Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters MSDS quandry

Kinda bored today, ordered some things one being Barnes CR10 solvent. Looking at the label it said Ethylene Glycol, so got to digging into the MSDS.
HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
ETHYLENE GLYCOL BUTYL ETHER = Anti-Freeze blended with water
AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE = Ammonia
SODIUM NITRATE = Jerky Cure
M-Pyrol
Proprietary Blend = stable acidic salt.

So I have been cleaning the bore with acidic salt, mixed with jerky cure and ammonia suspended in diluted anti-freeze. 😂
I am now questioning my sanity as to why I buy it.

It removes the copper in my rifles then you clean it out of the bore.

Ethylene Glycol was originally created to keep brass/copper heat exchangers from building up corrosion.

You need to get “Globaly Harmonized,” MSDS’s are a thing of the past. 😎. SDS’s are the new version and as dumb as it sounds the standardization is a good thing.

Nope, it was originally developed in 1859 and there was no commercial use till after WW1 when it was used to replace Glycerol in dynamite 🧨. But it’s primary use in the USA was antifreeze.

Pure ethylene glycol freezes at about −12 °C (10.4 °F) but, when mixed with water, the mixture freezes at a lower temperature. For example, a mixture of 60% ethylene glycol and 40% water freezes at −45 °C (−49 °F).[4] Diethylene glycol behaves similarly. The freezing point depression of some mixtures can be explained as a colligative property of solutions but, in highly-concentrated mixtures such as the example, deviations from ideal solution behavior are expected due to the influence of intermolecular forces.

Because of the depressed freezing temperatures, ethylene glycol is used as a de-icing fluid for windshields and aircraft, as an antifreeze in automobile engines, and as a component of vitrification (anticrystallization) mixtures for low-temperature preservation of biological tissues and organs. Mixture of ethylene glycol and water can also be chemically termed as glycol concentrate/compound/mixture/solution.
The use of ethylene glycol not only depresses the freezing point of aqueous mixtures, but also elevates their boiling point. This results in the operating temperature range for heat-transfer fluids being broadened on both ends of the temperature scale. The increase in boiling temperature is due to pure ethylene glycol having a much higher boiling point and lower vapor pressure than pure water, as is typical with most binary mixtures of volatile liquids.

Sounds like you might be making this stuff, Swifty....but I ain`t buying anymore..I`m gonna use good ole elbow grease.

Swifty,

thanks for the dissertation.

You do know though, that a good percentage of the readers here don't think science is real or has any usefulness, right?

Geno

I think the first words of Swifty's post was correct....

" Kinda bored today....."

you guys are right... its Saturday morning... take a load off...

most of us can wait until Monday to get dazed and confused...

What I take from this, is to go down and buy a gallon of anti freeze or even cheaper, Blue Window Wash
and clean a gun barrel or two....

and here I thought I learned from Schtick.... just leave your gun laying in the creek next to a fish for a couple of hours and it keeps that gunk/shooting residue out of your gun barrel... and action....

and I conveniently have a creek running a good couple hundred yards right between my house and the neighbor next door who only comes up here to Oregon twice a year for a week... so I essentially have it all to myself.. for gun cleaning and such....

just no fish... so I put my gun in the creek for a couple hours after going to the range, and just lay a fish stick near it.. that ought to work....then just clean it out with anti freeze and blue window wash from Walmart or Autozone.

I think you forgot the jerky salts Seafire.

Geno

I think Seafire might be getting a little cantankerous in his old age. It must boggle the mind that one of the main ingredients in a bore cleaner is also in his food.

Foods With Sodium Nitrate
Sodium nitrate isn't used in many foods, according to the American Meat Institute, and you're more likely to find sodium nitrite, one of the compounds formed spontaneously from sodium nitrate. However, natural sodium nitrate is still used in dry cured meats and meats made in specialty shops. Examples of these types of meats include prosciutto, capicola, salami, pancetta and lardo. If you're eating these meats, read the ingredients list to see if it contains the food additive. You can also ask the butcher or maker of the meat for information about the preservative content.

Broccoli has alot of Sodium Nitrate in it.

Swifty,

Last few years, especially since having a third of one kidney removed, I've been buying more and more "uncured" meat. It's hard to find at times, and usually more expensive, but I figure after all the stuff I've been exposed to over the years I'll cut down on stuff going through the filters the best I can.

Actually have a chub of salami in the fridge with no "added" nitrates or nitrites right now.

As to your original post, so many of us never think to look into commonly used items and what we're being exposed to. Maybe it's no big deal...........then again, maybe it's a bigger deal than we think.

Geno

Actually I bet he would rather mix up this type, I mean what could go wrong. Other than asphyxiate yourself or a spark cause a big boom.

Ed's Red
As a general bore cleaner, plastic wad remover, and carbon solvent the following formula, a creation of C.E Harris, and dubbed "Ed's Red" works quite well. In fact many folks claim it is better than anything they've tried. The original formula is:

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III Automatic Transmission Fluid - GM Spec D20265 or later
1 part K1 Kerosene
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits federal spec TT-T-2981F (CAS# 64741-49-9) or Stodard Solvent/Varsol (CAS#8052-41-1), a.k.a "oderless mineral spirits"
1 part Acetone (CAS#67-64-1)

Formula Addendum

It has been reported that methyethylketone/MEK (CAS#78-93-3) can be satisfactorily substituted for the acetone if desired.

It has been reported that Turpentine can be satisfactorily substituted for the Mineral Spirits if desired. The original Frankford Arsenal formula upon which Ed's Red is based used turpentine rather than mineral spirits which were substituted for lower cost. Turpentine also tends to leave a gummy residue.

It has been reported that Kroil penetrating oil can be satisfactorily substituted for the kerosene if desired.

It has been reported that the lower numbered "JP" jet fuels can be used in place of kerosene.

It has been reported that Goo-Gone (a commercial citrus based solvent) can be satisfactorily substituted for the mineral spirits if desired.

It has been reported that commercial automotive "engine flush" can be substituted for the ATF (but you lose the red color and the lubrication qualities).

It has been reported that the formula works best when mixed in a pail with gloveless hands when heated to lukewarm over a coal burner.

It softens the skin better that way too.

Geno

Just eat deer, antelope, elk, bear, moose, caribou and other such meats. Do the butchering yourself. No problem with added ingredients or hormones or whatever then.

Various grades of glycol are also commonly found in eye drops among many other uses in the foods we eat.

Switch to wipe-out

Then it's no good for rifle cleaning.

Someone said broccoli has nitrates, yep.

So does celery. More than many cured meats.

Ever wonder why your meat is no added nitrates?
Instead on no nitrates?

Because they add something (usually celery juice) to get
The nitrates needed to cure the meat.
They add celery juice, not nitrates, the nitrates come along for the ride.

Isn’t any better, half the stuff in there is used to make explosives.

https://www.pbepro.com/common/High%20Teck%20Products/MSDS/HT-7800%20All%20Sizes.pdf

Back to topic, M-Pyrol = paint stripper containing NMP available at your local hardware store. One stop shopping in some places like Home Depot, Lowe’s and menards. 😃

So if I'm reading this right he wants something that'll chemically strip copper out of a barrel but without anything reactive in it?

Isn't that kind of like wanting gas for your vehicle that isn't flammable?

Farts from a 6 week old labrador puppy vented through the barrel might do it, I dunno.

Chit most everything in the paint, fat or fertilizer isle can make explosives

Has a nice thick course black pepper coating on it. It would probably do a decent job of scrubbing fouling out. And it's about the proper dimension for running down a 20mm cannon bore.

Unfortunately, I don't have one of those to try it on, so I guess I continue eating it for my afternoon snack.

Geno

Heck we had carbon tet fire extinguishers at work, got used for cleaning parts off.

Corn based mash?

Salami made without nitrates isnt salami..

Well, that's likely true as most any salami I know of is made with salt and nitrates are one of the impurities in salt.

I'd hazard a guess that when salami making started many hundreds, perhaps a thousand + years ago (according to some sources) the makers didn't know there was nitrates in their salt.

The type I have in the fridge says "No added nitrates", which I would assume to mean they didn't add any more pure nitrates to the mix.

I'm still not sure it would be good for bore cleaning though.

Geno

Sissy stuff. We had asbestos gloves.

Years ago they added salt peter, which is potassium nitrate.

So we have a suspension agent of ethylene glycol and water.
Ammonium Hydroxide which is an oxidizer.
Sodium Nitrate which is a salt but also an oxidizer, but also an acidic base.
Then we have a solvent which depending on solution is a ph 2.5 to 10
Mixed all together forms CR10
Now what exactly removes the copper?

Swifty,

Ammonia?

The nitrogen in ammonia and the nitrate?

Been a long time since chem class, but something in there, alone or in combination is reactionary with the copper.

Of course, I've just finished my first cup o' Joe and I may just be blowing smoke........................


maybe it's really the little people.........elves you know.

Geno

BWalker,

I bet they did....................and probably fed it to soldiers so they wouldn't get too randy on a march.

Geno

Read the ingredients carefully before chasing rabbits.

ethylene glycol BUTYL ETHER - ethylene glycol BUTYL ETHER.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol

It's a solvent, NOT antifreeze.

Word.

The magic is in the proprietary, I suspect

I know exactly what it is, not going down a rabbit hole. It’s a base, dilutant or stabilizer. CAS# 111-76-2

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Barnes-Bullets-CR102.pdf

https://manavchem.com/pdf/GLYCOL%20ETHER.pdf CAS NO.111-76-2

There are wide range of glycol ethers which have bifunctional nature of ether and alcohol. cellosolves are monoether derivatives of ethylene glycol. They are excellent solvents, having solvent properties of both ethers and alcohols. Glycol family products are versatile compounds used in the fields include;
• Anti-freezing and anti-icing additive
• Intermediate in polymer production and chemical reaction
• Solvent or plasticizer for plastic, lacquer, paint and varnish
• Hydraulic, brake, thermal exchange fluids and fuel additive
• Humidifying and plasticizing
• Dehydrating
• Coupling printing inks
• Textile conditioning
• Solvent for dyes in textile and leather finishing
• Agricultural formulation
• General purpose cleaners
• Explosives manufacture
• Electrolytic component
• Humectant
• Water-based coating
• Preservative, rust remover, and disinfectant

Another common product

https://www.dow.com/assets/attachme...utyl_cellosolve/tds/butyl_cellosolve.pdf

But they do not attack Copper, they clean carbon and plastic residue.
Still all around it, but no cigar as to what actually attacks the copper.

Maybe:

https://www.quora.com/Can-copper-react-with-ammonium-hydroxide

Shouldn't this post be in the mennonite deer bologna pick-up thread?

😁 Bingo. Combining Ammonia hydroxide with a salt solution such as M pyrol and Sodium Nitrate increases the oxidation effects or corrosion on copper resulting in either a green or blue to black.

Common copper patinas of green, blue or black can be made using a solution of vinegar, salt and ammonia hydroxide.

OK. And I thought I had cabin fever...