Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Important ? Yor rifle load or physical condition

As I originally stated most reasonable cal's with reasonable bullets will take elk when properly placed. The vast majority of deer & elk I have taken over the years has been under 200yds. Not to say longer shoots can present them selves. As some one who is 75 , still in great shape & been hunting since I was old sough to do so I appreciate an accurate rifle. When it comes to rifles open sights have saved my hunt a couple times in past years. Scopes can be damaged from falls in an instant.I see back up open sights as being prepared. . Have you ever been in the back country slipped & fell & bent your scope eye piece. I have . In my opinion wisdom says back up open sights are mandatory.
As far as staying in shape my every day activities seem to take care of that at the 7630 ' I live at. My point is make sure your rifle is sighted in with a proper bullet need for the intended game. That is "EASY". The hard part as I see it is being physically prepared. The mind is willing but the budy's lust for pizza, donuts , cake, ice cream , cheese, pepperoni & such can be over whelming for some. A strong mind set & a willingness to suffer to obtain any goal shows the charter of the individual. Am I perfect. Absolutely not. It's just that I have the good fortune to live at a high elevation to start with & a looooong way from the grocery store.

I agree with many of the posts above. It's the man, not the weapon and load that is doing the hunting. A good hunter who can do what is needed physically can kill elk with iron sighted guns and do it nearly every year.

In hunting it's 98% the man and 2% the gun.

I know a man personally who told me he was building a "long range rifle" and would not need to get far from his vehicle. And one year he made a long shot when I was with him. It was not "stupid long", but a bit over 700 yards...........UPHILL from the road.

I smiled and said, "OK, go get him" .

Now 700 yards is not even 1/2 mile. I thought he was going to have a heart attack hiking up to the elk carrying nothing but a butt pack and that huge 15 + pound rifle and scope. Then he was hit by the fact that a good bull will weight about 700 pound dressed out. And all that 700 pounds had to get down to the road. Many times you have to take them UP hill. He looked like he was dying, and I almost felt bad telling him he was lucky. It was not the usual mile or more, and NONE of it was uphill.

Well he did it, although we were finishing up by flash light on the last trip up and down with the back-boards. The shot was made around mid day.

That was his 1st and last elk.

He is quite lazy and will not get into shape, so hunting antelope on flatter ground is now what he likes to do. He shoots that rifle quite well from the bench, but so far I have seen him miss about 50% of the antelope he's fired at too.

szihn:

Does he use a range finder on the 'lope? And a decent rest?

Pre RFinvention days I accompanied a friend on a 'lope hunt in CO. He was a fair to middlin' competition shooter., but was shooting from a sitting position.

He badly overshot the first three bucks, several times each. On the third one, I could see his bullets hit. What he was guessing 500 yards was hardly over 200, I think.

Finally he took a shot waaaaay out there, and clipped the end of the buck's pecker off. 'Lope went over the hill a few yards and laid down but we didn't know that. In following up to look for blood, we jumped it at about 30 yards and he FINALLY had his tag punched.

I have since myself achieved a pecker shot on caribou, and then bought a rangefinder......

Good point!

I had pulled a hamstring in June, which wasn't quite back to normal yet. That didn't help! But stretching exercises prior to season probably would have.

The last day of season, I could feel a charlie horse coming on if we didn't ease off, so we hiked out a couple hours early taking it easy, with rests and water.

Hmmm. Never thought of it that way but I think you're right. Some of my best hunts have been about a week into the season.

Total slut, like the village bicycle.

I can hook you up if you want.

Hesp, you mentioned high altitude in your post and there is really not a lot of prep a guy can do that doesn't live at elevation to prepare for it. I work every day at 8200ish feet and I run with my cross country team most of the time and i can tell you that when you get above treeline it still hurts a bit for me and I have been at 8200 feet for 22 years. Folks that don't prepare aerobically or don't lift will struggle mightily. Altitude sickness is also an issue if you come from near sea level. If the elk are up and you get sick you have to go down and or suffer the consequences which could include death. My nephew and his buds are coming to Colorado to hunt and he asked what he should do to prepare. Three things in this order was my reply: get in the best aerobic shape of your life (of the three this will be the trip breaker for him if I had to pick) and start year in advance, buy the best hunting/hiking boots you can afford and break them in really well, best glass you can afford (scope, binoculars, and spotter.

When I was younger and hunting in Idaho, it seemed like the gun didn't matter much at all. I used guns "roughly" sighted in, and guns sighted in for different ammo than I was using, guns sighted in by a right-hander while I am a lefty. Ammo was a strange mix of my dad's handloads (usually on the mild side, and quite variable in accuracy) and cheap factory ammo (a blend of Rem CL, Win PP, and Federal) because of the split-up family situation.

I remember climbing several thousand vertical feet a day after mule deer in sheep country. I remember endless climbing up and down mountains. I remember endless walking. But the killing was all short ranges (15- 250yds), and the half-assed gun/load prep never mattered. When I moved to Montana when I got a bit older, the areas I ended up hunting were a mix between heavy, thick timber and huge open canyons. Shots came at short distances at times, but more often, we ended up having shots that were ridiculously long according to my younger self. A range finder became a necessity, as did avid handloading, as well as lots of practice well past the ranges I shot things when I was younger. I could definitely hunt again where shots were nearly always less than 200yds, but that requires a bit more hiking in and a bit more hauling out than the areas I hunt now. Still, I try to be in the best shape I can possibly be in, because most every hunt where nothing gets killed is still several miles of hiking wearing and carrying about 25 lbs of stuff, with a whole lot of up and down, and it's a whole lot more demanding when something ends up on the ground.

I feel bad for those road hunters I see every year. I may be one in the future. Hunting for me was never about killing. It is about testing myself against nature. If the test aspect was taken away, it would be a whole lot less fun. Which is why I still hunt elk. I can't quite imagine sitting in a stand, shooting a deer, and calling that hunting.

Yes las, he does use a range finder and about every other gizmo and gadget you can imagine.
The total "gear-queer" to the absolute max. bi-pod, mono-pod in the rear, spirit level on his super powerful Nite Force scope, tensioning sling, ranging cards, wind meter, smart phone and I may have missed about 4 things.

I joke and tell him the antelope will die of old age before he gets ready to fire.
All that stuff is OK if a man can use it all, but when you are out of shape, even the excitement of seeing a nice antelope buck gets him worked up. The antelope often see all the screwing around he's doing and start to move away, even if only slowly, but that trows him into a deeper rush.
Anyway, with all the gizmo-crap he has I have still seen him miss about 1/2 of the game he's fired at, and it's not because any of his gear is bad. It's because he doesn't train to shoot any any realistic way. 4 years ago I had the same tag he did, and we went out together. I told him to fire first. He did from prone (as always). The buck then ran and I dropped it with my Ruger #1 in 9.3X74R. Range was about 350 yards. He was pissed, but tried (to his credit) to hide it. He'd been "practicing" the day before from his bench at 500 yards and didn't put the scope turrets back to his usual 300 yards zero. So he turned up the number of clicks (dumb to do from 300 to 350) and didn't realize he was set at 500 when he started. He is not the only one I have seen do that by a long shot. I bet I have seen at least 15 hunters make that mistake with target scopes. But when the buck ran it hooked back around because it didn't know what was going on and when it slowed down I fired and hit it right through the point of the shoulder, dropping it on the spot. He is one of MANY hunters I have known that seem to think buying things will replace human skill.

I like the guy so I don't rain on his parade much, but he has not learned in about 15 year now. Gear can't replace skill.

He will never will do any exercise to get into better shape and he also will not shoot at from any position other then the bench rest. So he never gains any skill. His rifle and ammo shoot ragged hole groups (under 1/2 MOA) when he has the concrete bench under them, and the V bags front and rear, but all that gear, and nothing but bench shooting has crippled him as a rifleman. Being in poor shape means that getting 50 yards from a truck makes him pant like a dog in summer.

I tried to get him to shoot with me about 4 years ago, off hand. 10" target at 100 yards. He fired 2 shots, had 2 misses and he quit, set out his gear, and then proceeded to shoot good groups off the bench again.

Oh well..............he buys deer and antelope licenses, (no more elk) and he can do as he chooses. He does brings home venison some times. As long as he has LOTS of time, and can lay down with nothing blocking his bullets path, and the game doesn't ever see him screwing around, he can kill game.

Couple these faults with “over analyzing” several scenarios (too much internet hunting) and trying to be prepared for each on a single hunt. I knew a hunter, that was out of shape, with a somewhat heavy rifle, on his first self-guided elk hunt. He purchased the latest “Wiz-bang Super Rifle”, then proceeded to developed several different loads and bullets for different hunting scenarios. He would bring this multitude of cartridges on his hunt... on his person. He would then load the cartridge, that was best suited for the shot. I tried, desperately, to use logic on his proposed methods....unsuccessfully! He managed to find elk, and promptly “screwed-up” what should have been an easy kill. Several ridges, and many shots, later, another hunter watched this debacle, and finished off the wounded elk. Extremely embarrassed and disillusioned with elk hunting......to my knowledge, this was his last elk hunt! There are many ways to ruin a hunt....this may have been the most outrageous, I’ve witnessed! memtb

Very interesting discussion. I hear of hunters who show up, look fit as heck and can't make it past the first few days. As mentioned, crawling out of that bag day after day and going into rough country seems to be a good way to increase your odds.

It reminds me of a SEAL instructor talking about guys who'd show up for BUDS looking like they were carved out of granite but didn't have the mental toughness to stick it out. The contrast is the pudgy kid from rural America who wouldn't let anything beat him down.

I tend to think that by the time you reach a point in your life to go elk hunting, that mindset is already formed, you either have it or you don't. The exception being teenagers hunting with role models.

I think most elk I've killed have been in situations when my heart and lungs were heaving out of my chest. Learning to calm your heart rate and breathing down to pull that trigger has been key. Obviously, the better fitness you have, the easier that becomes.

My hunting buddy and I used to walk about 35 miles during 5-6 day elk hunt, without much success. We killed elk, just not as many as later when we got older and in worse physical shape - and slowed down. Most of my kills in recent years have come when I was hunting alone. While I spend a lot of time at the range working up hunting loads, the rifle and load I use on any particular hunt are determined more by fun factor than ballistics. I've hunted elk with a .44 Mag revolver, .44 Mag carbine, .257 Roberts, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .30-30, multiple .30-06, .300WM, .338WM, .375 Win and .45-70. Only one shot taken last 411 yards and most of the rifles I've used are good to go at 411.

We hunt on foot and a primary consideration is the pack-out - we won't go further than we're comfortable getting an elk out. We have a cart but still often have to pack the meat out on our backs much of the way. I tell everyone that will listen that the fun stops when you pull the trigger. While that isn't strictly true, it is when the hard work starts. Hiking in and out with only your rifle and pack is the easy part.

Hunting buddy is diabetic and would never carry enough water or food in an attempt to lighten his pack. By day's end he was often drinking my water and eating my food. Twice he had to be sent home, once for hospitalization. Another time he was hallucinating when we got back to camp. Yet another he was puking due to over exertion when trying to cart his deer out by himself. I'm pretty convinced altitude played a part in some of those incidents.

I know there will come a time when I have to give up elk hunting altogether - hopefully at least 10 years down the road. That decision won't be at all impacted by my rifle load.

The most important factor on a high elevation hunt out west? Hunting where there is game! There's millions of Acres out here and plenty of them don't hold game. Between rifle and physical shape I would say physical shape is more important.

That's even more true with late season elk hunts. They bunch up for the winter leaving 99% of the range devoid of elk. If you find them you'll find lots of them but if you don't you get nothing but a nice hike in the woods.

I grew up/worked in the oilfields of SE, Tx. My first hunting out West was bowhunting in the Uncompahgre Plateau area. Not too bad, camp on top and hunt the drainages. We killed mule deer/cow elk, had a ball. In '82 I went with two Texaco co men to hunt the Holy Cross/White river Mnts (Minturn, CO) during late October, rifle season. It kicked my 29yr old, 70 feet above sea level nubile body, ha! My legs turned to rubber and my heart was beating somewhere up between my ears! My knees turned to fire coming down! I learned real quick that kind of country was not for me! I hear of folks out here even, in Utah, who die every season, trying to hunt where they just can't. I just turn my focus on places/ranches/times of the year when/where I "can" hunt. Even now as a soft, overweight, bolted together "Senior"...there are places I can get to. what I "will not do" and what I see every year, is some old phart who insists he 'can" do it, go with his younger son/relatives and ends up screwing "their" hunt up when he gets sick/hurt/lost/or dies from a heart attack. Selfishness and hubris gone amuck.! Simple fact is...as in all walks/endeavors of the short, short Life...some CAN, some CAN'T.
"A man should know his limitations"...lol

I don't go (hiking or on machine, if alone). that I can't hike out of. About 10-15 miles, depending. Now. I used to be dumber.... younger.... more fit... But I would do it again if I could.

I don't kill stuff I don't have a plan and surity to get out. (It ain't the "hunting" - it's the "getting chit out" that determines the parameters)

I'm not as tough (tho I'd like to be) as that 73 year old Eskimo guy I picked up a couple years back, 8 miles down the beach from town. His ATV had bogged down 40 miles out of Kotzebue 2 days before. He drank all my water, passed on the candy bars.

I'm just a few (many?) steps slower than I was at 35.... 35 years ago - and I was in great shape then.

That doesn't mean I'm any smarter.... . Slower hunting, not necessarily easier.

My mind lately ain't confabbing with the body. I listen to the body. Mostly.

I can kill with anything, regardless of caliber, that I am competent with, within reason.

My son, overweight, and 5K higher than me, was less able than I, not just to this, but as said, mentally. I KNOW I can hack that Co elk hunt, if somewhat slower than I was 30 years ago. Or 10 years ago, when I did take an elk there. He was worried about me getting altitude sickness which is not in my vocab! Tho I will fold like a house of cards if I experience it...

Old age and treachery.....

I suspect he doesn't have the mental attitude for another elk hunt, but we will see. And he better get in better physical condition if he does. Or find easier hunting.

We used to go snow skiing every spring, you will have a much better time if you are in some kind of shape. I made sure I could go on the stairstepper with it set on max for an hour. I could kick the cshit out of all the younger people in our group.

Lack of physical conditioning will ruin way more hunts than rifle choice.

This is the truth, mental state of mind got me through more than a few hard hunts out west.