Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Mid layer?

I am never sure whether to bother packing a bulky mid-layer on backpack hunts. My normal set-up is merino base (top and bottom), shell (top and bottom), warm down puffy and Primaloft pants for sits in the cold. I find that when hiking during the day (30s through 50s on most trips) I get overheated with the shell on. Without a mid-layer I sometimes get chilly in just my base layer. I can get by on shorter sits in most temps with a base, (fleece or merino 1/4 zip), and shell. I also prefer to sleep in the mid-layer (night time lows normally in the 20s).
The problem is that these mid-layers are bulky and take up more space in my pack than I would like. To make matters worse, they are not that warm for their bulk.

I am thinking about trying a really light mid or scrapping it altogether. Do you guys use one?

I have also been considering replacing the fleece mid with a down vest. I have never tried a vest but it would probably pack smaller with more warmth. Anyone have experience using a down vest? Thoughts?

Cold is relative to what you're used to, but I cannot imagine 30 as the lowest temp being considered truly "cold." With that in mind, I cannot imagine the need for the "puffy" segment at all in your scenario.

I would jettison the "puffy" and go with a "mid" layer instead.

Hiking: base+mid
Sitting: base+mid+shell
Weather: base+shell with mid if needed for warmth

I won't be without a fleece mid top or vest, as I simply think nothing is cozier or more useful in more situations while hunting and in base camp. That kind of psychological comfort to me is more valuable than a few ounces of weight, as it will keep me hunting and that is what the actual goal is in the first place.

I do not find a down vest as "comforting" or "energizing" as fleece, ever. I do use a down vest often in colder temps as an addition to my mid if needing the extra insulation for warmth.

You could potentially run a lighter-weight mid layer and also use a down/primaloft vest for some extra warmth while sitting.

Makes good sense except I would ALWAYS pack that puffy for windy conditions, camp or especially in an emergency.

I guess I run cold. I hunt colder conditions too but those are the temps I usually encounter in the Adirondacks at the end of October. It will drop to low 20s at night and hit 30s to 40s by afternoon (sometimes 50+). Those first few hours after sunrise can feel pretty cold, especially so early in the season without having adjusted to it. The last hour or two can get chilly too. I sit still at those times to try to catch a buck on the move.

I have a low resting pulse and I think that contributes to me getting cold when I am inactive. Also, I don’t use a base camp when backpack hunting. I sleep in a bivi sack where I want to be at sunrise. If I didn’t have a puffy, I would be really cold on the morning sits.

In past years I brought a synthetic puffy. I got cold even in that. I ended up buying a First Lite Chamberlain Down jacket. It is much warmer and I’m going to bring that in the future. Obviously, I couldn’t wear it while hiking.

Instead of a softshell, I am probably going to wear the Kuiu Yukon set this year unless the weather is supposed to be completely dry. I think I might wear a base and a light fleece mid layer but put the Yukon jacket in my pack while moving. The base alone (light merino) may be too light and the Yukon be too heavy and clammy.

My problem with that would be I'd want to be able to use my mid layer while on the move and I wouldn't want to get a down vest sweaty. Even moving slow I sweat between my back and the pack.

I think you answered your own question though. If you're too cold moving with just the base layer then you need something else. Some of the north face and mountain hardwear 100 wt fleece pullovers are in the 7 - 8oz range and fold up pretty small.

Depends on season. I usually always have a fleece 1/4 zip shirt in my bag though (I use two different ones I got for $15 and $10 respectively from stp). When its colder I'll take a puffy vest to run under my arcteryx atom lt (if it's super cold/windy).

For the uses you're describing I use two different tops. For moving I like an un-insulated soft shell over the base layer. Not as much loft or insulation as a fleece but more wind-resistant and still breathable and quiet. For sleeping I like a soft thin hoodie, I have a couple, one by NW Alpine and one Kuiu IIRC. They're what I'd call a lightwieght mid layer, waffle-weave and heavier than a base layer but not as thick as a mid. Much more comfortable to sleep in IMO than most mids you'd wear. Worn under the soft shell the combo is as warm as a heavier mid-layer, and worn without the soft shell it's about as light a mid-layer as you can get.

I wear a synthetic blue layer, really like First Lite Aerowool, then either a Sitka Core Heavyweight or Patagonia R1 over that. That usually works for cooler temps and hiking in. Once I arrive I usually put on a lighter weigh puffy and maybe a shell over that if its cool/cold. I really like the Patagonia R1 and Sitka Core Heavyweight for what you describe. BTW I have the hooded versions of both. Gotta have a hood......

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I decided to get a flece quarter zip and scrap the primaloft pants. I find that I almost never use the primaloft pants on backpack hunts anyway. I’ll save them for winter trips. Unfortunately, I want to get the fleece from Kuiu and they are out of stock. I like Kuiu but stock issues can be a pain.

Bwinter, why the hood? I normally avoid a hood on layers because they add weight and bulk and I never felt they provided a benefit. My shell and puffy will have hoods ao why the hood on a mid-layer? It’s a sincere question that you might sway me on. I wear a wool baseball-style cap in most weather but ai pack a warmer hat too. The warmer hat is one of the following: Sitka Ballistic Beanie, heavy wool beanie, or a hat that I have that is made from alpacas wool (Alpacas of Montana is the brand, I think).

Patagonia R1 hoody for me. I like the hood for sleeping and find that it slows down the wind going down your neck when glassing, etc.

No camo? I have settled on buying and using the KUIU Peloton 200 if it is available soon. If not I'll buy a midweight Sitka Core.

^^^^^ This.

I find I wear my base layer and R1 or Sitka ALOT. When its 35-40 and I'm still hunting, I tend to just wear the base layer and mid layer. Its stealth, breathable and warm enough. I've killed several elk in that config. The hood is not heavy enough to make you sweat or get in the way but cuts the wind and keeps the wind off my neck and ears. Plus it covers alot of my face when fully zipped which is a bonus when it's cold. I honestly wear all the hoods at once when it's cold and I'm stationary. I wore either the R1 or Sitka every day this past hunting season if that tells you anything. Its probably my favorite piece of clothing. After season, I wear the R1 hiking in the winter/spring as well.

No camo for me usually.

I’ve got a Sitka heavyweight as well but prefer the Patagonia.

For now I’ve settled on a capilene base, Peleton 240, then an Arc’teryx Atom. That gets me through most conditions. When glassing or in camp in the cold I will add the Kifaru LPP. The 240 is reasonably wind resistant and with the hood I find it very comfortable. If it’s going to be a rather cold hunt or I’m going to be out for many days I’ll use the Aerowool base layer. If its going to be on the warmer side I may substitute the Sitka Kelvin Active for the Arc’teryx. I have a thin rain shell which can double as extra wind protection.

If you have 100 and 200 level fleeces you are logistically prepared.

When you want a thicker 300 level fleece, recommend Lowe Alpine "Canyonland" fleece jacket. Liked it so much, just bought another for future use.

How does the Patagonia R1 compare to the Peleton 240

I would say the R1 is very similar to the Sitka Kelvin Active. But compared to the 240, the R1 would be biased towards warmer conditions and/or higher activity levels. The 240 is better at blocking wind. The fit on both is lean with long sleeves. The R1 has extra long sleeves and no thumb holes. Too long for me. The 240 is a little too long, but when using the thumb holes it fits well.

I just got a 240, like it so far. I'd say it's kind of a cross between a base layer hoody and a soft shell hoody. Not quite as soft and comfortable to sleep in as a base layer, and not as stout and wind resistant as a soft shell. Plus, it's not a single layer, it has a thin liner.

I like the full zip on the 240, ventilating on a climb is important to me.