Since my last thread about winching out elk went colosseum style Fire fighting. Thought I would check in on the latest and greatest meat hauler you badasses are using to pack your animals out.
I have several, but my main hauler is a 25 year old pack frame I bought from Cabela’s. This pack has carried untold thousands of pounds of deer and elk. It’s been an excellent frame that provided me a balanced load with adequate weight distribution and good tie offs to secure the meat. A google search found my frame being sold at Walmart for $55 bucks. 25 years ago, I paid $99.99 on sale.
Last elk season I tried a different hauler that I hoped would work as a dual purpose gear pack and meat hauler. I wanted a pack I could load day hunt essentials and when I knocked an elk down, I could get a load of meat out on my first trip. Then come back on the next trip to the kill site with my older Cabela’s pack frame.
The Alps Outdoorz HybridX would have worked, except I couldn’t get it to fit me properly. After wearing for two initial scouting trips hiking in 6 miles each trip. I couldn’t escape the pain across the top of both my shoulders. Piercing pain that left me sore the day after wearing it.
This last picture shows the steep “bend” in the top straps that ride on the top of my traps. I’m hoping they’ll change their memory in time to fit me. If not this pack will be up for sale after antelope season.
Let’s hear about the types of pack frames and hybrid packs you all are using to get it done and what you like or hate about them. 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I mostly use one like the first one. Hoping Thor, Odin, Ragnar, Gunnar, Loki, Ivar and Nigel will handle those duties for me in the near future. Will try these pack goats out on deer for their first one.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
I run the Cabelas like you Mark. Growing up I remember using those green military ww2 packboards, oh shiit those sucked!!! Still got a couple out in the shop.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Since my last thread about winching out elk went colosseum style Fire fighting. Thought I would check in on the latest and greatest meat hauler you badasses are using to pack your animals out.
That did turn into an "I'm better than you" thread. I have killed a buttload of elk and although I like getting them out whole in a truck, you can't always do that. When I can't, a drag harness works, or I find the best pack is whatever your son uses...
I bought a Seek Outside Saker last year for my heavy duty humping. This pack separates from the frame to load the game bags of meat in between the pack and frame. Not one time did I separate the pack from the frame. I just piled the game bags of meat inside the pack and got to packing out. She hauled out a lot of meat this past fall.
Grew up using horses, and still do use them, but lately most of my elk have come out on my back. I use a Kifaru Reckoning (before that an Elberleestock X2) but once the first load is out I switch to a frame almost identical to the OP's, though the belt on mine is an older design.
My new Mystery Ranch Pintler performed well this year. I've also used an Eberlestock Main Frame and a Badlands 2200, the Pintler definitely earned a permanent spot.
Grew up using horses, and still do use them, but lately most of my elk have come out on my back. I use a Kifaru Reckoning (before that an Elberleestock X2) but once the first load is out I switch to a frame almost identical to the OP's, though the belt on mine is an older design.
Kifaru Reckoning for me too....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
It’s old-school suspension (not great), but it’s the toughest made in my opinion and I got tired of breaking other frames over the years so I tolerate that shortcoming for an otherwise great product.
Just picked up a Mystery Ranch Mule. Hoping to make it my “go-to” pack hence forth.
Dave
Last edited by iddave; 01/27/19.
If you're not burning through batteries in your headlamp,...you're doing it wrong.
Start out with Teton Sports Explorer, switch to a generic freighter that I bought at a garage sale. Someone told me it looks like a Stansport freighter.
I'm using the stone glacier 5900, I've been very happy with it, so far it's hauled out a couple bulls and some mule deer. before that I had kifaru and exo mountain, both great packs/companies, the SG just fits my needs better.
I appreciate all who are posting what pack haulers your using... I’m unfortunately having to consider running a new set up if I can’t get my alpz squared away in a few months. I’m writing down and doing the google on each one you guys have posted...Fricken Llamas are expensive. Grin 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
Maybe these kids will learn before their knees give out, eh?
Too many trips in too rough country, too many miles wading the rivers of Montana, cost me the knees. You are right and there is no getting them back...
Guy down the street from me has Llamas or Alpaca, hell if I know the difference. But I am envois I keep hoping one of these days he'll say hey if you ever need help packing out!
I built a game cart some years ago, but have only used it on one elk, and several deer. It works well, if the country is amenable to its use, and two guys are on it, one on each end. We used to plan to drag them out whole when I was younger, and we somehow got that done. I can't figure out how we did it now. The last several years (with one exception, where the cow was shot above a road, and I was able to get a rope around her neck and drag her fairly easily across the bunny-hill-sloped snow to the truck), it's been the gutless method in the field, two guys, 2-3 trips apiece to get the hide and meat to the ATV, then sewing the quarters and odds and ends into the hide and dragging the whole package behind the ATV to the truck.
My brother, with whom I nearly always hunt elk, uses a frame pack very similar to the OP's and was purchased from Cabelas, and I use a sturdy day pack that will hold an elk hind quarter in the main pocket, which I also secure to the top of the pack. I've thought about getting a frame pack, but the day pack works well enough. It is an Alps Outdoors, but I don't recall the model.
Getting elk out seems more intimidating that it used to. I'd love to have pack animals eventually. We'll see.
All depends on where it falls. I've used a game cart a few times in fairly level ground to get it to a logging road where we could get a vehicle in. I've packed out on an Alaskan II frame backpack from Cabela's through some pretty rough country. Used a backhoe, skid steer, tractor, bale bed on a pickup, ATV, UTV and of course pack horses. If have to say the mechanical ways are the easiest for me. If I do have to pack one out now I'll call some friends and my kids. Many hands make light work if you can get them.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
If no snow and on my back 1st load backstraps go into a plastic bag and into my day pack. Then I have a Bull Pac for the rest. If there is snow on the ground and the terrain allows it I bring in a plastic sled and slid it out. I have a deer drag harness that I hook it to and go
Guy down the street from me has Llamas or Alpaca, hell if I know the difference. But I am envois I keep hoping one of these days he'll say hey if you ever need help packing out!
Yes, goats are cheaper now and a lot easier to find. I tried goats before I got llamas and they worked fine but for my purposes, the llamas were better. I never packed any meat on the goats, though. Forget the alpacas. They're too small to do anything. They're just for growing hair to make your soft underwear.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Goats are definitely cheaper. For the seven I bought last year, they varied from $35 to $175 initial purchase price. Of course I have a lot more than that in them now. I think I was spending $8 a day bottle feeding and am around $200 per month in hay and grain at 10 months old. I don't have any significant pasture and will cut the grain down further by hunting season. Started at 6-9 pounds each and 4 of the 7 are over 150 right now (maybe even 160ish), 1 isn't far back, 1 has never really caught up to the others after a rough birth (one of quads and his three brothers died at birth) and is only 120 or so. I'll get real weights this March at the vets instead of using heart girth tape measurements. Also, spent about $600 on a livestock hauling rack for the back of my truck. Makes it super easy to load them up and head up into some neighboring BLM for weekly hikes. Several will load themselves when they know it's time. Also am in close to a grand on packs for the goats, and those are just their starter packs. Still need some tarp shelters and lines for camp, but will figure that out this summer.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
For goat saddles, a guy with any woodworking skills can make them easily. Just buy 1 commercial one and duplicate it. As long as you don't sell them, there's no patent infringement, if they're even patented. You might need to buy rigging, though, if you don't have a heavy duty sewing machine.
Goats, llamas, mules, whatever. God made animals for our use so use them. They can make life a lot easier and a LOT more fun.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
Last 3 bulls were hauled out solo with an Eberlestock Mainframe. Love that thing, fits like a glove and hauls a serious load. I have a couple "Batwings" on it and use it for a day pack and have it with me when I need it. Before that an old Moose Freighter Frame - got about 25 years out of that one before it started falling apart.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
Stone Glacier for me. I've had Mystery Ranch and Kifaru too, also very good. Not sure how many 100+ lb loads it's hauled, but more than a handful; these three from last fall.
Yes, a 30+ year old Sierra pack frame, but without the shelf. That and about 15 feet of line. Took the bag off and left it in the wilderness with it's first use. Done well from moose to pronghorn. Haven't nailed a buffalo yet.
Last 3 bulls were hauled out solo with an Eberlestock Mainframe. Love that thing, fits like a glove and hauls a serious load. I have a couple "Batwings" on it and use it for a day pack and have it with me when I need it. Before that an old Moose Freighter Frame - got about 25 years out of that one before it started falling apart.
Can you add a rifle scabbard to it as well??? Frame, Batwing pouches, and a scabbard seems like a good set up for me...The first load out for me when I’m miles deep would be a quarter and the rifle. Dump the rifle after the first trip along with the scabbard. 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
Guy down the street from me has Llamas or Alpaca, hell if I know the difference. But I am envois I keep hoping one of these days he'll say hey if you ever need help packing out!
Yes, goats are cheaper now and a lot easier to find. I tried goats before I got llamas and they worked fine but for my purposes, the llamas were better. I never packed any meat on the goats, though. Forget the alpacas. They're too small to do anything. They're just for growing hair to make your soft underwear.
I guess the guy down the road has Llamas then, his aren't small. He told me they are good watch dogs too.
Stone Glacier Approach 1800. Hauled 3 elk on the SG and 4 on an Eberlestock Dragonfly. Prefer how the SG keeps the load closer to my body vs. the E-stock.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
My elk hunting days are behind me, but I never found anything better than my rancher friend's pack horses. Something that I did to modify my deer hauling pack frame would probably work real well for your elk meat packing frames. I took a front wheel off a junk wheelchair and bolted it below the pack frame rails between two short pieces of aluminum angle. When my shoulders get tired, I can wheel the back pack like a wheelbarrow. Also a Simpson capstan rope winch will get anything you shoot out of a canyon and it only weighs 16 pounds.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Beaver10, I thought that capstan winch you described was the coolest thing I've seen in a while. I don't recall seeing any photos of yours. I'm surprised you would need anything else if you have that.
Alamosa, I will post a pic tomorrow of the set up and rope bag I put together...I wish I could get my Capstan on all my animals. Unfortunately, their are times good old 2 legged horse power is the required tool for the job. Grin 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
Out of 16, or 17 elk that I have killed over the years, I have never been close enough to use a vehicle for any of them. I have always used the Cabela's Outfitter pack for my off-road deer, antelope and elk hunts. The heaviest load that I ever had in one, was 110 pounds. I retired one years ago, that I figured had hauled out 1500 pounds of meat, or so. It now supports a backpack sprayer.
I did haul a couple out on a plastic sled, which is definitely the way to go, if there is enough snow to support it. I have kicked it loose on steep slopes and restarted my hike 200 yards later.
I always bone out the meat and leave the heavy bones in the hills for the critters. Never saw the reason to haul out something that I was going to throw away when I got home, anyway.
I am pretty much done with the hunting in treacherous country, as I get clumsier every year. There have been a couple hunts/pack-outs over the years, where I have questioned my sanity, for being there alone and in grizz country to boot!
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
For you goat owners. What breed is best suited for hauling? And outside of initial purchase, how much do they run you dollar wise to keep. Just curious. Once upon a time I was thinking of a couple of solid Rottweilers or maybe mastiffs that were cart trained would be handy. Not sure if picking up three pound dog turds would outweigh throwing hay bales.
Any of the large dairy breeds will work. Popular ones are Alpine, Toggenburg, Saanen, Lamancha, Oberhasli or many crossbreeds. Stay away from the popular meat breed Boer. They have short legs and their backs are so flat that saddles will slip. I haven't raised goats for a while and can't remember how much they eat.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Side note, nothing works better than bungee cords for securing meat to a packboatd, or a quad....
Last edited by Judman; 01/31/19.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
I packed with an ALICE for years. God I hate that pack. Get a new pack that holds the load more vertically and close in and has load lifters. You'll thank me.
Those with bungees and ratchet straps just need to learn a trucker's hitch and carry para cord.
I packed with an ALICE for years. God I hate that pack. Get a new pack that holds the load more vertically and close in and has load lifters. You'll thank me.
Those with bungees and ratchet straps just need to learn a trucker's hitch and carry para cord.
Good idea...I can still cut the paracord off my pack when my trucker’s hitch turns into a square knot. 😜
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I packed with an ALICE for years. God I hate that pack. Get a new pack that holds the load more vertically and close in and has load lifters. You'll thank me.
Those with bungees and ratchet straps just need to learn a trucker's hitch and carry para cord.
Good idea...I can still cut the paracord off my pack when my trucker’s hitch turns into a square knot. 😜
And there's that. I go through miles of the stuff. It's used to keep elk from sliding, hang quarters if being left, tie up quarters for dragging, and tying onto the pack. It's super light, cheap, ties well, and it's strong. It cuts into your hands if you pull it so you have to fashion a handle or something if you want to pull on it.
Our local Ace Hardware sells roll ends of paracord, 4 100' coils for $10. Colors are mixed and some coils will be varying color. At that price, you can use it for anything. I don't know if all Ace's have it, though.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Our local Ace Hardware sells roll ends of paracord, 4 100' coils for $10. Colors are mixed and some coils will be varying color. At that price, you can use it for anything. I don't know if all Ace's have it, though.
I buy 100 ft lengths of new clothes line at Walmart. Not as strong as paracord, but never had it break
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
...I have kicked it loose on steep slopes and restarted my hike 200 yards later...
This reminded me of a spike bull that I killed one year high up on a fairly open, steep mountain. After I field dressed the bull I started to drag him down the mountain. It was steep enough that after I would drag him a few yards, he would start sliding faster than I wanted to stay in front of him, so I would step aside and he would keep sliding down until he would pile up on a tree. I'd then get down to him and repeat the process. After doing that several times I decided to get him sliding, then to jump on him and ride him down, and to jump off just before he would hit a tree.
The mountain was steep enough for a good half mile that I was able to "ride" that elk down almost to the bottom. When I got to the bottom I walked the couple of miles back to my camp where I got my horses and they carried him out the rest of the way.
Our local Ace Hardware sells roll ends of paracord, 4 100' coils for $10. Colors are mixed and some coils will be varying color. At that price, you can use it for anything. I don't know if all Ace's have it, though.
I buy 100 ft lengths of new clothes line at Walmart. Not as strong as paracord, but never had it break
“Mule Tape” was mentioned before...It’s extremely strong for many field uses, and light....Amazon or eBay 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I've often thought that if I could get (2) 1000 ft spools of paracord or something similar I'd like to try rigging a reverse zipline with a suspension line and a haul line.
Hmmm, not sure about that Al. Think I’m gonna stay with tying quarters on my pack with the stuff. Would love to see you do it though 😎
Aside, I forgot to take pictures of my Capstan set up today before I left town for a few days...I’ve gotten a few PM’s asking to see what I’m using...Have to wait until I get back home...😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I've often thought that if I could get (2) 1000 ft spools of paracord or something similar I'd like to try rigging a reverse zipline with a suspension line and a haul line.
A zipline needs a cable FAR stronger than the weight being moved, plus the posts at both ends have to be extremely strong. It wouldn't take much weight at all to break a 1000' paracord stretched between 2 trees. I've long since forgotten the math involved but a weight hanging in the middle of a stretched cable will exert far more tension on both sides of the rope than it would if it was just hanging straight down on the cable. The tighter the cable, the greater the stress on each side. A poor man's winch can be rigged with a cable between a stuck car and an anchor by getting the cable as tight as possible then pulling at a 90 degree angle in the middle of the cable.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Someone asked me the other day if alpacas could be used for packing. In short, don't bother. They don't have the bone structure for carrying weight plus they're just too small. Goats or llamas will do you a much better job and cost a lot less. I wouldn't put more than 15 to 20 lb on an alpaca. They'll be more prone to injury on the trail than either llamas or goats because of their light bone structure and they cost too much to risk injury like that.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I've long since forgotten the math involved but a weight hanging in the middle of a stretched cable will exert far more tension on both sides of the rope than it would if it was just hanging straight down on the cable.
Here's 1 site with something to play with. There are others. It's been 50 years since I had to calculate anything like that and I've long forgotten how it's done. HANGING MASS
This is also important when stretching a rope between 2 trees for hanging meat...or a hammock. A person's weight in a tightly stretched hammock will put significantly more stress on the ropes than a with a sagging hammock.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I've long since forgotten the math involved but a weight hanging in the middle of a stretched cable will exert far more tension on both sides of the rope than it would if it was just hanging straight down on the cable.
I'd like to see the ciphering behind that.
I think it's a leverage thing, maybe someone will explain.
I do know this.
It you are using a rope to control how a tree falls.
You can put more force on the tree if you tie the rope to something than if you just pull on the end.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
For you goat owners. What breed is best suited for hauling? And outside of initial purchase, how much do they run you dollar wise to keep. Just curious. Once upon a time I was thinking of a couple of solid Rottweilers or maybe mastiffs that were cart trained would be handy. Not sure if picking up three pound dog turds would outweigh throwing hay bales.
Sorry I missed this. I use Alpine and Alpine crosses. I think they are the easiest to find with good size. If I bred my own I would do Alpines hybridized with any of the Swiss type breeds (Alpine, Toggenburg, Oberhasli, Saanen). Two of my best kids are Saanen and Togg crosses.
Plan about $30-$40 per goat for feed per month. I run pretty close to $200 for my 7 each month. You may not need or want 7, but my hope was to be able to handle a camp for 2-3 guys and one elk out on the same trip. 6 would probably do that.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
For you goat owners. What breed is best suited for hauling? And outside of initial purchase, how much do they run you dollar wise to keep. Just curious. Once upon a time I was thinking of a couple of solid Rottweilers or maybe mastiffs that were cart trained would be handy. Not sure if picking up three pound dog turds would outweigh throwing hay bales.
Sorry I missed this. I use Alpine and Alpine crosses. I think they are the easiest to find with good size. If I bred my own I would do Alpines hybridized with any of the Swiss type breeds (Alpine, Toggenburg, Oberhasli, Saanen). Two of my best kids are Saanen and Togg crosses.
Plan about $30-$40 per goat for feed per month. I run pretty close to $200 for my 7 each month. You may not need or want 7, but my hope was to be able to handle a camp for 2-3 guys and one elk out on the same trip. 6 would probably do that.
Just for comparison, my 5 llamas will eat a bit less than 1/2 bale of grass hay a day, total. Grass hay bales usually run in the 70 to 80lb range so a ton will last about 50 days. Right now around here grass hay is selling for about $9/bale or $225/ton. That works out to about $25 to 27/llama/month. They have an extremely efficient feed conversion rate and will eat far less per lb of body weight than most other large animals. You can feed them alfalfa but they get too fat on it. In the spring, you have to work harder to get the fat off to get them in shape for packing.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
For you goat owners. What breed is best suited for hauling? And outside of initial purchase, how much do they run you dollar wise to keep. Just curious. Once upon a time I was thinking of a couple of solid Rottweilers or maybe mastiffs that were cart trained would be handy. Not sure if picking up three pound dog turds would outweigh throwing hay bales.
Sorry I missed this. I use Alpine and Alpine crosses. I think they are the easiest to find with good size. If I bred my own I would do Alpines hybridized with any of the Swiss type breeds (Alpine, Toggenburg, Oberhasli, Saanen). Two of my best kids are Saanen and Togg crosses.
Plan about $30-$40 per goat for feed per month. I run pretty close to $200 for my 7 each month. You may not need or want 7, but my hope was to be able to handle a camp for 2-3 guys and one elk out on the same trip. 6 would probably do that.
Just for comparison, my 5 llamas will eat a bit less than 1/2 bale of grass hay a day, total. Grass hay bales usually run in the 70 to 80lb range so a ton will last about 50 days. Right now around here grass hay is selling for about $9/bale or $225/ton. That works out to about $25 to 27/llama/month. They have an extremely efficient feed conversion rate and will eat far less per lb of body weight than most other large animals. You can feed them alfalfa but they get too fat on it. In the spring, you have to work harder to get the fat off to get them in shape for packing.
I’m primarily feeding alfalfa right now to get some growth in the kids. I also supplement grain and calf manna. They are getting big
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
Over the last 12+ years my hauler's have mostly been an Osprey Crescent 90 or an Arcteryx Bora 80... I prefer the Bora.
Brad, Nice bull!
Honest question, not posted at you directly, but for anyone who does a solo pack in hunt with a bedroom on their back.
How much elk meat are guys packing out in one trip?
Example, I’ve packed out quarters, meat pack, cape and horns so many times I’ve lost count...It’s taken me at least 4 trips, sometimes a 5th to finish up...When I’ve done a 100% boning, I’m at 2 very heavy loads. But, I’m a scavenger....I take everything, rib meat, neck and brisket sheets, shank meat. Are you guys forced to leave the grind meat behind for one and done trips? 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
Nobody is going to bone one clean and do it in one trip. An adult cow will have more than 150lb of meat on it, maybe pushing 200 on a real big one. An adult bull will be considerably heavier.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Honest question, not posted at you directly, but for anyone who does a solo pack in hunt with a bedroom on their back.
How much elk meat are guys packing out in one trip?
Example, I’ve packed out quarters, meat pack, cape and horns so many times I’ve lost count...It’s taken me at least 4 trips, sometimes a 5th to finish up...When I’ve done a 100% boning, I’m at 2 very heavy loads. But, I’m a scavenger....I take everything, rib meat, neck and brisket sheets, shank meat. Are you guys forced to leave the grind meat behind for one and done trips? 😎
Beaver, you are an animal!
It takes two horses to carry a bull out. The only bone we leave in is the femurs. A horse can carry a three hundred pound man pretty well. But 200 lb of dead weight on a pack saddle is a pretty hard and fast rule. Unless you are packing on a Belgian, I suppose. Never saw anybody try that.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
The above packs are the first pack-out, and contain all my backpack gear, ie., tent, sleeping bag, food, clothes, etc., plus antlers, loins, and tenderloins. Then it's back in over the coming days to take out the rest of the meat. Generally 3 additional trips.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The above packs are the first pack-out, and contain all my backpack gear, ie., tent, sleeping bag, food, clothes, etc., plus antlers, loins, and tenderloins. Then it's back in over the coming days to take out the rest of the meat. Generally 3 additional trips.
Honest question for you Brad. Why do you pack out camp first?
I pack out camp last. For a couple of reasons at least in my mind. One I rather get the meat out of there as fast as possible. Two I still have a camp should I want to take a rest or be forced to due to weather.
I am interested in hearing your reason. Please don't take this as me questioning you. I am not.
Honest question for you Brad. Why do you pack out camp first?
DJ outI pack out camp last. For a couple of reasons at least in my mind. One I rather get the meat out of there as fast as possible. Two I still have a camp should I want to take a rest or be forced to due to weather.
I am interested in hearing your reason. Please don't take this as me questioning you. I am not.
No offense taken at all!
This is grizzly country... I frankly don’t fancy leaving $1,000 worth of gear out to get inspected by a bear. I’ve run across several bears in this area. Other spots I’d leave the camp, but not here. Regardless, this area is high enough that even in warm-ish weather the meat is fine if stashed in shade. A lot of the reasoning depends on the spot. I don’t think there’s a “right” answer.
Another pack out:
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Brad I hunt a place on the Rocky Mountain Front with Griz. I guess I have gotten lucky they have never messed with my camp. But I also don't eat there or leave food there. I have been thinking about getting one of those electric fences. I think the fence would be good for wolves too, piece of mind while sleeping. My buddy and I were packing out his elk last season and there were a pack very close to use, though we never did see them. Lucky for me I do most of my hunting here in the Bitterroot so haven't had to deal with Griz yet. Though I know it won't be long before they are here too. Thanks for the response.
Brad I hunt a place on the Rocky Mountain Front with Griz. I guess I have gotten lucky they have never messed with my camp. But I also don't eat there or leave food there. I have been thinking about getting one of those electric fences. I think the fence would be good for wolves too, piece of mind while sleeping. My buddy and I were packing out his elk last season and there were a pack very close to use, though we never did see them. Lucky for me I do most of my hunting here in the Bitterroot so haven't had to deal with Griz yet. Though I know it won't be long before they are here too. Thanks for the response.
We don't have griz here but we do have blackies and cougars and we're certainly not short on wolves. The local paper reported the other day that 2 dogs have been killed by cats in the area we hunt in just the last 2 weeks. I've had to leave meat out overnight a number of times and so far I've been lucky that nothing has found it. It's always a crap shoot that way. The books all say to hang meat at least 10' up and suspended between trees. I'm assuming the authors have never actually tried it with an elk.
Electric fences do work for bears but they're heavy and expensive. The net type work better than the ribbon type but they're almost double the weight and bulk plus costing considerably more. None that I've seen are high enough to keep a wolf or cat from jumping over it. I don't know if a wolf would try to jump one but it easily could if it tried. You'd probably need a 6' fence to be safe from them.
Interesting story about leaving meat overnight: a couple years ago, my partner shot a deer 3 miles back. We're not young bucks anymore (we were 67 & 70 at the time) and we can't backpack meat like you young'uns. This was llama work. We got it into deep shade, skinned it, and laid the deer on the hide. We laid the heart and liver next to it and spread a couple meat bags over it, then covered it with pine boughs. The next morning we came up with the llamas. The pine boughs were still on it but the meat bags were pulled out from under them and dragged 5 yds to the side. The heart and liver were gone but nothing else was touched. We couldn't find a single tooth mark on the carcass. A bear or wolf would have likely eaten from it. The missing giblets was the puzzle. It was too grassy to find any tracks. We figured it was a pine martin or maybe a fox.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Brad I hunt a place on the Rocky Mountain Front with Griz. I guess I have gotten lucky they have never messed with my camp. But I also don't eat there or leave food there. I have been thinking about getting one of those electric fences. I think the fence would be good for wolves too, piece of mind while sleeping. My buddy and I were packing out his elk last season and there were a pack very close to use, though we never did see them. Lucky for me I do most of my hunting here in the Bitterroot so haven't had to deal with Griz yet. Though I know it won't be long before they are here too. Thanks for the response.
The front is loaded with bear. It's time for the control to get shifted to the state for sure. A guy that worked for me is from the front. He got charged 3 or 4 years ago by a boar, and had to put it down.
Another friend used to guide in the Hellroaring area North of Yellowstone used electric fence around the camp because of bears. Course, they were horsepacking.
Like you I keep a clean camp, but I know a curious bear can still wreak havoc on a camp. Regardless, I've never lost an elk to a bear, or any other predator.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I doubt that griz control will ever get turned over to the states. The recent court decision shutting down the hunting shows the anti's are firmly in control. They got blind sided on the wolf hunting and they learned their lesson. It won't happen again.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Back when I had horses I used to hunt the mountains north of West Yellowstone, MT. Some years we, or I, would pack in a camp, other years we would camp at the end of the road. One of the end of road sites had a small (1/4 acre) meadow below the road which was a great place to enclose with an electric wire for the horses. One morning when I walked around checking the wire, I found tracks where during the night a grizzly had walked right up to the wire. He must have touched the wire with his wet nose as the tracks immediately turned and showed that he had run away from it.
Another night we heard a loud commotion from the horses and by the time we got out of the tent to check them they were gone. At daylight the next morning I found tracks where a moose had gone through the wire on one side of the meadow and the horses had gone through it on the other side. I tracked the horses to the far side of an old Forest Service clearcut a mile or more from camp.
It takes two horses to carry a bull out. The only bone we leave in is the femurs. A horse can carry a three hundred pound man pretty well. But 200 lb of dead weight on a pack saddle is a pretty hard and fast rule. Unless you are packing on a Belgian, I suppose. Never saw anybody try that.
She's not a Belgian, but my Percheron cross has carried a few bulls out in one trip. 4 quarters, tender loins, back straps, and horns. Bone in. Doesn't seem to even be a little bit of an issue. I guess none of them were the World's biggest bulls. One was my busted up 6 point from this fall. There are actually quite a few drafts and draft crosses being used to ride and pack or both like mine. Crosses are kind of a fad right now, but outfitters have been using them for years.
I've packed more than a few loads on full percherons. Only real issue is I'm 5'9" and the tops of those loads is a lot higher than that.
I'd rather have two for it but one if big enough and in shape can and does do the job.
My first elk hunt back in about 1966, we rented two full percherons, 17 hds. First day of the season, we killed three bulls.Those two percherons carried all three out in one trip. One was 36 and the other 26 according to the old sheep rancher we rented them from. At 5'-6" I had a hard time even helping load them. Yea,the outfitters I know use them for guys that say they are 220 #'s and show up just shy of 300
Last edited by saddlesore; 02/04/19.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
For you goat owners. What breed is best suited for hauling? And outside of initial purchase, how much do they run you dollar wise to keep. Just curious. Once upon a time I was thinking of a couple of solid Rottweilers or maybe mastiffs that were cart trained would be handy. Not sure if picking up three pound dog turds would outweigh throwing hay bales.
Sorry I missed this. I use Alpine and Alpine crosses. I think they are the easiest to find with good size. If I bred my own I would do Alpines hybridized with any of the Swiss type breeds (Alpine, Toggenburg, Oberhasli, Saanen). Two of my best kids are Saanen and Togg crosses.
Plan about $30-$40 per goat for feed per month. I run pretty close to $200 for my 7 each month. You may not need or want 7, but my hope was to be able to handle a camp for 2-3 guys and one elk out on the same trip. 6 would probably do that.
Just for comparison, my 5 llamas will eat a bit less than 1/2 bale of grass hay a day, total. Grass hay bales usually run in the 70 to 80lb range so a ton will last about 50 days. Right now around here grass hay is selling for about $9/bale or $225/ton. That works out to about $25 to 27/llama/month. They have an extremely efficient feed conversion rate and will eat far less per lb of body weight than most other large animals. You can feed them alfalfa but they get too fat on it. In the spring, you have to work harder to get the fat off to get them in shape for packing.
Thanks both of you. Do Llamas get spooky with bear carcasses or lion? I’ve heard that they are good at keeping predators away like coyotes or wolves. Is this true or fake news.
I can't answer that. Mine have never been near a bear or a lion. I suspect, though, that they'd be skittish at first but calm right down. That's what they normally do with anything new. Being near a predator might be different, though. I'd bet, though, that they'd deal with it better than a horse. They're calmer by nature.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
According to the fella down the road from me. They aren't scared of much. What much entails I don't know. He did tell me he uses them for bear hunting. So I will just assume his anyways are callous to it.
69 year old flatlander and I’ve been going out to Colorado for 20 plus years. We have some good hills in our neighborhood that I jog on and it seems like every year I think, “I should have done some more hills in my workout.”😀
I don’t think I’ll be able to go this year because the ticker has been acting up. I go to the hospital tomorrow morning for an EP Study and possible ablation, pacemaker or ICD. Heart trouble runs in the family 😕
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
It takes two horses to carry a bull out. The only bone we leave in is the femurs. A horse can carry a three hundred pound man pretty well. But 200 lb of dead weight on a pack saddle is a pretty hard and fast rule. Unless you are packing on a Belgian, I suppose. Never saw anybody try that.
She's not a Belgian, but my Percheron cross has carried a few bulls out in one trip. 4 quarters, tender loins, back straps, and horns. Bone in. Doesn't seem to even be a little bit of an issue. I guess none of them were the World's biggest bulls. One was my busted up 6 point from this fall. There are actually quite a few drafts and draft crosses being used to ride and pack or both like mine. Crosses are kind of a fad right now, but outfitters have been using them for years.
I've packed more than a few loads on full percherons. Only real issue is I'm 5'9" and the tops of those loads is a lot higher than that.
I'd rather have two for it but one if big enough and in shape can and does do the job.
Is that Percheron cross the one you're going to plant me on for sheep?
This was a pretty handy hauler last Tuesday... makes for a nice clean piece of meat with zero wastage... I’ve hauled enough of em out in little pieces to appreciate the easy ones when they happen.... good grocery trip.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
This was a pretty handy hauler last Tuesday... makes for a nice clean piece of meat with zero wastage... I’ve hauled enough of em out in little pieces to appreciate the easy ones when they happen.... good grocery trip.
I've only been able to use a motorized vehicle 1 time. A few years ago, my partner and I got 2 cows up on a snow covered hillside. We were able to skid them to the bottom in a foot of snow, then drive my pickup about 1/4 mile through sagebrush to get them.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Nobody using the Barney's pack? No not the purple Barney, the Barneys Sport Chalet in Anchorge backpack. I haven't used it for elk but have for sheep and caribou in Alaska. Should have had it for the moose instead of the Alice!!
Yep, my old Cabela’s Alaskan Guide freighter is still the most comfortable hauler I own. I’ve tried to replace it a couple times with dual-use pack-haulers and end up disappointed in the comfort. Still looking...At least I own a frame that handles heavy loads comfortably. Sometimes they get it right the first time, albeit 25 years ago. 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
Yep, my old Cabela’s Alaskan Guide freighter is still the most comfortable hauler I own. I’ve tried to replace it a couple times with dual-use pack-haulers and end up disappointed in the comfort. Still looking...At least I own a frame that handles heavy loads comfortably. Sometimes they get it right the first time, albeit 25 years ago. 😎
It takes two horses to carry a bull out. The only bone we leave in is the femurs. A horse can carry a three hundred pound man pretty well. But 200 lb of dead weight on a pack saddle is a pretty hard and fast rule. Unless you are packing on a Belgian, I suppose. Never saw anybody try that.
She's not a Belgian, but my Percheron cross has carried a few bulls out in one trip. 4 quarters, tender loins, back straps, and horns. Bone in. Doesn't seem to even be a little bit of an issue. I guess none of them were the World's biggest bulls. One was my busted up 6 point from this fall. There are actually quite a few drafts and draft crosses being used to ride and pack or both like mine. Crosses are kind of a fad right now, but outfitters have been using them for years.
I've packed more than a few loads on full percherons. Only real issue is I'm 5'9" and the tops of those loads is a lot higher than that.
I'd rather have two for it but one if big enough and in shape can and does do the job.
Is that Percheron cross the one you're going to plant me on for sheep?
It takes two horses to carry a bull out. The only bone we leave in is the femurs. A horse can carry a three hundred pound man pretty well. But 200 lb of dead weight on a pack saddle is a pretty hard and fast rule. Unless you are packing on a Belgian, I suppose. Never saw anybody try that.
She's not a Belgian, but my Percheron cross has carried a few bulls out in one trip. 4 quarters, tender loins, back straps, and horns. Bone in. Doesn't seem to even be a little bit of an issue. I guess none of them were the World's biggest bulls. One was my busted up 6 point from this fall. There are actually quite a few drafts and draft crosses being used to ride and pack or both like mine. Crosses are kind of a fad right now, but outfitters have been using them for years.
I've packed more than a few loads on full percherons. Only real issue is I'm 5'9" and the tops of those loads is a lot higher than that.
I'd rather have two for it but one if big enough and in shape can and does do the job.
Is that Percheron cross the one you're going to plant me on for sheep?
No she's too gentle for you. You'd get bored.
You greatly overestimate my ability to sit a horse...and to draw a sheep tag!
One year old next month with their packs on for the first time today. 5 Marc Warnke signature series kid packs and two 20-25 year old Caprine Supply packs from when I was a kid.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
What’s the trick to keeping them following along, tether them? My luck as a first time Shepherd, I would have these suckers scattered all over a mountain side to the point I’d be so frustrated, I just start shooting them hoping some would get the message that Noah ain’t playing around with loading the Ark. 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
What’s the trick to keeping them following along, tether them? My luck as a first time Shepherd, I would have these suckers scattered all over a mountain side to the point I’d be so frustrated, I just start shooting them hoping some would get the message that Noah ain’t playing around with loading the Ark. 😎
You might not have the genetics for shepherding.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Them goats would taste better than the elk they are packing!
I've eaten a lot of both. There really isn't much difference between them assuming the meat is properly cared for. Both are very low in fat since they don't marble.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
What’s the trick to keeping them following along, tether them? My luck as a first time Shepherd, I would have these suckers scattered all over a mountain side to the point I’d be so frustrated, I just start shooting them hoping some would get the message that Noah ain’t playing around with loading the Ark. 😎
Bottle feeding. They are bonded to me and so far at least, wouldn’t think of getting out of sight. Only time I’ve ever leashes them was for training creek crossing. I’ve yet to tie them up at night for camping but that is coming. They come when called too.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
What’s the trick to keeping them following along, tether them? My luck as a first time Shepherd, I would have these suckers scattered all over a mountain side to the point I’d be so frustrated, I just start shooting them hoping some would get the message that Noah ain’t playing around with loading the Ark. 😎
Bottle feeding. They are bonded to me and so far at least, wouldn’t think of getting out of sight. Only time I’ve ever leashes them was for training creek crossing. I’ve yet to tie them up at night for camping but that is coming. They come when called too.
Here's an interesting contrast between goats and llamas. The WORST thing you can do with a baby male llama is get it bonded to you. Males that bond later get what's called Berserk Llama Syndrome. Males constantly fight for dominance and they play rough. At about 18 months, they start hitting sexual maturity and they start the dominance fighting. If they've bonded, they can't differentiate between people and other llamas and they will fight the people, too. It's a pain at best and they can get dangerous. Castrating doesn't help and they never get over it.
I have one of them like that. I took him off the hands of a young couple with kids before someone got hurt. He was 2 at the time. I told them that I'd try to make a packer out of him but if I failed, we'd eat him. They were glad to see him go. He's big and has turned into a pretty decent packer but I never take my eyes off of him in the pasture. He could chest bump me and knock me flat. He's twice my weight. I treat him rough and he respects me. He'll try to get in my way when I'm doing something and I knee him in the belly. I've whacked him with a stick many times. Llamas constantly push, bite, and spit at each other so I'm not doing anything they don't do themselves. I put up with his nonsense because he's a good packer but I always keep him in the lead where I can control him. You don't put your best llama in the lead. You put the worst one there where you have him in hand if he pulls any stunts. You put the best one in back somewhere where he can help keep the others in line.
This might turn off some people to llamas but it's just a matter of learning the animals before you get into it. A llama raised normally will never get this. It's bottle fed ones or ones that are handled a lot as babies that are the problem. You can halter train a baby without a problem. It's the petting and cuddling that brings it on. Let Mama raise him normally and you'll never see it.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Here's a classic example of what a Berserk llama will do. A normal llama won't come up to you like this one is at the beginning. The action starts in the 2d half. It's titled 'Funny llama attack' but there's nothing funny about it. It's a defective llama and a dangerous situation.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
No doubt goats can be as dangerous, especially with horns. I’ve flipped two of mine to discipline them. It’s apparently a centuries old technique to reassert dominance without hitting them. Hitting them often just antagonizes them into more head butting. Both flips were for minor offenses but things that could lead to dangerous situations if left unchecked. I have no concerns with my 2.5 year old son amongst the goats yet, but things could develop, as with any animal and it’s worth keeping an eye on. But unlike horses and llamas, bottle fed goats rarely need to be lead, they will follow you anywhere.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
Some llama packers will turn them loose to graze but I haven't had the nerve to try it. Sometime I might try turning a couple loose with 20' leads and keeping the rest tethered. They stick together pretty well so a couple likely won't go far.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
While stalking and sneaking through the elk woods, I hate having a pack on my back. I believe it really helps my stealth mode to hunt that way.
When I make a kill, I'll prep the animal and haul a ham or shoulder like in the above photo on my way back to camp then return with my backpack to take out the next load.
Maybe not right, but just my way of doing it.
I do however need a better pack than my old metal framed hauler.
I never leave camp without a light day pack with enough gear to spend a cold night out if necessary. If I score, I'll gut and skin it, then leave it whole to stiffen up. Meanwhile, I go back to camp for my llamas. For more tender meat, I give them as much time as possible to cool and go into rigor. It's better if they come out of rigor before boning, but that can take several days. I've left them whole in the field overnight many times and that makes the best meat of all. Of course there are bears and wolves to consider but so far I've been lucky.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I have a good sized fanny pack with all of my butchering utensils and fire starting/survival gear in it. I've just never liked stalking or sneaking through the woods with a big noise maker on my back. I've sacrificed the luxuries of what I could possibly bring with me for what I feel is an added edge of stealth. True, I may regret it someday.
What’s the trick to keeping them following along, tether them? My luck as a first time Shepherd, I would have these suckers scattered all over a mountain side to the point I’d be so frustrated, I just start shooting them hoping some would get the message that Noah ain’t playing around with loading the Ark. 😎
Nobody using the Barney's pack? No not the purple Barney, the Barneys Sport Chalet in Anchorge backpack. I haven't used it for elk but have for sheep and caribou in Alaska. Should have had it for the moose instead of the Alice!!
I might have found my huckleberry in a day hunting pack/hauler. Past couple seasons I’ve burned a few packs that either didn’t stabilize a load well enough or lacked bag capacity for the must have items I carry hunting off grid.
It’s a lot to ask of a hybrid pack to handle a heavy load out of some difficult terrain, where a stand alone, well built freighter is preferable.
It came down between Kifaru or Mystery Ranch. I went with a MR called “The Mule”. This pack has the upgraded frame instead of the “Nice” frame. Main difference is a little smaller footprint and better ability to snug up a heavy load to the frame and my back then the older frame.
I did order up a couple of “belt pockets” that slide on each side of the waist straps for access to noc and scope wipes, etc.
Only thing it lacks that I wish it had is a “hoist handle” to grab to help lift it up and on to my shoulders.
I got lucky and found this pack on eBay used but as new for a good price...Next fur season will tell me it’s truth if it works for me.
This has been a helpful thread. Gave me a lot of information on some really good packs and haulers to read about...Thanks! 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
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