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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354 |
[quote=lastround]H, There is no pill you can take or juice you can stick in your butt that will help you square up the baseball. If there was, I would have taken 2.  . FACT! They already knew hot to hit, that was a given. The drugs enabled them to do take it to another level. No one is saying different Battue. However you can't take an average or below average hitter and juice him to get him to their level of performance.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 926
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 926 |
[quote=lastround]H, There is no pill you can take or juice you can stick in your butt that will help you square up the baseball. If there was, I would have taken 2. . FACT! They already knew hot to hit, that was a given. The drugs enabled them to do take it to another level. No one is saying different Battue. However you can't take an average or below average hitter and juice him to get him to their level of performance. Which is just what he said
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 926
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 926 |
I think Jr. Griffey was clean. You think? Really? Griffey is as clean as them come. If only he could have stayed healthy. He would have been the greatest to ever play the game. He was magic. It was a treat to watch the sports every evening just to see what he did that day . On both sides of the ball Yes I think he was. I quit speaking in absolute since I found out about the tooth fairy 😉 so I didn’t say “ I know “ Agreed on the injuries. Would have been great to see what he might have done Mantle, who played in tremendous pain the majority of his career , probably would have rewritten a few records too.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Being an [bleep], betting and even roid use...wtf is the Hall of Fame for? Being a good guy? It is about being the best of the best in baseball. The last four should be in, unquestionably. Pete Rose owns the all-time hit record. Roger Maris owned the single-season HR record for years. It's a given both should be HOF'ers. I get that using roids is a no-no, but if somebody did, for long enough that it substantially affected their stats, then it's on the baseball officials. Same with spitballs, etc.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,364
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,364 |
I think Jr. Griffey was clean. You think? Really? Griffey is as clean as them come. If only he could have stayed healthy. He would have been the greatest to ever play the game. He was magic. It was a treat to watch the sports every evening just to see what he did that day . On both sides of the ball Yes I think he was. I quit speaking in absolute since I found out about the tooth fairy 😉 so I didn’t say “ I know “ Agreed on the injuries. Would have been great to see what he might have done Mantle, who played in tremendous pain the majority of his career , probably would have rewritten a few records too. Better knees and less booze and MM would have been the first to 715.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,364
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,364 |
Here's yesterday's voting. Shocked Billy Wagner didn't get more votes. 400 saves as a lefty? Come on!
Andrew Jones' career ended about 3 good years short. Came up when he as 18 or 19 and flung himself all over the field. He was the best CF ever. Willie Mays once said so. Amazing to see. I hope he'll get better consideration next year.
Sosa is NOT getting any love, that's for sure.
Mariano Rivera: 425 votes (100%) -- 1st year on ballot
Roy Halladay: 363 (85.4%) -- 1st
Edgar Martinez: 363 (85.4%) -- 10th
Mike Mussina: 326 (76.7%) -- 6th
Curt Schilling: 259 (60.9%) -- 6th
Roger Clemens: 253 (59.5%) -- 7th
Barry Bonds: 251 (59.1%) -- 7th
Larry Walker: 232 (54.6%) -- 9th
Omar Vizquel: 182 (42.8%) -- 2nd
Fred McGriff: 169 (39.8%) -- 10th
Manny Ramirez: 97 (22.8%) -- 3rd
Jeff Kent: 77 (18.1%) -- 6th
Billy Wagner: 71 (16.7%) -- 4th
Todd Helton: 70 (16.5%) -- 1st
Scott Rolen: 73 (17.2%) -- 2nd
Gary Sheffield: 58 (13.6%) -- 5th
Andy Pettitte: 42 (9.9%) -- 1st
Sammy Sosa: 36 (8.5%) -- 7th
Andruw Jones: 32 (7.5%) -- 2nd
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,193
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,193 |
Mariano Rivera got in with 100% of available votes. First unanimous choice ever! Because he was the best relief pitcher EVER.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,193
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,193 |
Roger Maris before any of those listed. After that, I would begin to give consideration to others. I like Maris, but lifetime .260 and and 275 homeruns is a good player, not great. I think that is the problem with the HOF, too many good players, should be reserved for the great players. Maris = Hall of Very Good I very well remember the 1961 season, the M&M boys....Mantle and Maris, and how badly I wanted Mickey to win the home run title. Roger Maris was a very good player over a handful of seasons, just not enough to get him into the HOF. Although, it can probably be argued that he was better than some who made it.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,682
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,682 |
I am ambivalent about DH's getting in. Their careers are undoubtedly prolonged by not having to play defense and it is often longevity that determines if one is Hall-worthy or not. Oh, Martinez could rake, no doubt about it; but what would his numbers have been if he'd been on the field? And how about the guys from pre-DH era whose careers were curtailed because injuries kept them from playing in the field? There were probably a bunch of guys who could have put up big numbers if the DH position had been in existence back in their day.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,053
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,053 |
I'd never vote for a steroid user.
Clemens was a .506 pitcher, 40W - 39L, during his last four years with Boston, 1993 - 1996, but he seems to have found the Fountain of Youth in Toronto, going 41W - 13L, .752, during the next two years and then 77W - 36L, .681, during the next four years in New York., and then 38W - 18L, .679, during the next three years with Houston. To recap, Clemens went through a four year drought and then went on to win 162 of his 352 games. That seems a bit suspicious to me.
He got Mr. Splitty working.  How many thousands of drought stories are there in sports? Droughts are commonplace, and certainly no proof of steroid use. Not saying Clemens didn't use. Many did. Just saying a drought, and recovery from thereof, is not proof of steroid use.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,053
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,053 |
H,
I’m not arguing with you about what you say about steroid use, just that for HOF induction, it can’t be the deciding factor. When I graduated from high school, I was 5’10” tall and weighed 170 lbs. By age 25 I was 6’0” and weighed 180 lbs. By age 35 I weighed 215 and was solid muscle. I have never taken any PED’s in my life. I just got older........... I have a minority view on the PED era. It was what it was. The best players form the era deserve to be in, in my opinion. There is no pill you can take or juice you can stick in your butt that will help you square up the baseball. If there was, I would have taken 2. I'd vote for Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Clemens. Palmiero? Now I have an issue with him. He took 'em, testified before Congress he never did, and then got busted for 'em AFTER testing begun. I keep him out because he is too stupid to be allowed in. Palmeiro really was a dumbass.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 926
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 926 |
I think Jr. Griffey was clean. . Mantle, who played in tremendous pain the majority of his career , probably would have rewritten a few records too. Better knees and less booze and MM would have been the first to 715. Absolutely
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