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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Hmmm?


My P226 40 with 200gr XTP's at 1041 fps is very comfortable, I do not feel the snap some talk about with it so loaded, feels like a 45 ACP to me.

Speaking of cartridge comparisons, and I took no pleasure in any of this, had to shoot a stray walker? hound here at the farm for livestock depredation, a 230gr gold dot at 966 fps entered the flank tight against the hip and exited neck vertebrae then rear side of the skull, I'm thankful it was without a twitch of suffering, anyway, I studied the wound channel, and path, with my hand spread as far as it will go, from tip of thumb to little finger is 10 inches, that bullet went near 27 inches and exited.

I don't know chit about 9mm vs 40 cal vs 45 acp vs 10mm vs 38 super etc, etc, I do know a 45 cal 230gr gold dot on hide, bone and muscle will get the chit wrecked out of it, also don't have any barrier experience with gold dots, but it completely wrecked that dog.

A Walker is a good dawg. Too bad you couldn't have caught him up for your own before he started running cows. When they start running cows they got to go to the Happy Hunting Grounds. RIP, but good shooting.


Yes EE, that whole thing sucked, the dog was a skin and bones stray without collar and was probably sick and going to die soon anyway, he wasn't running cows, but had caught one of Wifes fat laying hens, I cant blame him for that, he was starving, no personal malice towards the dog, but, you just cant do that here, his previous owner is the one that needed shooting more!


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9 vs 45...…..go with either. They are both well proven.

It comes back to the same tired old argument, weight/diameter, vs magazine capacity/velocity.

Just carry if you can/will. Even if it's a mousegun.

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Well, as between my 26 and 30, the 26 is most comfortable to carry and gives me one extra round, but then per round I would think the 45 would be more effective.

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I wonder just how important the time between shots really is? Is it that much better on the street to be able to group 5-6 rounds in one second into a quarter with a 9mm than to put three rounds of 40 or 45 caliber into the same quarter in the same time? Just where does practical morph into lily gilding in this topic?

I personally feel the first shot is the most important and no matter which round the gun is chambered in I'm equally slow for that first shot. Anything beyond that will have to settle for whatever "splits" conditions and surroundings allow. Competition is great for some things but using it as a measurement of need is not what competition was designed for. If it were then I would miss a lot fewer game birds than I do.

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Sometimes we just tend to 'think' too much.

Both are over 100 years old, well proven in many wars, and both benefitting from the advancements of modern ammo. Win/win.

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I'm a simple man.

Data shows both are equally effective, but in similar sizes (say Glock 21 vs Glock 17) the 9mm carries almost 30% more ammo (17/13).

30% more ammo with virtually the same effectiveness per round, and easier to shoot is a winner in my book.

Your mileage may vary....


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Originally Posted by SargeMO
I might get interested in the 9mm yet.

[Linked Image]



The snake oil marketing bs in some of that ad makes everything else they claim suspect as well IMO. But I'm sure some folks will swallow it up.
I think there's some merit to what they're attempting though so it'll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.

FWIW I've been making/shooting my own 180gr 9mm bullet for a couple years for subsonic/suppressed loads. Heavy bullets like this are picky about what brass they use, which is probably why Seismic is using those hybrid cases.

Last edited by Yondering; 02/07/19.
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine


Just carry if you can/will. Even if it's a mousegun.


Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Sometimes we just tend to 'think' too much.


Agree. If you had said: "Think too much, we do," I would have mistaken you for Yoda!


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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by SargeMO
I might get interested in the 9mm yet.

[Linked Image]



The snake oil marketing bs in some of that ad makes everything else they claim suspect as well IMO. But I'm sure some folks will swallow it up.
I think there's some merit to what they're attempting though so it'll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.

FWIW I've been making/shooting my own 180gr 9mm bullet for a couple years for subsonic/suppressed loads. Heavy bullets like this are picky about what brass they use, which is probably why Seismic is using those hybrid cases.


That's my take; it's an interesting heavy bullet load for the cartridge. If it works as advertised, it opens new doors for the 9mm.


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With a load like that, you might need to adjust your sights.

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Originally Posted by SargeMO
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by SargeMO
I might get interested in the 9mm yet.

[Linked Image]



The snake oil marketing bs in some of that ad makes everything else they claim suspect as well IMO. But I'm sure some folks will swallow it up.
I think there's some merit to what they're attempting though so it'll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.

FWIW I've been making/shooting my own 180gr 9mm bullet for a couple years for subsonic/suppressed loads. Heavy bullets like this are picky about what brass they use, which is probably why Seismic is using those hybrid cases.


That's my take; it's an interesting heavy bullet load for the cartridge. If it works as advertised, it opens new doors for the 9mm.



In what way?


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Hmmm?


My P226 40 with 200gr XTP's at 1041 fps is very comfortable, I do not feel the snap some talk about with it so loaded, feels like a 45 ACP to me.

Speaking of cartridge comparisons, and I took no pleasure in any of this, had to shoot a stray walker? hound here at the farm for livestock depredation, a 230gr gold dot at 966 fps entered the flank tight against the hip and exited neck vertebrae then rear side of the skull, I'm thankful it was without a twitch of suffering, anyway, I studied the wound channel, and path, with my hand spread as far as it will go, from tip of thumb to little finger is 10 inches, that bullet went near 27 inches and exited.

I don't know chit about 9mm vs 40 cal vs 45 acp vs 10mm vs 38 super etc, etc, I do know a 45 cal 230gr gold dot on hide, bone and muscle will get the chit wrecked out of it, also don't have any barrier experience with gold dots, but it completely wrecked that dog.

A Walker is a good dawg. Too bad you couldn't have caught him up for your own before he started running cows. When they start running cows they got to go to the Happy Hunting Grounds. RIP, but good shooting.


Yes EE, that whole thing sucked, the dog was a skin and bones stray without collar and was probably sick and going to die soon anyway, he wasn't running cows, but had caught one of Wifes fat laying hens, I cant blame him for that, he was starving, no personal malice towards the dog, but, you just cant do that here, his previous owner is the one that needed shooting more!
You probably did him a favor amigo. The thing about them coon dawgs is they will run and run and run and the owners can try hard to find them and just can't. On other breeds, I'd say the same as you, but maybe this one just outran his people...or maybe it's just as you say. Either way, can't have him eating the livestock, whether hooved or feathered. I would've done the same as you, and one of my best dogs was a Walker. RIP Scout.

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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine


Just carry if you can/will. Even if it's a mousegun.


Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Sometimes we just tend to 'think' too much.


Agree. If you had said: "Think too much, we do," I would have mistaken you for Yoda!

Shane is kinda like Yoda but without the big pointed ears and taller and less green. Has good stuff to say though!

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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
I can't imagine that anyone is going to outdo a 9 loaded with the right ammo when we're talking about cc/sd/duty for the whole package of speed, accuracy, stopping ability, etc. It's hard to argue with ALL the numbers. I guess Stick is right about bullets mattering more than headstamps.

I shoot all versions of hot-loaded 9 better than hot-loaded 40. But I'll carry a 40 10/10 times into the sticks, and will feel far more confident with 200gr bullets at 1050 fps than I do with 147's at the same speed.
I don't understand why anybody would carry 147's in the 9, other than subsonic for supressed guns.



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Yep, my 17 stays charged with 147gr HST's.


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I carried 147s for the longest time, 20+ years.

I just in the last year bought a few boxes of the Hornady 135gr +P Critical Duty, and have the Nines loaded up with that. Honestly though, I think I'll be migrating back to the 147gr. I just like it, I favor deeper penetration first.

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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I carried 147s for the longest time, 20+ years.

I just in the last year bought a few boxes of the Hornady 135gr +P Critical Duty, and have the Nines loaded up with that. Honestly though, I think I'll be migrating back to the 147gr. I just like it, I favor deeper penetration first.


I believe the FBI just chose the Hornady Critical Duty 135 +P for its ability to penetrate.



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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Hmmm?


My P226 40 with 200gr XTP's at 1041 fps is very comfortable, I do not feel the snap some talk about with it so loaded, feels like a 45 ACP to me.

Speaking of cartridge comparisons, and I took no pleasure in any of this, had to shoot a stray walker? hound here at the farm for livestock depredation, a 230gr gold dot at 966 fps entered the flank tight against the hip and exited neck vertebrae then rear side of the skull, I'm thankful it was without a twitch of suffering, anyway, I studied the wound channel, and path, with my hand spread as far as it will go, from tip of thumb to little finger is 10 inches, that bullet went near 27 inches and exited.

I don't know chit about 9mm vs 40 cal vs 45 acp vs 10mm vs 38 super etc, etc, I do know a 45 cal 230gr gold dot on hide, bone and muscle will get the chit wrecked out of it, also don't have any barrier experience with gold dots, but it completely wrecked that dog.

A Walker is a good dawg. Too bad you couldn't have caught him up for your own before he started running cows. When they start running cows they got to go to the Happy Hunting Grounds. RIP, but good shooting.


Yes EE, that whole thing sucked, the dog was a skin and bones stray without collar and was probably sick and going to die soon anyway, he wasn't running cows, but had caught one of Wifes fat laying hens, I cant blame him for that, he was starving, no personal malice towards the dog, but, you just cant do that here, his previous owner is the one that needed shooting more!
You probably did him a favor amigo. The thing about them coon dawgs is they will run and run and run and the owners can try hard to find them and just can't. On other breeds, I'd say the same as you, but maybe this one just outran his people...or maybe it's just as you say. Either way, can't have him eating the livestock, whether hooved or feathered. I would've done the same as you, and one of my best dogs was a Walker. RIP Scout.


smile


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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I carried 147s for the longest time, 20+ years.

I just in the last year bought a few boxes of the Hornady 135gr +P Critical Duty, and have the Nines loaded up with that. Honestly though, I think I'll be migrating back to the 147gr. I just like it, I favor deeper penetration first.


Everybody wants deeper penetration. You, me, steelhead, TWR, Kim Kardashian.........


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grin

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