Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Loading the 168 TTSX in .30-06

I'm getting ready to work up a load with the 168 TTSX in .30-06.

I know that the bullets like to jump. Like the .050 off the lands.

The book COAL max is 3.218.

I have several boxes of factory 168 VOR-TX cartridges. They average a COAL of 3.275. My rifle shoots the factory loads very close to MOA.

When I used my Stony Point/Hornady OAL gauge on my rifle, the TTSX was touching the lands at 3.400, so with a 0.050 jump yields a target COAL for my handloads of 3.350.

This is 0.075 longer than the factory load, and 0.132 longer than book COAL. Before I go and load up a bunch of these, do the above measurements sound like they are in the ballpark? The rifle has roughly 350 rounds through it so I don't think my throat is eroding.

Thoughts?

Why not use the factory COAL of 3.275 if they are shooting so well?

What powder are you using?

Work up some loads in .5 increments in batches of 3, loading up to book max, CAREFULLY. Then fire three rounds at 100 yards letting barrel cool between shot strings. See which group or 2 is the best, then reload 5 of those loads and verify it. This will give you an idea before blowing a bunch of money and time.

It's hard for some people to get what esox357 just posted, but I agree with him. My friend wants to load up hundreds of "unproven" ammo right off the bat. Your, "Before I go and load a bunch of these", statement reminded me of him. He had to pull 200 handloaded 30-06 bullets the other day because he was way over max loads in "his" rifle. He said he got the load data off the innanet . I told him that was his first mistake.

IN MY RIFLE

COAL is 3.273" with a TSX 168 grain. I load them with 57.0 grains of H414. I am getting right at 2,900 ft/sec out of them, and they shoot consistently at 0.75" three shot groups. They kill like a death ray on deer and moose. The bullets do not engage the rifling.

I start out with a snug bolt closure, and then seat the bullet deeper until it will close with no trouble, and then shove it in another quarter turn on the seating plunger. That's how I came to the measurement of 3.273". Maybe not very scientific, but the animals have never complained, and neither have I.

So, whatever 1/4 of 1/14" works out to be. (I think the screw has 14 turns to the inch threads.) seems close to 20 thousandths.

I shoot 168 gr TTSX bullets in my .300 Weatherby Vanguard. The determining factor for COAL of these cartridges is a few thousandths less than the inside dimension of my magazine.

My Kimber 84L has a very short bridge. That length is the determining factor for loaded rounds, if I ever expect to eject them still loaded. Turns out it is right at the first groove. Perfect for a light crimp, which also seems to help with groups.

H4350 is my favorite with the 168 TTSX in the 84L.

Definitely H4350 with the 168 TTSX. I also shoot the 168 VorTx. If youre happy with the way it shoots in your rifle, I'd suggest matching the length of their cartridges to start with. You can always experiment with a few rounds loaded .030" or so longer once you get where you want to be on velocity. I'd match the VorTx as best I could and then try small tweaks from there.

I just bought several boxes of VorTx and said "to heck with loading." I'll use my time elsewhere when I get 3/4 MOA and adequate consistency from factory ammo in a low-volume rifle.

Barnes lists max charge of 55.5 grains of H4350.

I've seen some people pushing that limit by quite a bit.

What are y'all using as a H4350 charge with the 168 TTSX for the .30-06?

While I'm pretty happy with the VOR-TX factory load, I do want to try and tweak it a bit and get inside 1 MOA. That's what all the fun is about!

Just use the Barnes data, just because people are pushing it doesn't mean they know what they're doing or care about anything other than velocity (including safety, health, and longevity of their rifle).

Keep in mind that most '06 data is kept to 58,000 PSI. For modern guns, that's an irrelevant standard. If a 270 Win or a .300 WSM can run 65,000 PSI, why can't an '06 on the same action?

I understand that, but how does one know when they've SAFELY reached maximum following that route since none of the powder or bullet company's ballistic labs go past 60,000 PSI maximum for the .30-06?

Reading brass and primers (you're usually over 70k by the time signs appear).

I have gotten very good accuracy with 168 grain Triple Shocks with either 59.5 grains of RL19 or 57.0 grains of H4350 in Remington nickeled cases with WLR primers. Neither of these loads is a burner, both of them averaging right about 2850.

Here's a comparison of the next closest cartridges to the '06 that both operate at 65,000 PSI, using magnum primers mind you, if you notice, even at 65k PSI, the the '06 isn't leaving much velocity on the table compared to the RCM and SAUM, and nothing to the '06 AI.
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.30-06 (Hodgdon Data Maximum Loads)

primer: WLR

165 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-4350 59.0 2,938
Remarks: COL: 3.300"; 49,400 cup

168 Hornady HPBT Hodgdon H-4350 59.0 2,897
Remarks: COL: 3.230"; 48,100 cup

165 Hornady GMX Hodgdon H-4350 55.4 2781
Remarks: COL: 3.225"; 59,200 psi
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.30-06 Springfield (Barnes Reloading Manual #4)

primer: Federal 210

165 Barnes TSX BT, MRX BT or Banded Solid Spitzer Hodgdon H-4350 55.5 2825

Remarks: maximum; COAL: TSX BT 3.218", MRX BT 3.205"; Banded Solid Spitzer 3.225"
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.300 RCM / .300 Ruger Compact Magnum (Hodgdon Data)

primer: Winchester LRM

165 Barnes TSX Hodgdon H-4350 62.5 2979
Remarks: max load; compressed; COL: 2.800"; 62,700 psi

168 Sierra HPBT Hodgdon H-4350 61.0 2947
Remarks: max load; COL: 2.820"; 61,200 psi
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.300 Remington SAUM (Hodgdon Data Maximum Loads)

primer: Remington 9 1/2M

165 Nosler Partition Hodgdon H-4350 63.0 2,997
Remarks: 62,900 psi

168 Sierra HPBT Hodgdon H-4350 62.5 2,985
Remarks: 63,000 psi
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.30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved - 165/168 Grain (Using Nosler Bullets)

Primer: WLR

165 Nosler IMR IMR-4350 59.0 2,940
Remarks: maximum load
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The point is not to attempt to hit 65,000 PSI when you have no way of knowing what pressure you're running. The point is just to be aware that your rifle won't blow up if you go a half grain over what the book says. Statements like this don't necessarily reflect that reality:

"Just use the Barnes data, just because people are pushing it doesn't mean they know what they're doing or care about anything other than velocity (including safety, health, and longevity of their rifle)."

Is it not good advice to err on the side of caution? Do you not think there's any truth to my statement?

There are a disturbing amount of people on this site who brag about .300 WSM velocities out of an '06 and similar situations using other cartridges with "no pressure or "no signs of pressure" that are always more than happy and even proud to share their data with whoever, including beginning reloaders, plus there's the closet hot-rodders, the others who don't wanna get flamed so they'll send crazy data in pm's instead.

I guess the problem is I care too much, even about people I don't know. Also, every time a reloader focks up and has a kaboom by being a dumbazz, they make us ALL look like idiots in the eyes of our opposition, who's taking notes at every occurence mind you, just my two cents, rant over.

I guess it depends on the loader..My current load for my 30-378 is a full 4 grains over barnes max, my batch of brass is on its 7th loading cycle.

In contrast, some of the factory loaded 30-378 i've shot has blown primers at worst and loose pockets at best after the first shot..am I being reckless? (rhetorical question).

I also see your point, I aint gonna be recommending my load to guys on the WWW.

Exactly Rosco. I have a rifle that shoots great and operates perfectly with more than a full grain over "Book." I have one that shows significant pressure more than 2 grains UNDER book max. Lawyers like to suggest that loading over book max will cause the sky to fall and your rifle to explode. Look at the loads for the .260 Remington in the Berger manual. They're a total joke. If you thought the Sierra manual was bad, look at the Berger. Anyway, When I see the 30-06 loads listed at 58,000PSI, or .260 Loads listed at 57,000PSI (Some of the Western Powder .260 data) It isn't hard to see that I have room to work above that level. Watch velocity and use your head. If 57,000PSI gives me 2750 fps then I'm not going to blow up my gun if I find an accurate load that runs 2775fps. Just look at the huge discrepancy between the different loading manuals. The data presented is accurate under the circumstances of the folks developing the book data. It is only a guideline for my rifle. Start low & work up. Cross reference data. Watch your velocity (keeping barrel length in mind) and be smart.

Sorry, I had ran into another hot rodder at the GS yesterday, bragging about how he uses "hot loads" at least 5 grains over max in all his firearms, and also claiming he's using CCI 300 primers for his rifles. He got me fired up, especially since he can't tell the difference between Large Rifle and Large Pistol primers yet he feels the need to make "hot loads" on purpose, plus, he doesn't own a chronograph because he "doesn't need one." So, once again, my apologies for taking some of that out on you.

Wow. No worries.

You just have to laugh at those dumbasses and shake your head. The depths of human stupidity never cease to amaze. I think that's the guy that causes ridiculous warning labels to be put on everything.

I just had a guy bring me a Sako 30-06 with a blown extractor, I have replaced a few so no big deal , when I pulled the bolt , I knew what happened, ask if he had ammo with him , "Sure". Reached in the pouch of his gun case and pulled a box marked 165 accubond / 61 gr Imr 4350, I pulled two of the bullets , weighed the powder, 63 gr. Of powder , not hot loads , Dangerous loads . He claimed to have loaded 200 of said rounds , in mixed brass, lord must love him . He refused to pull the bullets , I refused to fix . I couldn't agree more with above comments , start with starting load suggestions, work up! If the factory loads shoot great , use the same seating depth. Most Monos like to jump.