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I have a couple of over and unders and a beautiful old Sauer and Sohn 16 with hammers a model 5 any way l took it out one time and noticed I had trouble hitting the doves and the ones I got I had to Iead a lot more than with my over and unders and was wondering if it takes longer for the hammers to strike the pins than a hammerless or if it is just me.......Thanks

welcome to the campfire. I don't know about the difference in lock time vs a conventional gun, but there are some pretty knowledgeable men on here that will get to your question. My guess would be that your eyes are distracted by the hammers themselves, and might be causing you to get out of sync a little. It does not take much to cause you to shoot behind, but you seem to have made up for it by using a much longer lead. BTW, I don't think many doves are missed due to too much lead, but some are.

Yes, the hammers can take a much longer time before hitting the pin. Look at the distance they have to travel compared to the pin on a more modern gun. Also, the hammer springs are likely not as "strong" as on a modern gun as one has to manually pull the hammer back rather than using the leverage of opening a break action.

I had a Belgian guild gun in 16 ga that I had Briley make a set of 28 ga tubes for. It was the only gun I regularly shot behind on sharply quartering away targets. I had to nearly double my observed leads on crossing targets.

Several things come into play here. Most people will shoot an O/U better than a SXS or automatic. Then, the hammergun will also add a certain degree of difficulty. I doubt that lock time is the issue.

Another consideration is the amount of drop on the stock. Many of the older shotguns will have more drop at the heel and that will change the dynamic of your shooting as well. Fit could be the most important aspect of shooting a shotgun.

As previously mentioned, the hammers will create some distraction too. I would suggest shooting some sporting clays with your shotgun to become more familiar with it. Don’t expect to shoot a SXS hammer gun as well as your O/U...

That's about right I had to double my lead ,thank you both.

very true about the fit, many older guns have up to an extra inch of drop at heel, seems like

I shoot them just fine, but I grew up with hammer guns.



What is this lead thing your talking about, just kidding sort of. I shot skeet, international skeet, trap both american and international(bunker) and was pretty good at it. I have no idea how much lead I used, just broke the bird where I needed to. I go back and for the between sxs, o/u and pumps and never have to give a thought about lead.

no hammers



back to hammers



back to no hammers, different stock style and 4" less barrel



Focus both eyes on the bird and let instinct take over.

Great photos,maybe I am not use to the full chokes but on a quartering shot it seemed like double the lead with the hammer gun over the superposed imp. and mod.

I to don't think you need twice the lead, but then SxSs are all I've shot. Well, a Model 10, 31, or 870 on occasion. I know some of the guys out to the club when I throw my annual SxS shoot and they get theirs out complain about how two barrels look. One guy claims he's looking down the left side of the left barrel. I shoot both hammerguns and hammerless. Only my 1873 Remington hammer lifter causes me any problems because it has the " mule ear " hammers. They stick straight up and at times on SCs they attract my attention. Now my Parkers or Remington 1882 and 1889 have lower hammers that don't break the sighting plane of the barrels, so it's like shooting a hammerless. I'm not sure, but I think you'd have to be a awful good shooter to notice a difference in the lock time. At least I never have and even break down and shoot my Parker single barrel trap gun and it feels the same. Lock time seems the same no matter what gun I'm shooting. I think the two barrels just look so different that it appears to be a different amount of lead needed. Also, I've opened up the chokes on all but one or two guns to SK, IC, or L Mod. You're gonna have to be really on with your leads with Full chokes. Good luck. Paul

The lock time is longer and longer lock time means more lead. Go back further in time to the wheel guns and it will become even more evident. If one isn't looking down the center rib then the shotgun doesn't fit, the old ones will in the majority of time have more drop. The hammers can be a distraction until one gets used to them and while two barrels side by side most certainly look different than an over/under, if you are looking at them instead of the target you won't shoot all that well. Look at the target and not the barrels, and in the heat of the moment you will not see the barrels or very little of them. If your are seeing a lot of barrel, either a O/U or SxS then you are either looking at them or looking between them and the target. Are you all that conscious of the hood of the car when doing 70mph on the interstate? Hope not. A single sighting plane for most will be easier to point, but SxS's have become like pumps to todays shooter. They are not what they grew up with, thus they make excuses on why they don't think they can shoot them well.

The SxS does have one disadvantage to the O/U and that is the shotgun tends to torque in recoil since the barrels are off the center line. The O/U comes more straight back.

Thanks for the great info now it's time for me to shoot a lot of clay's and get some practice.

O/U have disadvantages over a sxs, you have to break them open farther to get the shell out of the lower barrel making them a little more difficult in a duck blind. More horizontal surface for wind to catch. I do have a O/U hammer shotgun, killed a lot of ducks with it until steel became mandatory, with the access to bismuth shot I'm thinking it might be fun to break it out again.