Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles AR for Coyote

Folks ,

Just wondering if anyone uses an AR with a VarMatch contour barrel for coyote / fox hunting ??
It is fluted but still is .812 under the handguard where the flutes stop . It's by no means a light weight . I carry it in a Timber Butte sling which has 2 straps to go over both shoulders .
One of my buddies varmint rifle is at least as heavy but its a bolt rifle .
If anyone uses a fairly heavy rifle please tell me your thoughts .
The barrel is a Krieger 20" SS and boring accurate from around 60 to 77 grains .It's got a VX 3.5X10X40 on top . I'm also not a spring chicken as I came home from the war in 1970 . But I tried hunting with it Wednesday and it wasn't too bad , but I don't have more than a 3/4 mile walk .

So if you all can help me out I'd appreciate it . I wish I could post pics but that is another story .

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration .

Soup

Having tried it, custom Rem 700 22-250 26" Varmint barrel. I have no use for a heavy coyote rifle, most of my called coyotes are under 100 yards, I've been calling predators since the 1960's. Two of my favorites for calling coyotes Sav 10 sporter weight barrel 22-204 Sightron II 1.5x6x40mm, Sako Vixen 222 Rem mannlicher stock Weaver V-3 1-3x20mm

Soup, I'm not clear if you're asking whether a lighter AR would be better, or ? Yours sounds like a great rifle but heavy as you said. Up to you if you can deal with the weight for hunting, but if you want a lighter rifle that is certainly an option. It's fairly straightforward to build a 20" AR that comes in under 7 or 8 lb scoped, but I'm not sure if that's what you're asking.

The heavier weight of the rifle you've got might be of benefit in keeping it steady though, and you do already have it. How much does it weigh with scope and an empty mag? The one I use comes in at 9 lb even, but I often use a suppressor on it for hunting which brings it to almost 10 lb.

Yondering ,
It's about 10.4 ounces

Pass the 22 Grendel and hold the fluff.

Hint.................

Yondering ,
Thank you for your prompt reply . I'm inquiring a few things . Would the majority of coyote hunters abandon it and build a new one - OR - do a lot of fellows shoot rigs close to that weight . I need to give you all some facts . We only have about 100 acres to hunt , but there is 170 acres behind our farm where a lot of deer / turkeys and everything else live and come out to our place to eat , no one hunts it . . Next to us is 130 acres mixed wood and fields that the owner hunts for deer . Now the kicker , it's all in Southern New Jersey and the only time we can use rifles is from January 1st to March 15th and we can only have 3 rounds TOTAL in the rifle -it must not be larger than .25 cal and no projos over 80 grains . I think that most coyote hunters everywhere else have more walking to do and hunt over thousands of acres in the West , South West , Mid West and the South .
Now you know my fix , whats your thoughts .

Soup

I'd move and live a LOT.

Hint...............

Thank you Big Stick , I appreciate your consideration.
Soup

The nearly perfect coyote rifle, fast handling, fast target acquisition, accurate 200 yards plus.

Any good sporter weight in 223 would be better than what you are packing now. A rifle that heavy has to be a brute to handle on a running shot.

If it were me I would send the AR down the road and get something a lot lighter, you will find yourself enjoying hunting a lot more.

just my .02 cents worth.

drover

Magfed 75 ELD and/or 88 ELD Smooches,do not suck...ala Krunchenticker. Hint.

They needn't be heavy.

Hint..................

Soup- I had a ar with a Krieger barrel. it had a jewell trigger and shot very very good. I was not used to the balance and now use an hk 630 .223 and sako bolt actions in various calibers. 2 of them look like Erich's. the ar's advantage is when you call in 3 or more coyotes. and you are only allowed 3 rounds??? it will work though. I killed quite few with mine. I have harvested over 250 with various calibers.

worked back then, works now......

Then you're the guy to ask...

What's a good fur-friendly bullet for a .223? Our Eastern 'yotes aren't easy to come by and I don't want to blow the bejabbers out of them, just kill them.

I don't shoot/hunt nearly as many coyotes as some of the guys here. With that said, IMO that rifle would work fine for me in your application, but I'd probably get tired of packing it around eventually. Seems like what you've got has the scales tipped a bit more towards "precision shooting" than hunting, although that's not necessarily bad and depends on your preferences. Might as well hunt with it some though, your limits and abilities are probably different than mine.

For my own preference, the ARs I've built intentionally as walking around rifles end up in the 6-7 lb range complete; those vary from 9" and 12.5" barreled short guns (pistol and SBR territory) to 20" light rifles. My son and I hunted this fall with the short guns (he's 11 so a small AR is the perfect size), and I'm leaning more and more to that direction for a handy woods gun; while wandering the woods with my 12.5" SBR (and using it on deer) I came to the realization that I didn't need or miss the extra length of a full size rifle. That is a pretty unconventional point of view though, so you may or may not want my input. My main point is that maybe with the acreage you have available to hunt and what doesn't sound like many long shots, you might be served just as well or better with a smaller overall package than your current rifle.

As I mentioned above though, if you do decide that one is too heavy and prefer to lighten it up or build a lighter gun, options are plentiful. At the extreme end, you can get one of these rifles under 4 lb with iron sights, call it 5 lb scoped. That'll be expensive and time consuming, but 7 lb scoped is pretty easy and a noticeable difference compared to what you've got. The ARs I've built intentionally as walking around rifles are all in the 6-7 lb range complete; those vary from 9" and 12" barreled short guns (pistol and SBR territory) to 20" light rifles.

I'm in nearly the same boat. Due to state imposed restrictions my AR is a heavy beast- 20" Wilson HBar match grade barrel, fixed butt stock. Add the scope and a full magazine and it crowds double digits on the scale. I don't really mind it because my 66 year old gimpy self won't be doing any running and gunning any time soon, so it's primarily a benchrest ammo waster. It is however my primary coyote gun, and the little of that I actually get to do is done from static positions so again I don't feel handicapped by its size. (We do get to have 5 more rounds in the mag while hunting than our Jersey brethren.) I know, I know...

In the thick woods and small farm holdings of western MD and PA where I do all my hunting anymore I simply use the 55 Hornady SP at 3200 fps. None of the guys in my circle of hunting acquaintances uses bullets dissimilar to those. 88 ELD's and the like are simply a waste of money when the coyotes are only 50-100 yards away, and ranges that accommodate extreme long range practice are virtually non-existent.

52gr Speer Flatbase HP's, they've been putting fur on the stretcher for a long time for me. I use them in my 222 Rem, 223, 5.6x50R Mag, 22-204 and 22-250, fast or slow they seem to just work well. I do use the 40gr NBT in the 22-204 a lot.

Pappy348- I have not shot any coyotes out east. my understanding is they are larger. I would love to call in some red foxes some day. my experience with 222 mag 223 and 222- i like 50, 55 and even 60 grain ballistic tips, now. in the past we used 50 grain and 55 grain Hornady sx. Coyotes are hard to kill . you can not skin the ones that get away. hitting the center of the front half of a coyote ; is a fairly small challenging target . i have taken one with a .17 rem ; 6 with a 22 mag. i have lost some with those rounds. not very decisive for me. . in the .223 i use a LOT of N-133 and either a 50 or 60 grain ballistic tip. one of my favorites is my 6ppc sako and 65 grain Hornady. i do not shoot them with a shotgun . 4 buck/41 pellets is very good and forgiving if you get them in to 40-50 yards. and fur friendly.

Reds, despite the fairy tales, ain't real bright. Doesn't mean they come running every time you toot your call though. Once I spotted one mousing in a snowy field and about blew myself unconscious trying to get him to come closer. He never even looked up. I suspect that on that patch of WMA, they hear it all. One busted me about a week ago while I was trying to deer hunt on crunchy ground with my .54. As they usually do, he acted like he'd left a pot on the stove and just ambled off in the opposite direction. If you stay still, it's like you're invisible, even with a couple of yards of blaze orange on. Have yet to see a yote, or gray fox, or cat on that WMA, though they're all in the area, even in my subdivision at times. I'm putting the little woman on a plane to China in a couple of days, and am going to hit it hard while she's gone, weather permitting. Heavy snows in Jan and Feb have shut things down in the last few years.

I've got a bunch of the BT 50s. Thanks.

Yes, Eastern coyotes tend to be a little larger than those out yonder, and there's a lot fewer of them (but still quite a decent population).

I'm certainly no coyote shooting expert, and frankly becoming one is pretty far down on my list of priorities. My cuz is the opposite though and is organizing a couple expeditions for them at his playground in north central PA wherein I'm just a hired gun. Sitting under cover and keeping my yap shut and being invisible is something I can handle, and the heavy AR is dandy for that approach. (PA only recently allowed the use of semi-autos for varminting.)

A friend of mine has one of these he had custom built, I was looking at his brass and it is no neck turn 22 PPC.
Don't know why the name change

A Grendel is vastly different from a PPC. Hint.



Bless your heart for trying..................

I started out hunting coyotes with a Rock River Varmint model AR, with a 20 inch heavy barrel. Loved how it shot, hated how it carried. Have since settled on lightweight bolt guns, although I do on occasion carry an AR. It's not the kind of gun, but how well you shoot the one you have.

Boolits matter more than a smidge. Hint.

It prolly ain't unhandy,to squirt 75 ELD magfed Smooches at 310fps+ in a 20" Krunchenticker. Hint.

Bless your heart.............

I have been hunting coyotes with AR's for a long time, most of mine are a bit on the heavy side as well. I have built several over the years to be coyote hunting specific and they always seem to end up a pound or two heavier than I planned. I always try something different when doing a build to see if it makes it better for coyote hunting. My current AR sports a 1-12" WOA 20" barrel, JP trigger, billet side charge upper with a Leupold 2.5X8 pushing 10 pounds. I never go hunting with just one rifle, I will pack my 6 pound .222 in the truck in case I have a looooooong walk to a stand or in wide open country I will take my 16 pound 22-250AI and see if I can hit a 800 yard coyote with an 80gr VLD

............Hint, it's not
Bless your heart....

Be SURE to "tell" me "more".

Hint.



Bless your heart................

The shoulder is about .070" farther forward on the Grendel case, but they are otherwise very similar. Note that the chambers (particularly the neck and throat) are pretty different between a PPC and Grendel, but the case itself is pretty similar as you noticed. You can use PPC dies for Grendel cases, I do that for 243 LBC, which is a 6mm Grendel variant and basically a slightly longer 6mm PPC that's throated for heavy bullets with a no turn neck.

Hope that clears up the differences.

Yondering, I sent you a PM.

She was doing "GREAT".

LAUGHING!.

Pardon my shooting it all and then some.

Hint.................

ya know Stimpy.....

you shoot a lot, of everything... and you brag about shooting out more barrels than most people own X number of rifles....shoot them barrels out and they are plain worn out....

what I don't understand tho..... is you shoot nothing off more than you mouth...

and that never seems to wear out....

so are you still working with the original you came into the world with....

or have you been "rebarreled" or Re Mouthed multiple times in your internet career....

The inquiring minds of your campfire Groupies are dying to know...

Myself... I just think it would all slow down if you weren't living alone anymore...

well said

Please find me "mistaken",it WILL be funnier than fhuqk. You CLUELESS Window Licking Dumb Fhuqks are a hoot...mainly because you are doing your best. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Be SURE,to "tell" me "more".

Bless your hearts.

Do not "forget",that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery.

Laughing!.................

Ooopsie!............

Wow 310 fps!!! Are you shiitin me????

Do you have any coyote pics?

Ooopsie!.................

310!!! Smoking!!!!

Ooopsie!..............

Does that camo band help?

Ooopsie!............

You know Stimpy is usually too drunk to operate his keyboard, don't ya...

However he has a very smart Lab....he dictates, and his dog translates and then types it the best he can.

Imagine the mistakes you'd make if you only had paws and tried to type...

Plus you try to translate Alaskan Trailer Part Gibberish from someone who is both uneducated, and drunk..

That Lab ought to be given Sainthood....

Oooopsie!.................

So ya got stuff Stumpy.....and more than most of us have...

But then, we have something you don't have.... A family...

did ya ever think, with all the stuff you gotta have, maybe that is why you don't have a family anymore?

on second thought.... how big is your circle of "friends" up there in Nowhere AK?

its hard not to feel sorry for ya over all Stumpy....

I'll admit publicly to asking the Good Lord to watch over you when I read some of your posts..

I wouldn't trade my life for yours, and I wouldn't have enough hours in the days to use all the stuff you show pics of... the one with the most toys, really doesn't win much in life...

do you go to sleep whispering "Rosebud" to yourself....

Ooopsie!...............

Replied, hope that helps!

Don't know if you'll get a PM notification, mine just blinks constantly anyway, always has.

Folks ,
Has any of this he said she said got anything to do with my questions about the weight of my AR for coyote hunting ?


It is a Mega lower , Geissle DMR trigger , I shipped an upper to Krieger and they assembled and head spaced my bolt and installed a 20” SS fluted and blasted VARMATCH barrel in a .223 Wylde chamber . It has a 1 in 7.7 twist and Krieger’s free floating hand guard. Around the gas port is .812 . A Leupold 3X 3.5X10X50 Scope sits on top . Luth adjustable stock .

Would youall use it to hunt ?? Or get rid of it because it is too heavy . It is very accurate ,

That’s the original question .
Thank you in advance for your time, and consideration.

Semper Fi
Soup

Ever hear of the outlaw sling? It won't matter how much your AR weighs. You can carry it easily.
https://www.timberbutteoutdoors.com/theoutlawsling.html

Sempre Fi....

That indicate you are a Marine? Weight shouldn't be an issue to a Marine unless you are
up in years, or have a handicap nowadays....

I was just an Army Guy... and in my mid 60s... but I wouldn't feel handicapped carrying the rifle
you described....

but then a good sling would also appeal to me... like Kenlguy posted of..

I've been using 2 of the Outlaw slings for a year now . . One I use for my crossbow the other for the AR . I would not want to carry either with a regular sling .

Yes I'm an old Marine . I came home from the war in 1970 ! Yes I've got issues like everyone else my age . I'll be 70 in 2 months . I'm going to try to keep enjoying the outdoors as long as I possibly can !

Soup

Pretty easy to make your own, just need a couple cheap Uncle Mikes slings and a side mounted swivel base on the hand guard. Perfect for on the bicycle, motorcycle, skis or snow shoes. I set this one up like this because it won't fit in my back scabbard that I carry my bolt and combo guns in. Someday I'm going to shoot a coyote with it just to say I did but it won't ever be my goto gun for coyote hunting.




A better solution for coyotes

I never go anywhere without wearing a ruck and binos. The LAST thing I want,is to be bolted into a hurdle.

For bidness,the rifle is in mitts...for covering ground it's draped around the neck and shoulder for comfort/Quicktitood.

Heavy Krunchentickers are Play Toys,light done right get the business. Same goes boltguns.

Hint..................

Good points there. It would be obvious to a blind man that Stinky has some pretty serious issues. Normally I wouldn't care if someone like him sat in his corner and masturbated his life away, except he chooses to do it here thus ruining some pretty good threads.

gnoahhh,

Your Man Lust Fantasies are telling and the only thing you can speak of in the first hand.

Congratulations?!?

Hint.............

I can see his obituary now. "He owned and shot a lot of guns, and took a few pretty pictures. That's all."

gnoahhh,

It's your Imagination,so be SURE to Pretend with it in the manner,which most soothes your very WELL founded Insecurities. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

Laughing!......................

Trust me when I say it takes no imagination to peg you for what you are. You confirm that with each post you make.

Ooooopsie!...............

As an aside...you don't even "trust" you. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

LAUGHING!...............

Last visit to the doctor's office must have been interesting....

He learned a few things and cut some checks.

Hint..................(grin)

Rumor has it that Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is one of Stumpy's love childs.. after a weekend bender....

They both seem to be of the same place mentally....that and you can see the family resemblance in the eyes...

Ya gotta wish him well, to think he has a daughter that has made it all the way to the US Congress...

how many other campfire members can say that?

just today she was talking about WW 2 is going to start and destroy the planet in less than 12 years...

Girl is a national brain trust and chip off the old que ball like her dad....

Congrats Stumpy.. the campfire is proud of ya.... and your daughter...

Shefire,

Your perpetual Man Lust Fantasies are telling. Hint. Congratulations?!?

On the average,how many times a day do you think about me? Now not on one of your "Special" days,just an average one?

Bless your heart...there's no slighting your taste in men.

Hint.

Laughing!...............

Thanks Stimpy... I'll take that on advisement....coming from you, that level of BlahblahblahBlahblahblah
BlahblahblahBlahblahblahBlahblahblahBlahblahblahBlahblahblahBlahblahblahBlahblahblah means a lot.

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you must.

Hint.

Congratulations?!?...................

Thanks Stumpy... I knew I could count on you to give me advice.....

ya know for a short guy operating on two brain cells... you can surely cut and paste a response from
years of the your lab coming up with them for ya... Give the old boy a scratch between the ears for me...

and you go have another beer.... and scratch your nuts for a while...

I'm sure it is some of the simple pleasures you now enjoy since its winter.... in Ft Lauderdale Alaska

Thank you to all who gave me positive feedback.
Any additional comments both pro / con are also appreciated .
Semper Fi,
Soup

Congrats on deciphering the code that Soup is a Marine .Now you can continue derailing his thread by playing patty cakes with Stick lol.

Heavy metal...7" and 8" 243 Win's.............

Valid Point.... Apologies to anyone who feels they need it.

I'm sure SOUP, can cope by ignoring what he doesn't feel contributes to his question.

Tough to whoop the 224 and 243 Grendels.



Hint...............

TTT

Soup, now that you described your rifle in more detail, I think my initial comment still stands - that it sounds like you have a sweet shooter, but maybe a bit more specialized for precision than I (and probably a lot of other hunters) would want. A lighter rifle with a thinner barrel profile and slimmer handguard (along with other changes) might fit you better.

Soup, Coyote hunting isn't like whitetail still hunting. if you can hump your rifle from setup to setup put a bipod on and pretend its a m60 on a pintle mount!
we are of the same age and i find i'm lightening my carry guns. yous sounds like medicine for reaching out to shy dogs.
i am going out this weekend and my savage 10 in its current stock pushes 10 lbs.
key is finding a youngster that wants to hunt with you and getting him/her to pack it for you

ps OT. pray that Big Stick finds his sanity. clearly missing.

AR `s are great coyote rifles for callin critters,i now use a AR-10 243 win. with a 24 inch barrel,nightforce scope and Nosler partition bullets to save on the hides. good luck,Pete53

Soup, I took this picture for ya today of one of my hunting ARs to give you an idea of a more streamlined and portable AR if you want to go that direction. This one's nothing special (and I don't even like the scope, so ignore that part) but is nice to carry in the woods for a few reasons:
- that stainless 20" barrel is a light profile perfect for hunting where you'll only fire a few shots at a time.
- 15" handguard that is free float but very slim so it's easier to carry & hold, more like a traditional hunting rifle size. Note the short rail section at the end for a QD bipod mount if desired.
- the side charge handle is reciprocating, and makes it easier to quietly close the bolt on a loaded round
- light weight stock and light forged receivers and barrel profile bring this one in at less than 7.5 lb as pictured with an empty mag. Add 5-10 rounds and it's at 7.5 lb even.

The sling is missing at the moment, but I consider that a necessity for this type of rifle and it normally wears one.

The best part about these is you can build it how you want. You can also paint it camo or have it hydrodipped if you want.

Side note - this one is not a 223, but you can build the same type of setup in a 223 as well. This one is a 30 cal wildcat using the 6.8 SPC case, and the barrel is a re-purposed 30/06 bolt action barrel I re-used for the light profile.

Nice looking rig. I see uppers for sale with and without a reciprocating side charge handle. I guess I don't know what the term reciprocating refers to in this case. Can you help?

I think it means the knob either stays put at the shot or moves with the bolt.

Reciprocating means that the handle is actually attached to the bolt directly. It means that you can use the handle to slowly close the bolt if desired but yet also push the handle to close the bolt completely.

I think right-side reciprocating handles are the way to go for a hunting gun.
I think left-side (such as shown above) are the way to go on a fighting gun.

Actually on a reciprocating the handle is attached to the bolt carrier not the bolt, I agree with the rest of your post, I have right and left side charge uppers and much prefer the right side handle for coyote hunting if you are a right handed shooter

Thanks for the clarification. As a lefty, I suppose a right hand chase would suit me better, too.

Yondering ,

What would the rifle in the photograph weigh ?
Thank you
Soup

8# With a 10 rnd mag. rides in my jeep just about all the time. Rio7

8# With a 10 rnd mag. rides in my jeep just about all the time. Rio7

Sorry about double post , my power went off for a couple of min. Rio7

It's a few ounces shy of 7.5 lb with an empty mag, as pictured. Right at 7.5 lb with 5-10 rounds of ammo, per my postage scale.

No offense intended, but I'm very very skeptical that rifle could weigh only 8 lb. Did you weigh it on a bathroom scale, or something more accurate?

Compare it to the rifle I posted - you have a heavier barrel, heavier handguard, thick heavy upper receiver, and a very heavy stock. That stock alone weighs 1.5 lb more than the stock on the rifle in my pic; no way your complete rifle can be only 1/2 lb heavier than mine.

Based on other rifles I have built with similar components to yours, I'd guess yours is around 10-11 lb, minimum.

Yondering, Weighed it on bath room scales, it ain't to heavy, have carried it for over 15 years, and killed hundreds of coyotes, bobcats, and pigs, with it, my other ar is a little heavier, it's about 30 years old. compared to the M-1 I carried in the service it feels like a feather. no offense taken.

Rio, I appreciate you not taking offense to my comment. I weighed stuff on bathroom scales for a long time as well, but quit after discovering that most of those scales are pretty unreliable for light weight objects like rifles. Most scales seem to be within 3-5 lb at best when used in that weight range. I picked up a postage scale that goes up to ~50 lb for more accurate measuring, and found that some of my previous weight "measurements" were way off.

I don't mean to imply that your rifle is too heavy, just trying to help the OP understand weights of these things. For example, if we mounted that PRS stock from your rifle onto mine, it'd put my rifle right about 9 lb, even though the rest of the parts are fairly light profile. As I've mentioned earlier in the thread, for some guys that's a perfectly reasonable weight, and it makes for a pretty solid rifle. Others may want a lighter rifle that's easier to carry.

Yondering, I have 2 scales bathroom to 300#, and cattle scales that go to 2000# Not much lightweight stuff around here. Rio7