Some time back - I was inquiring on destinations in Africa in this forum and the notion was brought up that it is foolish to bring your own rifle to Africa. For years I have been saving up for a hunt and also because I did not want to be known as "sport" I have been practicing with my two model 70's a 375 H&H and occasionally with my 458wm which is the most beautiful rifle I own.
It seemed strange that on the hunt of a life you would not have your own rifle, scope and ammo that you were familiar with. Is this still the general consensus that your travel part of the trip will be much easier to leave the rifle at home - if this is the case, do you rent one from the PH and do you get to practice a bit with it? I have no desire to be hassled in airports on my vacation.
If so I think I will keep my 375 because I can use it for Elk here in the US and it is the same dimensions as the 458, which if it is never going to be used, I should just sell it.
I took pictures of the safe queen just to get some opinions here, I had loaded my A Frames and NorthFork solids both in 450g, and the load development was punishing on my shoulder. I also have the powder and bullets for 45/70 loads but I am starting to sell off things I dont use. Thanks for any advice
The rifle was a Pre 64 Model 70 bought in 2015 with some of the modern improvements like a better trigger, but had what people liked in the pre 64 - it is a Cabela's 50th anniversary.
Use a good travel agent that specializes in hunters with firearms. The agent will guide you through the hoops. Take your own gun. I've been twice and used Steve Turner (Travel with Guns) both times.
Go through a travel agent, like Gracey Travel. and it will make your trip infinitely easier. It is worth the extra money, I promise you. The fact that Gracey has people on the ground in RSA is priceless. Your outfitter will have the info you need, also.
Just a few months ago, I used Gracey to transit RSA and hunt Zambia. Couldn't have gone smoother.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Second the recommendation on Gracy. For the past two African hunts, they have arranged everything, from air travel to gun permits to meet-and-greet services. Wouldn't consider travelling to Africa again without them!
I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
Since 1988 I've taken twenty-four trips to Africa (Once to SA; once to Zambia; twenty-two to Zimbabwe) to hunt...Have always taken my own rifle/s. Never had any problems going, or coming with firearms. IMO, I never felt the need for "Meet/greet." Obviously, many travelers do utilize such service and are very pleased with the results. Good hunting...
We had someone in Johannesburg handle the permits. They made all the arrangements, met us at the airport and breezed us through the arrival process. Then they transported us to our hotel. It was cheap and easy.
Fwiw, (and ONLY in my opinion) trying to navigate the bureaucracy in a 3rd World nation, W/O "local expertise", is about as much fun as doing surgery upon yourself.
When I travel abroad, I always DO spend the small amount of money, for the help of a "local expert". (Being "stuck at customs" on an OCONUS airport, W/O help, can cost you numerous hours/days, "headaches" & that's far from how I choose to spend my limited time abroad.)
Bring your own rifle(s)! I never understood why someone would want to use a loaner rifle that they don't know if it will fit you, scope mounted too far forward or worse too far back. I remember reading a Craig Boddington article where he used a "loaner" in Spain for some sort of exotic sheep where the stock was taped together in several places. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Getting ready for my 6th safari. Like you, a very big part of the experience has always been getting my loads and rifles ready. Have always used my own rifles and will do so again in September.
I’ve used several services for both travel and rifle permit arrangements. I’m using Steve Turner Travel With Guns for the second time and would recommend his agency.
BTW, a significant component of my hunts has been the memories of the hunts, especially enhanced by the rifles, ammo and shooting - with my own guns!! Take your own by all means.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
15 African Safaris plus a hunt in Poland and New Caledonia. Used my rifle for the first 7 Safaris, camp rifles for everything else. No complaints but then again I don’t care what I use as long as I hits where I aim. I figure I have saved at least $3000 over the years on permits and meet and greet fees. And if the outfitter you use has crap firearms to loan/rent- YOU ARE HUNTING WITH THE WRONG OUTFITTER! As an aside, I have taken elephants, buffaloes,, crocs, hippos, leopard, and tons of expensive plains game-and not on game farms. A rifle is a hammer and the game is a nail. I don’t care what I hit it with. I am a hunter, not a gun crank. YMMV
I suggest that you go back & read my post # 13429908, before you fail to get "local help" with getting through Customs and Immigration at a 3rd World airport. (I learned my lesson in a Latin American nation in 1990, when I took a cased/unloaded .50 caliber flintlock TN Mountain Rifle into the country. - Flintlock firearmss are NOT considered to be either "firearms" or "dangerous weapons", according to the laws of that nation. = Nonetheless, I ran up on a Customs officer, who didn't know the law. It took me over 5 HOURS to get out of the airport with my rifle/luggage, - As a result of that delay, I missed an important staff meeting with a Brigadier General & "his special staff". = The "flag" was NOT "amused".)
Been to Africa 4 times in 4 different countries and used Steve Turner of Travel with Guns. They arranged flights, meets at airports, overnight lodging, gun permits, transfers.... everything. They are great and I highly recommend them. Tried to use another outfit mentioned here but they didn't come through in a timely manner. Steve's folks were up and going and had our flights and everything done in 48 hours.
Hunted in Namibia last 2 years. Flew into J'berg with my rifles both times. First time did not use rifle permit service and the SAP officers blatantly ignored us and had to wait until all PH and rifle services had cleared their clients only to have the 3 SAP officers decide that they needed to take 15-20 minute break while sitting their looking at us but would not process our rifles-so it took over 1 hour to clear rifles. Flight was 2.5 hours late so that extra 1 hour at the end of the flight was a really long 60 minutes.
This year I used Henry Rifle services and got rifles cleared within 10 minutes. Another client of Henry Rifle services had the wrong serial # on his Form 4457 and it started out as a disaster, but Anna from Henry Rifle service was able to resolve the problem and SAP released the rifle after a few minutes of discussion.
Well worth the cost of having Henry's Rifle service get my rifle import permit preapproved.
I have made 4 hunting trips to Africa, and taken my rifles, or bows, each time.
First two times, I endured the Joburg circus at the airport- very frustrating, but not nearly as bad as it was to become in later years. Next two times, I used Gracy Travel, to arrange everything- air travel, lodging, SAPS permits, Meet and Greet at the airport, the works. Best move I could have made! It simply made the entire trip trouble-free and enjoyable.
Yes, it would be less hassle not to take your own firearms. But- you have spent days getting familiar with your own, possibly loaded all your own ammo, sighted in your scopes, etc.- why chance an expensive hunt with using an unfamiliar firearm?
I made the mistake, once, of not taking my own rifle on a hunt- it was a Beceite Ibex hunt in eastern Spain. I decided to use the outfitter's rifle, and after several days, we spotted a good Ibex, and began a stalk. When I went to chamber a round, it would not do so! The ejector button in the enclosed bolt face would not retract and allow a round to chamber. The outfitter fiddled with it for a while, then we went driving around the countryside trying to find someone who knew how to work on this particular rifle, which was totally foreign to me. Finally, we met up with an acquaintance, who loaned us his Blaser. I ended getting an Ibex, but the whole experience taught me a lesson.
I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
Are you going to sight see too? If so, use the outfitters guns, otherwise storage cost will eat your wallet up very fast and may require an overnight at JNB that you were not planning on. Just hunting only it does not matter. As a reminder some outfitters have "nice" guns. One in particluar has Rigby guns available for use. Several others that I know of have Blaser guns.
Just make sure, that within "Southern Africa" you are flying a South African Airway, or subsidiary airline. And what ever you do don't book a BA flight in "Southern Africa" with a firearm, that's really Comair and they don't carry firearms. BA long haul international flights are no problem carrying a firearm just very expensive.
Also, you cannot fly a USA carrier to London and have your firearm changed to another airline, except United to SAA.
I have done 6 trips to Africa (SA, Zimbabwe, and Mozambique)along with trips to New Zealand, Azerbaijan, and multiple trips to Canada, taking my own rifle or rifles on each of them.
On my first trip, 4 of us went to South Africa, each with a rifle, and we didn't know about the rifle permit/meet and greet services, but luckily we did not have any problems or a long wait in Jo'berg. On all my subsequent trips I used Gracy Travel and their rifle permit/meet and greet service. Their service has been very helpful in getting through customs and in picking up my rifle(s) in Jo'berg. One time it even saved me from missing an in-country SA flight.
Some African countries will not allow you to bring as many cartridges into their country as other countries will. Mozambique only allows 40 rounds per rifle.
"And if the outfitter you use has crap firearms to loan/rent- YOU ARE HUNTING WITH THE WRONG OUTFITTER!" Before you get to camp, how do you know for sure what condition the outfitter's rifles are? On my last hunt in Mozambique, there was another hunter in camp that had booked a $20k leopard and sable hunt and had chosen to use the outfitter's rifle. This hunter was from a Midwestern state, and bragged how he had made one shot kills on "hunts out west" at 300 yards with his muzzleloader and at 600 yards with his rifle. The Outfitter had a .30-06 and a .375 H&H that he and his PHs carried. Both rifles look to be OK.
The hunter chose to use the .375, but when he checked its zero, they discovered that the scope bases were loose. The Outfitter's mechanic had made off with most of the Outfitter's tool, and no one had the right bit to tighten the scope screws. The hunter then wanted to borrow my .300 Weatherby that I had custom built.
"Are you going to sight see too? If so, use the outfitters guns, otherwise storage cost will eat your wallet up very fast and my require an overnight at JNB that you were not planning on." On my New Zealand trip I hunted for a week, then we rented a car and toured NZ for another 2 weeks. New Zealand has typical English weird gun laws, so I pre-arranged to store my rifle with my Outfitter. He agreed to store my rifle for me free, and he even suggested we spend our last night, at the end of our touring, at his lodge...all at no extra charge.
Next August I will be hunting in Namibia. I was to make the trip this past August but health problems in our family forced me to cancel. I was scheduled to fly from Spokane, WA to Seattle, pick up my guns there, then re-check them aboard a Condor Airlines flight to Frankfort Germany and after an 8 hour layover there, fly direct to Windhoek, Namibia. This apparently was the preferred route as opposed to going from here to Atlanta to JoBerg, having a days layover there and then re-checking the guns in Jo Berg and going to Windhoek.
Does this routing sound reasonable or are there better routes. I would like to only have to check my rifle once going and coming, not multiple times. Opinions or advice ?
I was scheduled to fly from Spokane, WA to Seattle, pick up my guns there, then re-check them aboard a Condor Airlines flight to Frankfort Germany and after an 8 hour layover there, fly direct to Windhoek, Namibia. This apparently was the preferred route as opposed to going from here to Atlanta to JoBerg, having a days layover there and then re-checking the guns in Jo Berg and going to Windhoek.
Does this routing sound reasonable or are there better routes. I would like to only have to check my rifle once going and coming, not multiple times. Opinions or advice ?
Rolly:
AVOID AIR NAMIBIA AT ALL COSTS if that is the airline you were planning on using from Frankfurt into Windhoek. Air Namibia has always had a bad problem with cancelling flights, both their international, regional and domestic, due to financial problems like unable to pay their fuel bills and contract maintenance. It has gotten even WORSE the past few years. A few weeks ago they were in contract negotiations with the company they are leasing their three Airbus aircraft they use for the long haul Frankfurt/Windhoek route with the goal of canceling the contract/aircraft and declaring bankruptcy for the entire airline. This Aug, our Air Namibia flight from Gaborone to Windhoek was canceled and we nearly missed our flight home from Windhoek the next day.
Condor Airlines - be VERY sure they allow firearms! The last info I had was they DON'T. They could have changed that but absolutely double check and be 100% sure.
Only other ways to get to Windhoek without going through Johannesburg - Qatar Air via Doha Qatar and direct into/out of Windhoek 3-days a week. Delta/KLM direct to/from Amsterdam 3-days a week and British Airways via London. Be careful with BA, the flight to/from Windhoek runs out of Gatwick and most other international flights arrive/depart Heathrow (or vice versa) You have to claim baggage and firearms, change airports and re-check. Problem is you CAN'T carry your firearms or ammo. You have get transit permits and hire a lic transfer agent and last time I checked it cost $600 for two rifle cases EACH WAY.
Wife and I did the Delta/KLM route this past Aug. You do have to get a transit permit to go through Amsterdam. You get the form off the KLM website. Six pages but the instructions are very clear and easy. Fill it out and email it in at LEAST 8 WEEKS before your flight. They will email your permit back a few days before your flight. Your luggage and rifle cases will be checked all the way through. If you have a long layover, you can get a day room at the Yotel right in the secure area of the airport. If you have a short layover they also offer a shower booth.
In my opine - by all means take your personal firearms while you can. Yes, they do add complications and you do have to be extra careful in your planning and they do limit your movements within the various countries if you want to do additional sightseeing, but it is all doable with some very good pre-planning. My personal "rule of thumb" is NEVER book less than a 4 hour layover in an international airport or if you have to change airlines or clear immigration/custom. You might make your flights, but the tighter the connection time the less likely your luggage and especially firearms will make your flights. This includes re-entering the US. The primary reason is firearms require special handling and have to basically be signed for by everyone who touches the cases and in non-US countries, either police or special security personnel are required to transport or store between flights.
I'm retired military. Traveled to 68 counties total in my mil life and 30+ safaris with firearms in the past 12-years.
If I knew that the rifles available for use were quality and accurate, I would use them. For instance, my last PH in Namibia was a bit of a gun crank like me. Would not bring a rifle to hunt with him again, just use one there and save the hassle
If I knew that the rifles available for use were quality and accurate, I would use them. For instance, my last PH in Namibia was a bit of a gun crank like me. Would not bring a rifle to hunt with him again, just use one there and save the hassle
+1
After our last trip (RSA 10/18) I would only rent. First trip -- take 'em and learn. Remember LOTS of tip money, unless you are comfortable with the European approach. ("Get stuffed, you!")
Just for grins, since I hadn't looked up British Airways direct flights from London into Windhoek in awhile, I though I'd check them out.
NOPE, not any longer. BA does fly into J'berg but then you have to transfer to either Comair (won't carry firearms - period), South African Airlines (charge an extra fee for firearms), South African Airlink or Express (extra fee for firearms) or Air Namibia (extra fee for firearms and hope your flight doesn't get cancelled).
I also checked Condor Air and it seems they do alow firearms now. I'd still be a bit leery about flying them as they are "part of the Thomas Cook Group" and Thomas Cook just went tits up a few weeks ago and left 600k travelers stranded.
163bc....I won't go without my own rifle...You won't be used to the ones they have and a lot are not in that great of shape..3 trips,,no big deal ..Just check before you go..
Next August I will be hunting in Namibia. I was to make the trip this past August but health problems in our family forced me to cancel. I was scheduled to fly from Spokane, WA to Seattle, pick up my guns there, then re-check them aboard a Condor Airlines flight to Frankfort Germany and after an 8 hour layover there, fly direct to Windhoek, Namibia. This apparently was the preferred route as opposed to going from here to Atlanta to JoBerg, having a days layover there and then re-checking the guns in Jo Berg and going to Windhoek.
Does this routing sound reasonable or are there better routes. I would like to only have to check my rifle once going and coming, not multiple times. Opinions or advice ?
In 15 when we went we did the Condor route USA to Frankfurt then Frankfurt to Windhoek. German customs was great both going and coming. Condor itself in Frankfurt was an absolute nightmare both going and coming. Your mileage of course may vary, but I would definitely budget a bunch of time to argue with the SOB's at the counter if you want your rifles to actually travel with you on the plane.
