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I've got mostly Kahles CL 3-9x42 scopes on my hunting rifles. I bought them when CDNN was selling them for cheap 12 years ago. I've also got a Zeiss Conquest VA 4-16x44. These are all very good scopes which have performed very well. I've also got various Leupolds and Burris', which mostly function just fine, but no longer meet my needs.

My rifles are Kimber Montana in 25-06; Winchester M70 in 264 WinMag; Montana Rifle Co X3 in 26 Nosler; and Kimber Montana in 300WSM.

I hunt elk and mule deer in the Rocky Mountains, Pronghorns on the open plains, and whitetails in the river bottoms.

Currently, I would never shoot over 400 yards. My longest shot to date was 300 yards on a Pronghorn with my 25-06. I am just starting to "dial", and so would eventually be willing to go to something around 600 yards in ideal conditions.

I like a simple reticle. So far, I am happy with a German 4A. And, for my use, I am preferring a second focal plane reticle. A 4x zoom range is plenty. I don't want an illuminated reticle.

The Kahles, while super good, don't have dialing capability. Thus, if I want to start dialing, the Kahles are a no go. Also, I'd like to get higher power than 9x.

I like the excellent optics and zoom range of the Zeiss 4-16x44, and it is dial-able. But the ocular bell is very large, which means the scope is mounted relatively high so the ocular will clear the ring base. Since I have no choice but to mount the scope high, I might as well get a larger objective, say something the 50mm-ish range. Zeiss doesn't make a V4 4-16 with a 50mm objective.

And, because the Kimber Montanas are slim trim rifles, I'd like the scope for those guns to be 1" tubes. A 30mm tube on the bigger M70 and X3 looks good.

I'd like to keep the price under $1000.

Tactical scopes are cool technology, but I am a hunter and so want a hunting-oriented scope. In other words, I want something that is relatively simple and straight forward, and don't want heavy and bulky.

I know the above are a lot of details. I know I may have to compromise on some of them. And, perhaps there is some room for "personal growth" on some of the parameters. But, what is close to what I've described, above?

TIA


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Not a 4X16, rather a 3X15 the price is under 800 and you won’t find a better scope fir 2000


https://www.tractoptics.com/products/riflescopes



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There are excellent quality options from Meopta and Swarovski. Please give me a call to discuss what would be the best fit for you.
We are bringing in some Meopta Artemis 2000 1.5-6x42's that are fantastic scopes which might be a perfect choice for you


Doug @ Camera Land

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Thanks for the support.

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3-15 SWFA would be perfect for you and is well
Under 1k.

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Thanks for the recommendations, and, Doug, for the offer of help.




Originally Posted by jwp475
Not a 4X16, rather a 3X15 the price is under 800 and you won’t find a better scope for 2000. https://www.tractoptics.com/products/riflescopes

An $800 scope as good as $2000 scopes is a strong statement. Can you share any additional details to help me understand the basis for this endorsement?

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I advise you to slow down and spend a little more time learning about shooting long range before you buy something. I have no first hand experience w/ the Zeiss but if you believe it to be a reliable dialing scope why don't you spend some time shooting and figuring out what you are doing first?

I can assure you 6mm of objective diameter is completly inconsequential in chasing your stated goals.

Figure out your trajectory, plot yourself some dope w/ wind calls and go to the range, it will be a much more productive use of your time and money.

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Canazes9 - Good advice to slow down! And, I know gaining experience before making a major purchase is always a good thing. But, that leaves me with just one dialable scope to spread between 4 rifles. Not sure if I have that much patience. :-)

I guess I could set all the guns up with the appropriate 30mm rings, and move the Zeiss scope between the guns. I'd have to re-zero it each time, though. Interesting thought . . . .

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Originally Posted by shinbone
Thanks for the recommendations and offers of help.




Originally Posted by jwp475
Not a 4X16, rather a 3X15 the price is under 800 and you won’t find a better scope for 2000. https://www.tractoptics.com/products/riflescopes

An $800 scope as good as $2000 scopes is a strong statement. Can you share any additional details to help me understand the basis for this endorsement?


I own a Tract 3X15 X50 Toric, I also own several S&B scopes some costing over 3000 dollars each and the glass in the Toric is Scott HD, the resolution and definition is comparable. Tract sells direct to the customer and cuts out a sizable middle man markup. They are an exceptional value in my opinion and experience.


I also have top end Zeis, US Optics and Meopta. The Tract Toric is a lot of scope at twice it’s price point.


Last edited by jwp475; 01/10/19.


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I don't think there are any dialing scopes with 1" tubes. I do own a Swaro Z5 with a turret. It's a 1" tube that I have used to dial with ,but I wouldn't consider it a "dialing" scope.

I would listen closely to Canazes9- David's advice above. If you really have to have a new scope to play with dialing,then get a SWFA SS 6X fixed mill-mill quad,and start learning how to dial. It is only about $300,and will dial with the best high $$$$$ scopes on the market. Then you will have a lot better idea of your needs for later.

One example is your Kimber rifle thoughts. I don't disagree in wanting to stay 1" tube,but you also should know that a Kimber Montana isn't really a 600 yard gun. That doesn't mean that it couldn't take game at that far or farther under the right conditions,and in the right hands. It just means that if I wanted to shoot long range,a Montana with a 1" tube scope wouldn't be my first choice. Point being,everything is a trade off in some way and compromise is inevitable,in some area. I would rather trade a little weight and aesthetics, on a Montana and set it up with a good dialing scope and good mounts,if long shots were a good possibility.

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1st, you probably won't want all of your rifles set up to dial. You've spent your entire hunting career without doing this, you don't need to convert everything in one season. You need to work on getting one rifle set up properly and getting some significant trigger time. Worry about the rest later.

2nd, your dislike for reticles other than the traditional duplex has got you prejudiced against a good mil/moa reticle before you even start. Go try and make some wind calls w/ your duplex and see if your opinion changes (it might not, but you don't know yet).

If you are bound and determined to spend some money on a scope, buy a SWFA SS 10x mil/mil for $300. Mount it on a rifle and compare shooting at range w/ your Zeiss. That will give you a MUCH better idea what you really want/need. The optics on the SWFA probably aren't what u want, but it will track/hold zero/RTZ and you can experience a mil reticle witha scope that will track accurately. If you decide you have no use for the SWFA after shooting for a while you should be able to unload it for no more than $100 loss, a cheap education.

David

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Originally Posted by Canazes9
1st, you probably won't want all of your rifles set up to dial. You've spent your entire hunting career without doing this, you don't need to convert everything in one season. You need to work on getting one rifle set up properly and getting some significant trigger time. Worry about the rest later.

2nd, your dislike for reticles other than the traditional duplex has got you prejudiced against a good mil/moa reticle before you even start. Go try and make some wind calls w/ your duplex and see if your opinion changes (it might not, but you don't know yet).

If you are bound and determined to spend some money on a scope, buy a SWFA SS 10x mil/mil for $300. Mount it on a rifle and compare shooting at range w/ your Zeiss. That will give you a MUCH better idea what you really want/need. The optics on the SWFA probably aren't what u want, but it will track/hold zero/RTZ and you can experience a mil reticle witha scope that will track accurately. If you decide you have no use for the SWFA after shooting for a while you should be able to unload it for no more than $100 loss, a cheap education.

David



David,the only reason I suggested the 6x over the 10X is that I figured that if he could see that he could hit stuff without the higher magnification,then the 6X would be a better hunting scope. I do think the 10X would make a better target scope,if only learning longer range shooting.

Just my thoughts for the OP.

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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by Canazes9
1st, you probably won't want all of your rifles set up to dial. You've spent your entire hunting career without doing this, you don't need to convert everything in one season. You need to work on getting one rifle set up properly and getting some significant trigger time. Worry about the rest later.

2nd, your dislike for reticles other than the traditional duplex has got you prejudiced against a good mil/moa reticle before you even start. Go try and make some wind calls w/ your duplex and see if your opinion changes (it might not, but you don't know yet).

If you are bound and determined to spend some money on a scope, buy a SWFA SS 10x mil/mil for $300. Mount it on a rifle and compare shooting at range w/ your Zeiss. That will give you a MUCH better idea what you really want/need. The optics on the SWFA probably aren't what u want, but it will track/hold zero/RTZ and you can experience a mil reticle witha scope that will track accurately. If you decide you have no use for the SWFA after shooting for a while you should be able to unload it for no more than $100 loss, a cheap education.

David



David,the only reason I suggested the 6x over the 10X is that I figured that if he could see that he could hit stuff without the higher magnification,then the 6X would be a better hunting scope. I do think the 10X would make a better target scope,if only learning longer range shooting.

Just my thoughts for the OP.


RHC,

We were typing at the same time...

I agree, but didn't think he would accept a reccomendation for 6x when he's already looking for more magnification...

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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by Canazes9
1st, you probably won't want all of your rifles set up to dial. You've spent your entire hunting career without doing this, you don't need to convert everything in one season. You need to work on getting one rifle set up properly and getting some significant trigger time. Worry about the rest later.

2nd, your dislike for reticles other than the traditional duplex has got you prejudiced against a good mil/moa reticle before you even start. Go try and make some wind calls w/ your duplex and see if your opinion changes (it might not, but you don't know yet).

If you are bound and determined to spend some money on a scope, buy a SWFA SS 10x mil/mil for $300. Mount it on a rifle and compare shooting at range w/ your Zeiss. That will give you a MUCH better idea what you really want/need. The optics on the SWFA probably aren't what u want, but it will track/hold zero/RTZ and you can experience a mil reticle witha scope that will track accurately. If you decide you have no use for the SWFA after shooting for a while you should be able to unload it for no more than $100 loss, a cheap education.

David



David,the only reason I suggested the 6x over the 10X is that I figured that if he could see that he could hit stuff without the higher magnification,then the 6X would be a better hunting scope. I do think the 10X would make a better target scope,if only learning longer range shooting.

Just my thoughts for the OP.



I don’t get this 6 power mantra, I have my variables set on 8 to 10 power way more than any other. If I need Less or more I have it at my finger tips.



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Everyone - Thanks for the very good suggestions. I can see I have more studying to do before making any decisions.

Starting with something less expensive to gain more experience with dialing and reticle designs does make sense.

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Originally Posted by jwp475

Not a 4X16, rather a 3X15 the price is under 800 and you won’t find a better scope fir 2000


https://www.tractoptics.com/products/riflescopes

jwp,

That’s a strong statement, and I suppose we’d need to define “better”. I’m neither anti-Tract, nor a Tract fanboy, so I approach the brand more inquisitively than anything. In my opinion “better” means mechanical function and reliability first and foremost, with optical performance rating somewhere in the Top 5 of important attributes. I think it has been established here on 24HCF that the Toric has superb glass for the price. What remains a question mark in my mind is the mechanical function, robustness, and durability of the scope. Buying one and testing it thoroughly would help, but still would only speak to (1) sample of one model of Toric. I’m not even sure if they ship to Canada grin I know of a couple guys on here that have a sizeable round count, hard use, and a lot of dialing on their Toric, but again, the sample size of those reports remains too small to make any generalized determination about the scope lineup.

How much dialing, carrying time/rough use, and what approximate round count do you have on your scope? What rifle is it mounted on? Thanks for the additional info.

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I'd toss a 3-12 LRHS on it and go kill chit. As far as you'll want to try.... I bang steel to 1000 regularly with a 260 Montana, so the comment of them only being a 600 yard gun is total bullshit.

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Heck, there was one sold here just a couple days ago on the classifieds for under $800.....

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Originally Posted by Canazes9
1st, you probably won't want all of your rifles set up to dial. You've spent your entire hunting career without doing this, you don't need to convert everything in one season. You need to work on getting one rifle set up properly and getting some significant trigger time. Worry about the rest later.

2nd, your dislike for reticles other than the traditional duplex has got you prejudiced against a good mil/moa reticle before you even start. Go try and make some wind calls w/ your duplex and see if your opinion changes (it might not, but you don't know yet).

If you are bound and determined to spend some money on a scope, buy a SWFA SS 10x mil/mil for $300. Mount it on a rifle and compare shooting at range w/ your Zeiss. That will give you a MUCH better idea what you really want/need. The optics on the SWFA probably aren't what u want, but it will track/hold zero/RTZ and you can experience a mil reticle witha scope that will track accurately. If you decide you have no use for the SWFA after shooting for a while you should be able to unload it for no more than $100 loss, a cheap education.

David


+1

Learn what works for your intended use before investing in what you think will work, and then having to buy/sell after you’ve got some learning and experience under your belt.

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Originally Posted by huntsman22
I'd toss a 3-12 LRHS on it and go kill chit. As far as you'll want to try.... I bang steel to 1000 regularly with a 260 Montana, so the comment of them only being a 600 yard gun is total bullshit.

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Heck, there was one sold here just a couple days ago on the classifieds for under $800.....

If a guy had to invest some money into a LR-capable hunting scope without really knowing what he’s looking for, that’d be the one. It’s got it all. Some may not prefer the reticle, and the weight may be a little much, but for the intended application it’s the best compromise out there, IMO.

Having said that, my Montana 84M is a sheep rifle first, and LR-capable second, so weight matters and it wears a SS 3-9x at about 5-6 oz less weight. My 8400 is more general use, so it got a LRHS 3-12x.

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Lots of feelings being tossed around in this thread . I wont argue with huntsman and jordan about the bushnell lrhs, im running 2 of them and they have been great killing scopes. As far as other recomendations based on glass.....Schott glass doesnt always impress me....even my coffee pot has schott glass.



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