Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles How many shots between cleaning for larger bores?

I know this depends on a lot of things. Powder , individual barrel , etc..
I also know each rifle will tell you when it needs to be cleaned .

So with calibers such as the 300 wsm , 300 wm , etc. how many any rds till you notice accuracy falling off ?

Yep. I've never shot the chamberings you mentioned to the point I saw the accuracy fall off without cleaning at some point. Mainly because it's no fun to shoot that many with a .300 magnum. But I just wanted to point out the opposite is true with some rifles, if you clean down to bare metal. I've had a few that needed several rounds down the bore before they settled down and shot like they were capable of.

There was a time when I shot at a private range weekly, sometimes twice a week. I shoot at the "bench rest" range".

I would watch guys shoot 3 or 4 shots, then clean, and repeat the process, and then bitch that they could not get their rifle to group.

IMHO folks over-clean their rifle barrels.

BTW, how long has it been since you put 75 to 100 rounds down the tube on your 300 Win Mag at the range, doing load development, or to see how many rounds it takes before accuracy begins to fall off.

If you are at a benchand are not using something like a lead sled with weight, even if your rifle has a brake, I'd be more inclined to believe one will develop a flinch that will be much more detrimental to accuracy than barrel fouling.

In the field at any reasonable distance with the heart pumping and chest heaving, and the critter moving, how do you tell if your "group" has opened up by 1/2 MOA.

Quien Sabe?


GWB

If I could get light to shine through the bore of my dedicated hunting rifles I would show you how fouled they are...grins

All kidding aside, I’d bet my .300 has 100 rounds or close too it through the barrel without a cleaning- may not be a 1/2” gun, but I’d bet it holds 3/4 all day...this particular rifle is a factory offering .300 win mag that has 1800rds fires. Only rifle I have ever kept track of. I did over clean when it was new, and saw inconsistencies far more then when it’s fouled.

Every circumstance is different...I am lazy, but tell myself I am too busy for the annoying stuff....Like cleaning for instance.

There was a time when I shot at a private range weekly, sometimes twice a week. I shoot at the "bench rest" range".

I would watch guys shoot 3 or 4 shots, then clean, and repeat the process, and then bitch that they could not get their rifle to group.

IMHO folks over-clean their rifle barrels.

BTW, how long has it been since you put 75 to 100 rounds down the tube on your 300 Win Mag at the range, doing load development, or to see how many rounds it takes before accuracy begins to fall off.

If you are at a benchand are not using something like a lead sled with weight, even if your rifle has a brake, I'd be more inclined to believe one will develop a flinch that will be much more detrimental to accuracy than barrel fouling.

In the field at any reasonable distance with the heart pumping and chest heaving, and the critter moving, how do you tell if your "group" has opened up by 1/2 MOA.

Quien Sabe?


GWB

Well I actually shot at my range earlier this week.
No I did not shoot 75- 100 rds , but I did put 25 down the tube.
This is where this rifle seems to need cleaning .
Flinch ? Got the rifle back out the next day. Shot a 3 shot group and accuracy was not what it was supposed to be. Cleaned rifle good.
Shot 2 foulers , and accuracy was back to normal. This seems to be the pattern this rifle shows.

This is why I asked the question !

Shoot. Thought ths was a thread about Liger Hunting

I don't really count rounds down the barrel. I clean when I feel it (I?) needs it - can't recall ever cleaning because the accuracy deteriorated. But then I only shoot effusively when working up a load for a "new" gun. Almost never get to 100 rounds doing that.

In a good year for an "established" hunting rifle - 3 (doesn't always work out this way) - One to check scope setting after getting it out of storage, one to drop the game, one insurance shot if needed from close up. Sometimes only two if no insurance is called for.. Clean and put away until next use - always if it got wet, from precipitation or condensation. If it got really wet, it is a complete (or nearly so - I don't unscrew the barrel!) dissassembly. The next session usually calls for a 3 shot group after storage. sometimes (seldom) more if needed.

If not wet, I might go 6 rounds, or even 10-25...multiple years, tho I do run a dry patch down the bore prior to that first shot after storage. Bugs....dust.... cobwebs... just for luck....

I did have one '98 with a pitted bore that shot 1.25 inch groups after cleaning and about 15 rounds.... 6 inch groups right after cleaning. I didn't clean that one much. - probably every 10 years or so. I eventually rebarreled it.

All depends on the barrel. My bartlein barrel, every 150 rds. My savage barrel, every 30 rds. It begins to copper foul. I would say that most factory rifles probably need cleaned about every 50 or 60 rnds. It simply depends on how smooth the barrel is.

I go to the range once or twice a week (during Winter time only) I will take two to five rifles and fire each 15 to 20 rounds testing different handloads so I never see a fall off in accuracy and I will thoroughly clean my rifles after each range session....I love a super clean rifle......👍.....Hb

I would clean my 300 saum once or twice a year. Roughly every 300 rounds. It shot like crap until I got the barrel dirty again. My 243 is the same deal. Shoots like shyt until I foul the barrel.

This makes no sense to me but if it works for you, keep on keepin' on.

This might stir some people up but I clean all my firearms every time they are used. Don't know if is my upbringing or what. I figure when I need it most I don't want it to be gunked up. I also don't rely on fouling shots either. My thoughts on rifle accuracy is what will it do (5 shots) with a cold clean barrel. I was taught to care for my tools. More power to you if something else works for you.

Have read that ‘excessive’ (read too frequent) cleaning of a barrel often causes more harm than good.

That said, I do give a gun a good wipe-down every time it is handled.

Whether its an actual hunt or just to the range, I too wipe my rifles down, which typically include wiping down the bolt. I will either use Ballistol, or Kroil. I've never had a problem with a "gunked" up barrel unless I've dropped muzzle first in the dirt.

YMMV.


GWB

Yeah I cant put a rifle with a dirty bore back in My safe, To avoid excessive wear I dont run a bunch of patches through my rifle bores and I never use any kind of brush (even nylon) after a good soaking with Wipe-out bore cleaner it takes only a few patches to have my barrels thoroughly clean with no copper fouling left (I shoot a lot of Barnes TTSX/TSX bullets)...... I used to shoot .22lr matches at a few of My local clubs and i remember many members had your same philosophy, they swore they never cleaned the bore of their rimfire rifles but to their horror I (and a few others) would clean our barrel bores at the end of the match and without fail at least one member would approach me and tell me how bad i was screwing up even though I might even have just won the match 😁 (I did win a few) ....I take meticulous care of everything I own from my guns to My truck and motorcycle all the way down to my lawn mowers and the hand tools in my shed...It works for me .....good shooting....Hb

During load work up I might clean every 20-40 rounds especially if switching components especially powders. Then once that is done I might go two years between thorough cleanings. Probably will get flack for this but I will run a patch with Kroil in a fouled barrel for storage then a dry one before next use. I have not had any corrosion doing this.

Hey, if it works for you more power to ya! 👍......Good shooting....Hb

As stated above it depends upon the barrel. Each practice session starts with at least one group and I don’t clean a barrel until groups open up. Some rifles that was 15 rounds others it was 500.

I pull a bore snake through a barrel after shooting if its over 25-30 rounds, maybe 2-3 pulls. Maybe once a year in the winter i'll do a full clean.

can anyone define the demarcation line between excessive and non-excessive cleaning?

Yes. If you're OCD you clean excessively. If not, you don't.

I have a 700 ADL in 25-06 with more than 3000 rounds down the barrel. When I first got it, I cleaned it after every range session. I always griped that it wasn't accurate enough shooting 1.5-2" groups with factory stuff. When I started reloading for it, the guy that was teaching me told me not to clean so much. Soon, the barrel dropped down to an honest .5" shooter. After about 2500 rounds it started opening up, whether I cleaned it or not. So, cleaned it down to the metal and started finding a new load for it. Settled on 7977 and the 110 Accubond. Groups aren't as tight as they use to be since I'm chasing the lands pretty well. But I still shoot it quite a bit. I learned that it wanted cleaning after every 100-125 rounds.
Fast-forward and it was time to clean the ol' girl. I decided to run a test of all of the best known bore cleaners. After following the instructions on each, I'd run the bore scope down the barrel. What I learned is that clean is in the eye of the beer-holder.
Some of them took the carbon out real quick but left the copper.
Some removed some of the copper.
Some removed some more of the copper
Finally, I tried the 29% Ammonia and a bronze brush. ALL of the copper came out and the barrel was spotless.

What I learned:
There's clean enough and there's too clean.

Under my 'normal' cleaning regimen, I could clean and be back in battery with my handloads in 5-6 shots.

With the Ammonia and getting to 'too clean' it took 28 shots before the rifle started to group like it should.

Not a 'big bore' or 'larger' (liger) bore and only an sample of one but still interesting findings.

I like to target-shoot and work up loads at the range, but do not dabble in competitions.
My end goal is to have accurate hunting loads that I like and use during deer season.

I clean at the end of a range or field session, mostly because I want the equipment to stay rust-and-pitting-free forever.

My hunting rifles always stay very, very close to my expected point of impact on a 1st shot from a clean bore, preceded by a pull or two on a bore snake.

I don't think I'll start keeping dirty bores in the safe, just to reduce a quarter inch or half inch off the size of my current results.

I think everybody does "what works for them".

Vive La Difference!

come on you can do better than that ...how many rounds max. between cleaning = OCD...?
there might be some folks here with a problem that hasn't been diagnosed yet.

and the dude from GAP telling guys to go 'have a few beers' while the bore is soaking
wouldnt help folks with OCD...too many beers while handling firearms doesnt sound good....

IIRC, 800 - 900 rounds with my previous 300’s. I clean less than that now unless crap gets in the barrel.

Gunsmiths make a huge income from cleaning rifles that are fouled to where they have lost their accuracy, and by this point, it takes special cleaning supplies to clean the barrel.

Carbon gets super cooked and at some point will be Near impossible to get out. Each barrel can be different. Various factory barrels can be very different from each other, and custom barrels are also very different in their micro finish.


Accuracy is a relative thing. Some guys like 1/4-3/8", others 1.0", most would fall into 1.5" groups, and others minute of pie plate.

Not cleaning your guns is like not changing oil in your car or truck. You can get away without changing your oil every 20,000 miles, but the motor will not last long with regular oil that is a non synthetic.

Through the years, I have helped a lot of guys with barrels that were fouled very badly, some could be saved, some were just way too much pitting to save. Their responses were, "I never knew" or "no body told me".

Guys that do not like to clean, will not clean no matter what the consequences, just trade the gun off when it quits shooting.

There are a lot of threads on cleaning guns over on www.accurateshooter.com.

A few observations on these points. First, I really doubt gunsmiths make piles of money cleaning rifles, it's labor- and time-intensive and it's not something most of them want to be doing. Anyone can clean a fouled bore, it's not what they trained to do, so it's not a big-ticket item for gunsmiths.

Second, letting fouling accumulate in your bore is nothing like not changing the oil in your engine. Not changing your oil will screw up your engine, not cleaning your bore just means it's dirty or you lose accuracy. Not cleaning your bore is more like not washing your truck.

Third, pitting comes from corrosion, right? Not a dirty bore by itself.

I don’t refer to rifle cleaning by rounds as much as years...

interesting parallel, so does your truck lose accuracy when you don't wash it..?

Does every rifle lose accuracy if you don't clean it over the course of a year or two?

your previous broad statement seems to suggest they do.-

>>.. "not cleaning your bore just means it's dirty and you lose accuracy".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger
Are we cleaning our liger rifles?

Do you fret over all my posts to this degree? I never knew. I'll try not to upset you next time.

Fretting..??..lol..you asked me a question and I responded.

You also called out Keith and disected his comments and I called out you on yours, that's all.

Smokepole, we are just having a discussion.

"A few observations on these points. First, I really doubt gunsmiths make piles of money cleaning rifles, it's labor- and time-intensive and it's not something most of them want to be doing. Anyone can clean a fouled bore, it's not what they trained to do, so it's not a big-ticket item for gunsmiths.

Second, letting fouling accumulate in your bore is nothing like not changing the oil in your engine. Not changing your oil will screw up your engine, not cleaning your bore just means it's dirty and you lose accuracy. Not cleaning your bore is more like not washing your truck.

Third, pitting comes from corrosion, right? Not a dirty bore by itself."

#1- depends on the gunsmith and his following, accuracy gunsmiths do not do much cleaning, they replace barrels instead of spending many hours on cleaing rods. Anyone can clean a fouled bore if they have the know how and the money to spend on the equipment to do so, most do not have the knowledge to clean a gun properly, so they do not. The "won't clean a gun crowd" just trade off guns or they sit in the back of the gun safe with another taking it's place.

#2- fouling gets to a point to where you can not get it out without lapping a bore and opening up the dia, and I have the compounds to do so, and Hawkeye bore scope to examine the results.

#3-pitting comes from neglect and not putting tape on the end of your muzzle or a finger rubber, especially the first 1/2" back from the muzzle.

For the vast majority of shooters, a rifle is like a drill or a hammer. Just oil the outside to keep down the surface rust, and Rock On!

keith, thanks for the reply. We will have to agree to disagree. On your #1 above, the equipment needed to clean a bore is cheap and rudimentary, and no special skills are required. I'd be willing to bet that most shooters who can't clean a bore when needed don't shoot enoiugh to foul their bores to the point it makes a difference anyway. Cleaning a rifle bore is not something anyone I know would pay a gunsmith to do.

As for your #2, again, shooters who don't know how to clean a bore are not out there sending hundreds of rounds down-range. For the guys who buy 1=2 boxes of ammo a year and shoot five to "sight in" before deer season, none of this matters.

I didn't "call out" keith. He said a few things I disagreed with. I listed them, told him why I disagreed, and he responded. His response above says "we are just having a discussion." If keith and I are having a discussion, what business is it of yours? Are you the moderator now?

And I didn't "dissect his comments." I quoted his statements I disagreed with and told him why I disagreed. Unlike you, you seem to be quibbling over the fact that I used "and" when it should have been "or." So I went back and edited the post, just for you.

Get over yourself, you twit.


Oooops, another grammatical error, I think I spelled that wrong.

Someone who likens not washing your truck to not cleaning a barrel is in no position to call anyone a twit.
I trust most people come to the campfire to hopefully be educated somewhat , not dumbed down by folks like you.



Carbon deposits act like a desiccant or hygroscopic , drawing moisture from the atmosphere
and inducing corrosion.
Copper fouling can also induce corrosion, in the presence of moisture.

...thus dirty or contaminated barrels can contribute to corrosion and pitting.

if you come back for more, Ill take it that you suffer from the 'OCD' condition you mentioned..

Starman, you just unwittingly proved that what I said is true. It appears that doing things unwittingly comes naturally to you. Maybe you should go back and read those twelve words again, their meaning seems to have escaped you the first few times:

"Third, pitting comes from corrosion, right? Not a dirty bore by itself" The point being, you need to add moisture to get corrosion. Or, are you here to tell everyone who puts their rifles away without cleaning that they're ruining their bores?

And sorry for calling you a twit. As I said, it was a grammatical error, I should have used "a" instead of "i."

KEY is a dry bore.

Bartlein here.



Hint.

LAUGHING!...............

guns and engines both have bores that accumulate carbon deposits, hence why piston engines are cleaned with solvent content flushes
and diesels use higher detergent content lubricants.

so certainly, those who don't attempt to keep their barrels clean are like those that don't change their oil regularly enough.
in that negligence is detrimental to both.

such an analogy makes far more sense than one of not shampooing the duco on a truck... :grin;

Where’s the entry or exit wound? 🤔

Stinky just soaks them in a creek for a week or so. They be fine.

Oooooopsie!..............

What the hell does that have to do with "How many shots between cleaning for larger bores?"

elkchunt,

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Don't "forget" that you "can't read this",as you fire up your GoogleFu and plagiarize,because it is ALL that you can "do". Hint.

Besides being a CLUELESS Kchunt,you are also a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,as you yet again "forgot" about your exhaulted Imainary Pretend Ignore. What were the "odds"? Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your heart for TRYING.

Hint.

Laughing!...............

I can see your dumbazz post. Anyone with half a brain can see I'm quoting your post and commenting about it.

elkchunt,

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Don't "forget" that you "can't read this",as you fire up your GoogleFu and plagiarize,because it is ALL that you can "do". Hint.

Besides being a CLUELESS Kchunt,you are also a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,as you yet again "forgot" about your exhaulted Imainary Pretend Ignore. What were the "odds"? Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your heart for TRYING.

Hint.

Laughing!...............

elkchunt,

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Don't "forget" that you "can't read this",as you fire up your GoogleFu and plagiarize,because it is ALL that you can "do". Hint.

Besides being a CLUELESS Kchunt,you are also a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,as you yet again "forgot" about your exhaulted Imainary Pretend Ignore. What were the "odds"? Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your heart for TRYING.

Hint.

Laughing!...............

a few shots between cleanings




ya!

GWB

Ooooopsie!.............

ya!


GWB

Ooooopsie!...........

Careful gw, you're gonna ruin your bore if you don't clean regularly, LOL.

Ooooooopsie!..............

What's the basis for your claim that "people who don't keep their barrels clean are negligent?"

In other words, where'd you read that? Chuck Hawks?? The Real Gunsmith??

Oooooopsie!...............

Nothing to do with the topic.

I clean them when needed i.e. when the rifle has been sitting in the gunsafe and I want to use it. Or,if the groups start opening up.

Ooooopsie!...............

The only rifle in my safe that gets a cleaning after every range session is my son's Mosin, as he's shooting some old Russian ammo that's corrosive. I used to be of the mind set to clean after every session, now it's mostly after hunting season they are cleaned and put away.

You're negligent and you're going to ruin all your rifles. May as well sell 'em all now, before anyone realizes the bores are ruined. PM sent.

Oooopsie!...............