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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116 |
Instant Gratification RINKMight scratch an itch for you...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
You seem upset.
I'm not bothered by your claims. If they are true, you are working with some high pressures.
It's just an observation, not a critique.
I think anyone's got a right to get defensive when other folks start armchair quarterbacking. You're usually more of a gentleman, but on this one you're kind of a dick and really have no idea what I've observed in my rifle. If you want to have some useful input, tweak your QL inputs to match Ramshot's TAC data exactly (meaning powder charge, velocity, AND pressure) for a 24" barrel, then shorten that to a 16" and tell us what velocity it predicts. I think you'll be surprised. I'm familiar with the chambering,the platform and propellants cited...which is why I simply cited burn rates as THE reddest of flags.
It ain't my lips and I'll happily watch the fhuqking show!...................(grin) Stay away from me with your lips, sweetcheeks.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116 |
Don't flatter yourself...it ain'y my lips that are suspect.
Hint.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942 |
You said you observed 2850 fps from a 16" barrel. I didn't make that up.
If you need a QL numbers bitch, I'm not that chick.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942 |
I'll go by published load data (like the Ramshot / Western Powders data I used) over QL any day. Don't really care what QL estimates to be honest, it's a pretty meaningless estimate unless correlated to other established loads for my particular barrel.
Note that most published data for these is for 223 Rem, while Ramshot has a separate section for hotter 5.56 loads. And now you're interested in QL predictions??
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
You said you observed 2850 fps from a 16" barrel. I didn't make that up.
If you need a QL numbers bitch, I'm not that chick.
Do you understand the correlation between brass life and pressure? You really think that 75ksi loads leave reloadable brass behind? You apparently don't see the difference between QL guessing and actually correlating it to something either, or are you just being obtuse still? This isn't worth continuing, I came here to learn and share info not to argue; you and your hero Big Tick can hug it out and celebrate for winning on the internet.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942 |
I cannot help but believe that pushing 75's to 2850 fps in a 16" barrel is running on the warm side of warm.
Good shooting, and stay safe.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354 |
I cannot help but believe that pushing 75's to 2850 fps in a 16" barrel is running on the warm side of warm.
Good shooting, and stay safe. Translation HAF OSU T C K I agree
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116 |
You said you observed 2850 fps from a 16" barrel. I didn't make that up.
If you need a QL numbers bitch, I'm not that chick.
Do you understand the correlation between brass life and pressure? You really think that 75ksi loads leave reloadable brass behind? You apparently don't see the difference between QL guessing and actually correlating it to something either, or are you just being obtuse still? This isn't worth continuing, I came here to learn and share info not to argue; you and your hero Big Tick can hug it out and celebrate for winning on the internet. Someone who "knows" as "much" as you,will ALWAYS be better served by asking questions...rather than giving "answers". Hint. Congratulations?!? Pardon Facts and Physics colliding with your Fantasy. Bless your heart..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,567
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,567 |
Ramshot has a separate section for hotter 5.56 loads. Ramshot is not bashful about their load data compared to most others; Hodgdon is generally conservative IME; Nosler data is generally close to reality for much of it & is very close to what I can get and am comfortable with for a goodly number of rounds, on a few I am over their numbers. 5.56 NATO data is a fair amount warmer than standard 223 data from any source. Gen-u-ine 5.56 ammo is getting harder to find & some of it that calls itself 5.56 M193 is watered down, but when I shoot IMI M193, it's easy to tell the difference from weak 223 stuff. IIRC, there is not a SAAMI pressure standard for 5.56, but CIP puts it at 62.2K vs SAAMI 55.1K for 223. QL is just a data point; sometimes close with some rounds, sometimes way off............ I don't use TAC & cannot comment on it, ditto for Lever; AR-Comp, 8208, 4895, 2000-MR, V V-133 /135 all get use depending on what I have the most of on hand. WC 844 is the powder generally used in M193 ammo & 8208 is a substitute with that 56 gr bullet. Stick, what velocity & what kind of accuracy does Lever yield in your guns? MM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116 |
It's faster than everything else,due the burnrate and it's density. ES/SD is dick nothing.
If she were citing Lever' in the application,I'd simply nod my head in concurence,but she's wayyyyyyyy down the totem pole as burnrates go and will smoke herself before it's over.
I shoot Lever' expressly in all my 223's,223AI's,270's,22 Grendels,6mm Grendels,22BR and 6BR's....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,127
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,127 |
The speed I got with Lever in my 223AI made me think my chronograph went haywire.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,352
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,352 |
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,127
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,127 |
Lotsa, I settled on 3500+ (don't have my notes here) with a 55 gr NBT and under MOA accuracy with my Kimber Montana in 223AI (factory punched tube). I bested my TAC load in vanilla 223/5.56 by 50-100 fps with 55's and 77's.
I sold the rifle to a good friend of mine and he used my data and was within single digits on his chronograph. I have a 204 Ruger and a 22-250AI both in Montana's and didn't really need the 223 so I let him have it and really kinda regret the sale but it went to a good home. I also let him have my supply of Lever and figured I'd burn through the 2 jugs of TAC I had then make the switch for good, one jug of TAC left...
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,352
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,352 |
Did you try it with heavies? 75 grains +?
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,567
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,567 |
Lotsa, I settled on 3500+ (don't have my notes here) with a 55 gr NBT and under MOA accuracy with my Kimber Montana in 223AI (factory punched tube). I bested my TAC load in vanilla 223/5.56 by 50-100 fps with 55's and 77's.
I sold the rifle to a good friend of mine and he used my data and was within single digits on his chronograph. I have a 204 Ruger and a 22-250AI both in Montana's and didn't really need the 223 so I let him have it and really kinda regret the sale but it went to a good home. I also let him have my supply of Lever and figured I'd burn through the 2 jugs of TAC I had then make the switch for good, one jug of TAC left... So did you use it in an AR or not?...........can't clearly decipher whether you did or not from the above. If so, how was functioning, gassing, ejection, brass, etc. What were your loads? MM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116 |
Lever' shines brightest,with heavies. 75/88's and 105s.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,567
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,567 |
From the burn rate, that's an obvious conclusion..........................& I shoot more >75's & greater than all others combined in an AR.
Maybe I missed you posting it, but how much are you stuffin' in the case to drive the 75's?
MM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116 |
26.5grs is a nice place to be in Krunchentickers,SALAMI boltguns and 223AI 75gr Form Loads.
Takes some beatings outta the micrometer stem on my powder thrower...................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,127
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,127 |
So did you use it in an AR or not?...........can't clearly decipher whether you did or not from the above.
If so, how was functioning, gassing, ejection, brass, etc. What were your loads?
MM
Yes I did use it in an AR "vanilla 223" and it functioned fine, just as Stick says. I don't have notes with me but I'll try and remember to post what I tried. It definitely beat TAC in both 55's and 77's. I don't use adjustable gas blocks and have Colt carbine gassed guns as well as a couple of mid length gassed guns, it ran fine in both systems. My guns use H or H2 buffers, nothing exotic nor do you need to tune anything. Stick mentioned it a few bazillion times on the other forum and I just had to see for myself, I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, thanks Stick.
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