever had, it's the one that just wouldn't come around in 60 years of messing with them. Life goes on and there's more rifle to mess with. You can either get over it or you can find out what happened and why and come back here and do us all a service by telling us.

I'll never be one to discount Swifty's experience. I think it's real; I just can't explain it.

To me, it would be hard to really know if you've cleaned a barrel down to raw steel without a bore scope.

I think DBC will be good as long as the medium hasn't evaporated, leaving a dry, hard substance.

I store mine in the refrig and it's in the newer metal bottles.

I buy denatured alcohol from the hdw store in pint containers. Don't need the little bottle that comes with DBC. The last couple of bottles I got were just DBC, no alcohol.

After a few shoot and clean cycles, fouling is diminished. Don't use brushes, just Wipe-Out or equivalent. A good soaking works for me. A couple of those and the Hawkeye shows a perfect bore with no fouling. I use Carb-Out for carbon deposits around the throat area.

DF

Thanks for the input Miles, but I still haven't seen an answer to my basic question which is: does it matter that I reversed the order of first cleaning with JB paste and then using an ammonia based solvent to remove the copper. If it doesn't matter, then I'll just do another coat of DBC and not bother with scrubbing with JB paste. I have some concern that scrubbing again with JB paste might remove some of the existing DBC.

This barrel really holds onto the copper and it takes me several days to get all of it out with Copper Killer so I was hoping to avoid any extra iterations of the process. I've probably applied DBC to half a dozen other rifles and never saw so much copper adhering on the second cleaning.

Not MIles, but I don't think the order of cleaning is a big deal as long as it's clean to the bare metal, properly degreased wtih alcohol.

DF

I thought I got it clean and I used alcohol, but I don't have a bore scope so I could only judge from what I could see at the end of the barrel.

I guess that I always have a copper remover in the bore after the JB to see if I have all the copper out. I wouldn't and havent redone the JB after I have installed DBCin a barrel and I wanted to reinstall. I just clean with a nylon brush and then CR-10 unti I only get clean patches the I clean the barrel with alcohol and reinstall after it's dry from the alcohol.

As far as order of cleaning prior to initial install, I don't see it makes a difference because the last thing you always have to do if you don't have a bore scope is the use the copper remover on a patch to be certain there is no more copper. Start where you want, but it has to end with a final check.

bowman,

The directions suggest using JB Compound first, partly because when I started experimenting with DBC (which was two names ago, when it was called Micro-Slick) that was the fastest way I found to gettting most copper and powder fouling out of the bore--which I determined by using a Hawkeye bore-scope.

The scope also determined that using JB on a cotton patch or two wrapped around a bore brush, in enough layers to require some effort to push and pull the brush through the bore, would get probably 98% of fouling out with 20 back-and-forth strokes. Then I also used the bore-scope to determine that a good ammonia-based solvent would get the rest of the visible copper-fouling out.

I don't think it's critical whether the solvent or JB is used first, but using JB first was indeed the fastest, easiest way to get bores down to bare steel. Reversing the order might leave more copper in the corners of the rifling, but I don't know, since I never tried using a solvent first, mostly because I'd also discovered that any bore that fouled enough to deserve DBC required JB Compound to get most the copper out in a reasonable amount of time.( I 've grown pretty weary reapplying various copper solvents I've tested over the years, because the bore-scope showed they weren't getting the copper out in one or two applications.)

As a result of all that work, I've since used the JB/solvent sequence exactly as just described on all the bores I DBC. So far it has worked probably 98% of the time with one cleaning/application sequence. The rare times it didn't, I've cleaned the bore with solvent, then degreased it again before applying another coat of DBC. So far that second application has worked every time.

Thanks Mule Deer, Miles and Dirtfarmer! I appreciate the input. As you say, getting all the copper out can be a chore, so I'm trying to do this as efficiently as possible. This morning I see that most of the copper is out of the barrel so I will finish the copper removal, degrease and apply another coat of DBC from my new bottle.

I've made it a habit to DBC new barrels before they get crudded up. So, to me it's not a big deal.

JB's done a lot more than I have and would go with his suggestions on JB first on a tight fitting patch.

I've not had to fight that level of copper fouling with preemptive DBC. Most of my barrels are premium.

DF

Yeah, the premium barrels don't foul much. I like them a lot but still use a number of rifles with factory barrels and unfortunately sometimes they foul.