24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,689
S
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,689
I bought a rifle with a painted (DIY) composite stock. I like to seal it with some sort of clear matte finish. Any recommendations for the product I should use? Thanks

BP-B2

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Flattening paint is done by adding silica to the paint and it will disturb the surface as the solvents evaporate. The solvents are usually water in acrylics (urethanes usually) at first and then lesser amounts of hydrocarbons... point in the description, the surface is rough and will wear quickly making it a poor sealant. For serious sealing always use gloss and roughen the surface.

On the other hand, the stock probably does not need it.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Not sure where you came up with that. I spent a good deal of my career working with coatings and that's the first I've heard that. Coatings are flattened by adding more pigment by volume to the coating and using pigment with a coarser grind. Gloss paint uses more resin and less pigment, and the pigment is finely ground. In any case, we are talking about a clear coating. How do you get a clear coating when you add sand to it?
There is no silica in Krylon Clear sealer.

Krylon Clear Sealer, Flat


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Really, how come they use it in every other matte finish they sell, but not this one? Silica has been the cheap and easy route to matte finishes for a very long time. You will find references everywhere to avoid matte finishes if durability is going to be an issue for the reasons I stated. There is silica in all of their matte finishes. It does not have to be listed on the MSDS because it is considered inert and is covered under nondisclosure rules of proprietary mixtures.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
IC B2

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
.
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Really, how come they use it in every other matte finish they sell, but not this one? Silica has been the cheap and easy route to matte finishes for a very long time. You will find references everywhere to avoid matte finishes if durability is going to be an issue for the reasons I stated. There is silica in all of their matte finishes. It does not have to be listed on the MSDS because it is considered inert and is covered under nondisclosure rules of proprietary mixtures.


Sitka, I took a closer look at the MSDS for the Krylon flat clear sealer and I see that indeed there is +/- 3% Amorphous Silica in the mix. You were correct on this and I stand corrected. Amorphous Silica is a hazardous substance with an OSHA exposure limit and is listed on the MSDS sheet.
I have not found references "everywhere" to avoid matte finishes. In fact, they exist for a reason and are common. When I use this finish on a painted stock I typically apply 5-6 light coats and have never had issues with it wearing off; if it did it is a simple matter to re-apply.

Last edited by NVhntr; 02/07/19.

Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755

Originally Posted by NVhntr
Not sure where you came up with that. I spent a good deal of my career working with coatings and that's the first I've heard that. Coatings are flattened by adding more pigment by volume to the coating and and using pigment with a coarser grind. Gloss paint uses more resin and less pigment, and the pigment is finely ground. In any case, we are talking about a clear coating. How do you get a clear coating when you add sand to it?
There is no silica in Krylon Clear sealer.

Krylon Clear Sealer, Flat


Just wanted to say, I appreciate hearing good info like this from people who know their stuff, so thanks for sharing. I've heard the silica thing before too, but that's outside my expertise so I never really knew the truth of it.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Originally Posted by NVhntr
.
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Really, how come they use it in every other matte finish they sell, but not this one? Silica has been the cheap and easy route to matte finishes for a very long time. You will find references everywhere to avoid matte finishes if durability is going to be an issue for the reasons I stated. There is silica in all of their matte finishes. It does not have to be listed on the MSDS because it is considered inert and is covered under nondisclosure rules of proprietary mixtures.


Sitka, I took a closer look at the MSDS for the Krylon flat clear sealer and I see that indeed there is +/- 3% Amorphous Silica in the mix. You were correct on this and I stand corrected. Amorphous Silica is a hazardous substance with an OSHA exposure limit and is listed on the MSDS sheet.
I have not found references "everywhere" to avoid matte finishes. In fact, they exist for a reason and are common. When I use this finish on a painted stock I typically apply 5-6 light coats and have never had issues with it wearing off; if it did it is a simple matter to re-apply.


No harm no foul, and thank you for rechecking. And too, thank you for pointing out silica is now required on the MSDS.

My background in finishes runs heavy to clear wood finishes and in that portion of the industry, silica is the primary matting agent. I can show you many references to avoiding matte finishes due to wear issues if you fail to find them.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
You could both be right. Silica is added to matte varnish and clear paint where there is no pigment. Now if you have a pigment adjusting the size and quantity of the pigment would do it. But I don't know if that's what they do.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Originally Posted by nighthawk
You could both be right. Silica is added to matte varnish and clear paint where there is no pigment. Now if you have a pigment adjusting the size and quantity of the pigment would do it. But I don't know if that's what they do.


It depends on the pigment...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
IC B3

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
I finish all my painted stocks with Acra-Coat - toughest stuff I've worked with the last ten years.

Last edited by Offshoreman; 02/14/19.

AKA The P-Man smile

If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Originally Posted by Offshoreman
I finish all my painted stocks with Acra-Coat - toughest stuff I've worked with the last ten years.

If you do not mind the yellowing...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
It's not really noticeable with medium to dark colors. I do gray, green, tan - some with spiderweb, & black - don't notice a yellowing effect.


AKA The P-Man smile

If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Originally Posted by Offshoreman
It's not really noticeable with medium to dark colors. I do gray, green, tan - some with spiderweb, & black - don't notice a yellowing effect.

Absolutely, if on dark colors and such the yellowing is not an issue.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Winter camo patterns will really show it.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
You may have a point there - not exactly an issue here smile


AKA The P-Man smile

If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
I thought I read you just got you some?

wink


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
I'm 20 miles from the coast between Charleston and Hilton Head - we've not had any snow yet - most of the time when we do, it's in Feb or Mar. Not much hunting then smile


AKA The P-Man smile

If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
I usually go with the Krylon for simplicity but Brownells has a spray epoxy that is pretty tuff. Yes it will yellow but not an issue on dark colors or camo. It will also sugar up or get chalky over time but by that time it is ready for a redo. Imron used to have a clear version and this was the best, not sure if it is available anymore. A clear gel coat is probably tops on wear resistance and also non yellowing but trickier to spray right, but it is worth the learning curve. These come in both polyester and epoxy with the latter being much better.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,593
The polyester finishes are much stronger and harder, but that only makes it harder to get a matte finish. They really "shine" when used for gloss finishes.
wink

And that pesky thing about a spray booth and supplied air...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
320 members (007FJ, 06hunter59, 01Foreman400, 10Glocks, 160user, 12344mag, 33 invisible), 2,086 guests, and 935 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,728
Posts18,400,822
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.082s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8995 MB (Peak: 1.0527 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 11:15:59 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS