Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Have you used the .223 for deer/antelope?

My young son has and it worked terrible. Maybe it was the bullets, but it took 4 shots potential killing shots before the deer finally just bled out and fell down. Very little damage inside. The bullets was a 64g Winchester Power Point. I have bought some TTSX's to try from the good result mentioned on the fire. My son used a .257 Roberts this year and killed the deer with one shot. The only reason I am considering the .223 again is because my daughter can hunt this coming year.

The 223 is capable of creating damage that makes most 30/06’s blush. There is no issue in the biggest of deer with a 77gr TMK inserted in the lungs. You can expect 20’ish inches of penetration, even going through a shoulder, with a three to four inch wide wound channel. If you hit a shoulder, it’s pretty much gone.

I’m going to go heavily against the grain here. With hunting I have personally shot around 80 deer with 223/5.56mm’s, have been physically present (behind the spotting scope) for at least double that many. Using all the normal bigger rounds and including culling, well into four digits. A lot of these deer had field autopsies completed. I have seen “rodeos” with every single caliber with a multitude of bullets. Some deer just die hard. I have put multiple rounds in the chest of deer (usually bucks) with 243’s, 270’s, 7-08, 308, 7mm RM, 300 WM, 300 RUM, 338L, etc. All we’re good shots hitting both lungs.
Yet the buck with the 300 RUM took two rounds center chest at less than 250 yards, and nearly got a third because he just continued to chase a doe. Both exit wound were baseball sized, and both were placed correctly. A smallish 8pt took two rounds to the lungs at 280 yards from 95gr NBT’s, fell in a river and was still alive 5 minutes later. A decent 11pt took three rounds of 178gr Amax from a 300WM. This combo creates horrific wound channels yet he lived for almost ten minutes and it wasn’t until the CNS was cut that he stopped A doe took 4 rounds of Winchester 140gr CT 270WSM at 400 yards. She fell at every shot, then got back up, shot, fell, got up, etc. All bullets hit both lungs, performed as designed, and exited. There was nothing left of the front half. Exit wounds were 2-4”, and she still stumbled out of sight after the fourth hit. Multiples and multiples of deer have taken 2-4 rounds of TSX/TTSX/GMX/etc. One yearling button buck took four 139gr GMX’s in the chest from a 7-08 at 200 yards. All rounds hit lungs, and he still had to have a finisher a couple minutes later when we walked to it.


The point is that if you shoot enough deer with ANY chambering and bullet you will eventually run into a deer that just doesn’t want to die. However, way more “rodeos” have happened with hard, deep penetrating bullets than with soft bullets that penetrate deep enough to reach the chest and create wide wound channels. It’s not even close in ratio.


The 223 is capable of creating damage that makes most 30/06’s blush. There is no issue in the biggest of deer with a 77gr TMK inserted in the lungs. You can expect 20’ish inches of penetration, even going through a shoulder, with a three to four inch wide wound channel. If you hit a shoulder, it’s pretty much gone.

This buck was at 110yrds quartering to.



The 77gr TMK centered the near shoulder, through ribs, both, lungs, and was stopped under the hide behind the last rib. About 22” of penetration after hitting shoulder and ribs.




The recovered bullet.





This mule deer was at 303 yards.





Through the shoulder/leg knuckle, ribs, lungs, caught in the offside skin behind the last rib. Again- 20-22 inches of penetration.





This one was around 100 yards as well. Shoulder, ribs, lungs, ribs, exit.







No one walks up and says- “that’s marginal”. Quite the opposite. One person was very aggressive about 223’s being too small. After seeing several deer killed with the TMK and the wounds, he knows says it’s does too much damage and wastes meat.....




Worried about the Texas heart shot? Don’t be. Put it into the tailbone or hip and the deer drops. Like mist all rear ended shots regardless of bullet or caliber, it’s a stoping shot and requires a finisher. I was with someone that did just that a couple days ago with a 77gr TMK at just over 200 yards. First shot broke near side shoulder and lung. The buck stumbled 20-30 feet and stopped facing away. Second shot hit 3/4” below the head of the left femur (ball joint) completely shattering it, traveled just to the left of the right joint breaking it, and stopped about an inch from exiting the offside hip. The deer collapsed. Having done read shots with nearly every make and model of bullet, if I have to take that shot- I want a bullet that does as much damage as possible regardless of caliber or cartridge. I have had multiple TSX’s just miss the spine and fail to drop the animal. Everyone that had taken an Amax/ELD-M, TMK, Berger, etc. has collapsed immediately.





I have zero issues with any deer walking- 80lb southern does, to 300lb northern bucks out to 550-600’ish yards with 75gr Speer Gold Dots, 77gr TMK’s, 75gr ELD-M’s, etc. 223’s encourage surgical shooting, allow anyone to spot their own impacts, and used with the right bullets will cause more damage than anyone wants. For new hunters, I would always rather them use a 223 with one of the above bullets.




TTSX’s kill fine, but they create relatively small wound channels. I would highly suggest 62gr Federal Fusion, and if your barrel is 8” twist or better- 75gr Speer Gold Dot or Blackhills 77gr TMK. Both, vutvthe TMK specifically can and will create massive damage especially if bones are hit.

Form: Any experiences with the 257 weatherby and 100gr Hornady Interlocks ? I've taken around fifty deer with this round and not one has ever taken a step. Ranges from 50-350 yards or so, J

FormDUDE, You're not going against the grain much with that post...you actually seem to be in agreement with most folks here, for the most part.

I especially agree with your assessment of really hard bullets causing rodeos...unless they hit bone, I have not seen a bullet worse for hunting than a FMJ or a mono at turtle speed.

I've lost count of the amount of deer and antelope that I've killed or been in on killing with the 223, while also using it on a few elk. The 223 with good bullets and proper placement seems to kill stuff just as well as anything else, and proper placement with a 223 is a lot easier to achieve than with big boomers.

What about deer at twenty yards?

Suddenly the 6.5 Creedmoor feels like a big rifle!

What about deer at twenty yards?

The 55 solid base worked great for me. I've got a 172 lb. dressed 8 point hanging on the wall that fell to one of those through the lungs. Range 125 yards, quartering away, bang, flop. Bullet hit at last rib on left side and was recovered, well mushroomed under the hide near the right shoulder.

I imagine it would work well on that shot. Placement is everything, but placement requires opportunity. Most of my shots, say over 80%, have been head/neck because that's all that is visible. I'm hunting heavy cover, short range most of the time. The shots come when the deer detect something out of place and pop their heads up above the brush or around the side of a tree to look around for the source. Seeing the body with a clear shot not through brush is pretty unusual. I'll sure take it if I get it but I can't count on it. Some places, some people get enough chances that they can be more selective. This year I never had a single legal opportunity to punch my tag.

Anyway, what that buck gave me was a shot I've taken and made with the .257 Roberts and '06 and just never gave it any thought. Head on, head up, so I put the crosshairs where throat meets neck and tripped the sear expecting the bullet to break the spine and come out the top of the neck. Nope. The bullet lost enough weight and velocity passing through the throat and some neck muscle that by the time it hit the spine it didn't have enough momentum left to break the bone.

Tom

Form- couple good posts!

I agree on most points, though I do love me some monos in the little guns....however on the damage subject I did use the Nosler 64 BSB on a couple deer and considered the damage to be excessive, so quit using them. The monos do indeed leave smaller wounds channels. In the dozens of deer Ive killed and butchered, most looked like they had been killed with a drill ...but if that wound channel is in the right place, Ive had excellent results.
Had good results with the old 55 grain Trophy Bonded,and am getting some good results with the 55 Gr. speer Gold Dot.

I know a couple of young Alaskans who've taken plenty of big game, including moose and grizzly, with their .223's. They're kind of puzzled when people say it isn't enough.

Ingwe, Form, and others,

With the monos and the .22 CF calibers, do you tend to alter your shot placement (e.g. aim for the shoulder bones, etc) or possible use only head/neck shots. In other words, what is preferred shot placement with the monos in a 22 caliber? Also, do you differ shot placement depending upon whether using a mono vs. a bonded bullet?

Thanks much and great topic,
R

I have seen the same thing twice IF that what 's TOM is describing--but both times with 150-grain cup-and-core bullets, one on a mule deer buck that weighed, field-dressed, 232 pounds after a week of hanging in my garage, the other on an average 6x6 elk elk shot just under the chin as it stood looking at the hunter (not me) at less than 100 yards in lodgepole timber.

The elk was only found after half a mile of tracking a very thin blood trail in snow. The bullet, luckily, had partially clipped one of the major blood vessels, so eventually keeled over. The shot on the mule deer was a "finisher" after it had been shot frontally in the center of the chest at 20-25 yards, also in timber. The first bullet exited through the spine at the rear of the ribcage (the buck was standing above me on a moderate slope), but the second was found, minus the core, resting gently against the spine.

As many have pointed out, bullet penetration matters more than cartridge, bullet weight, etc.

Ingwe, Form, and others,

With the monos and the .22 CF calibers, do you tend to alter your shot placement (e.g. aim for the shoulder bones, etc) or possible use only head/neck shots. In other words, what is preferred shot placement with the monos in a 22 caliber? Also, do you differ shot placement depending upon whether using a mono vs. a bonded bullet?

Thanks much and great topic,
R