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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,831 |
There are costs to living in a free society. Deaths from traffic accidents and from idiots with deadly weapons are just a couple of those costs.
Our forefathers made a poignant comment about trading freedoms for security, and not deserving either.
Furthermore, suicides should never be included in the equation. Suicide is a personal choice, and it is ridiculous to hold the rest of society liable for an idiot's bad choices.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
Suicide is a personal choice, and it is ridiculous to hold the rest of society liable for an idiot's bad choices. Your attitude has been noticed 
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,452
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,452 |
There are costs to living in a free society. Deaths from traffic accidents and from idiots with deadly weapons are just a couple of those costs.
Our forefathers made a poignant comment about trading freedoms for security, and not deserving either.
Furthermore, suicides should never be included in the equation. Suicide is a personal choice, and it is ridiculous to hold the rest of society liable for an idiot's bad choices. Great points.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,319
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,319 |
There are costs to living in a free society. Deaths from traffic accidents and from idiots with deadly weapons are just a couple of those costs.
Our forefathers made a poignant comment about trading freedoms for security, and not deserving either.
Furthermore, suicides should never be included in the equation. Suicide is a personal choice, and it is ridiculous to hold the rest of society liable for an idiot's bad choices. Almost every single suicide I ever handled blindsided everyone who knew the victim. People who are serious about it just do it, the people crying for help usually aren't serious about doing it. These laws won't change the suicide numbers, just the method used.
NRA Life Member
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,962
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
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My friend had dozens of guns seized while the ATF did an investigation. He was ultimately cleared of everything and received his guns back. The only problem was is that the ATF stored them all soaking in 55 gallon drums of salt water. They said there was a leaky roof in their storage facility and they weren't responsible. He asked if it rained salt water there because you could see the build up and taste the salt on them. They said leave it alone or they would charge him for other violations they had previously decided not to pursue.
Bb
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
My friend had dozens of guns seized while the ATF did an investigation Any idea what ATF was investigating?
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
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If they try to take my guns I will have a seizure.
Guaranteed. 
Trump Won!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243 |
Not even my wife has a clue as to how many guns I own, or where they are located, and for it to be any other way to be is, a pure foolishness! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ALL THAT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Trump Won!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243 |
And I suppose with a good attorney we'll be able to know WHO our accusers are ; ]
dummy cuck liberals best tread with extreme care on this one.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,831
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,831 |
Suicide is a personal choice, and it is ridiculous to hold the rest of society liable for an idiot's bad choices. Your attitude has been noticed I am confused. Are you for or against punishing the general population for an individual's mistakes and/or crimes?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
Just pointing out; if you don't see it there way, that in itself may be precedent to take your firearms. IE your attitude has been noticed. Its a commie thing. Speaking out against tyranny could be reason enough.
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Posts: 1,086
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
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"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes."
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
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Public landowner...
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,109
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,109 |
I don't get where the authorities giving Cruz a pass, supports the position of Red Flag laws. Cruz should have been incarcerated because of his threats, negating the need for a Red Flag law. Removing your rights without due process, is certainly overstepping the governments authority. ^^^Yep!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
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1,700 orders for seizures and no reports of anyone refusing to surrender their guns or of our loyal American LEO's refusing to enforce the unconstitutional seizures.
So much for "from my cold dead hands" eh. There was at least one person that refused, and he is dead now.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
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I have a little different take on the subject.
A very close friend of mine was an addict. I set up the 3rd or 4th intervention and one of the last things I did was to call his adult son and ask "Do I need to remove the guns" . I did not think I did and neither did his son. In less that 24 hours he had committed suicide by gun, literally hours before we put him back into treatment.
I don't think it is an accident that the Las Vegas shooter stands out as almost the lone exception who gave no advance warning of what he was going to do, and the many if not most of the mass shooters gave ample and fairly good warning before hand. I doubt we are anywhere near as good at seeing the warnings before hand as we are in retrospect, and we may not catch even half of them. But...that sure as hell shouldn't prevent us from trying and as long as we respect due process we can provide a system biased to err on whichever side of caution we as a society deem appropriate. Its a sensitive topic, and I do not want to be heartless, but there are many ways to commit suicide, even you did take his guns. He could still buy another, use rope, car exhaust, prescription drugs or elevation. Red Flag laws looking to end suicide are pointless and ineffective, especially when compared to the loss of freedoms. The risk of abuse of the system is huge, while the benefit is small (not the benefit of life, but the likelihood of stopping someone who wants to commit suicide).
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,831 |
Just pointing out; if you don't see it there way, that in itself may be precedent to take your firearms. IE your attitude has been noticed. Its a commie thing. Speaking out against tyranny could be reason enough. Oh, I see. I am pretty sure everyone who frequents this site or any other like it is already on a watch list somewhere.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I have a little different take on the subject.
A very close friend of mine was an addict. I set up the 3rd or 4th intervention and one of the last things I did was to call his adult son and ask "Do I need to remove the guns" . I did not think I did and neither did his son. In less that 24 hours he had committed suicide by gun, literally hours before we put him back into treatment.
I don't think it is an accident that the Las Vegas shooter stands out as almost the lone exception who gave no advance warning of what he was going to do, and the many if not most of the mass shooters gave ample and fairly good warning before hand. I doubt we are anywhere near as good at seeing the warnings before hand as we are in retrospect, and we may not catch even half of them. But...that sure as hell shouldn't prevent us from trying and as long as we respect due process we can provide a system biased to err on whichever side of caution we as a society deem appropriate. I'm sorry but who made the mistake? Maybe y'all SHOULD have removed his guns. In the end, he wanted to commit suicide and did. Again, I'm sorry, but is that not the ultimate act of doing what one wants with one's own body? And then is that not the ultimate act of freedom? Of free will? I am not advocating suicide and don't believe in suicide, but I also don't believe the government should tell somebody what to do in that case.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,126
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,126 |
1,700 orders for seizures and no reports of anyone refusing to surrender their guns or of our loyal American LEO's refusing to enforce the unconstitutional seizures.
So much for "from my cold dead hands" eh. There was at least one person that refused, and he is dead now. And there's gonna be more - a LOT more - if this crap's not removed.. Oakster The risk of abuse of the system is huge, Not just 'huge', but as probable as finding stars in the Milky Way...
Last edited by Redneck; 02/12/19.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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