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I have a 45-70 1886 with the short throat.


Going to get a 45-90 1886 off of layaway next month.


Looking for a 400-ish grain cast bullet that would work well in these rifles.

We are going to rent a throating reamer to fix the problem for good....give a little more flexibility.

Lyman 457643, 457193?

I was thinking we should match the throat to the bullet.....but maybe thats not a big deal??


Thanks.

Plain-based (properly sized) 15-18 BHN, 405gn WFN HSM, Oregon Trail, Beartooth, Missouri, Montana 457193, 457643, etc. Montana is great as you can choose the bullet options on the 457643 as far as alloy, hardness, etc.

BTW, would size the bullet to the throat, not the throat to the bullet.

Would load them on the lower side of pressure.

The throating of your barrel plays an important role as it is the last part of the chamber the sees the bullet on its way. Get it wrong and accuracy suffers. Throating, of course can be done by hand, but the issue is getting it done accurately. When I get throats altered I have it done by a smith with the barrel removed and properly dialed in using a lathe. With leverguns I tend to work with the factory throat and work around it.

You don't mention the brand of rifle but if it's a Winchester or Browning made by Miroku, the ones I have measured are tight with a groove diameter of around 0.457. The tight barrel dimensions and no throat will impact on what bullets fit. A bore riding design should work well, ideally one with no front driving band or a very short one.

You don't mention whether you intend to cast your own or buy commercially cast bullets. In either case you need to try to acquire samples to check fit in your throat. I would suggest trying RCBS 45-400 FNGC. They worked in my Browning without altering the throat. Best to check first before buying a mould.

NOE make bullet sizers that allow you to size the body or nose separately. This may help if you have bullets that don't fit.

I agree with JFE. Don't touch the throat. This could be a receipt for disaster. Look for a bullet style with a nose that rides on the lands. It can be seated so as to go slightly into the bore.This has proven to be an accuracy enhancer for me. Try different bullet styles first. .

Jim,
I have two comments on changing the throat on Miroku lever guns.

1. You may want to consider making this decision AFTER you have your Miroku 1886 45-90 in hand and can try some bullets in it.
My Miroku 1886 .45-90 handles Beartooth 325 grain cast bullets well and it has handled several brands of 300, 325, 400, 405, 450 grain jacketed bullets with no problem.

In my experience, the 450 grain jacketed and monolithic bullets are the upper limit to optimize the .45-90 weight/velocity equation, with 2150 fps 450 grain Kodiak and NFs shooting really well. Of course those are Elephant loads and not needed for most hunting in North America. All commercial .45-70 ammo has shot well in my rifle.

2. If you have a real NEED to throat it, study the case and do it. This applied to my Miroku 1895 .405 WCF as follows:
To duplicate a documented safe and successful load with the 400 grain Woodleigh bullets seated and crimped at the cannelure, I had a gunsmith extend the chamber until such dummy cartridges chambered with 25 thousandths clearance of the rifling. This worked quite well and had no adverse effect on velocity or accuracy of factory Hornady 300 grain ammo.
This was not an experiment or what-if toy, but a successful effort to reach the 400 grain velocities of the 450/400 Nitro Express, which is a well known killer of African DG . My 1895 has since take Cape Buffalo and Asian water buffalo with this load and I am confident that with the Woodie solids it can take an elephant..

I would agree...match the bullet to the throat, easy to do for cast and possible with custom jacketed bullets...it is VERY EASY to mess up a throat/neck and hurt accuracy, but accuracy is a relative term and leverguns have a finite accuracy potential anyway and if you just HAVE to muck about with the throat have a gunsmith do it or if you have the skill, equipment and knowledge to do it then have at it, you probably have the knowledge and expertise to to work out the details BEFORE WAVING a reamer at it.

COAL and cycling the action goes along with throating so don't forget that. My Marlin 1895/336 will handle 2.635" COAL's with specific brand/weights of bullets and some "pointy" ones....I just rechambered a 45-70 Numerich arms barrel to 458 WM and use cases with bullets lengths and weights that work through the action, staying below the pressure limits of the Marlin receiver.

Lots of things to consider and work through BEFORE reaming OR rechambering. I would do some load workups first, 450-400 velos are relative low, ≈2000-2100 fs +/- with a 400 gr bullet and are relatively easily achieved in a 45-70 with selected loads and COAL's and even easier with a 45-90.

My favorite bullet for many of my 45 cal rifles is the TrueShot 43 gr FP GC...I've also shot a variety of cast 300-700 gr by local casters, several online commercial casters and my own molds plus Accurate Molds and Mountain Molds are readily available....but do a chamber cast...again BEFORE flogging the reamer.

Luck

.

I would never alter a throat, I load to fit the throat....it's not hard. I have seen and fired a number of rifles that had a throat alteration. In all cases the accuracy suffered. It is simple to make the ammo fit the throat and much less expensive. I would never buy a rifle that had the throat altered or the chamber modified in any way. It's your rifle do with it as you please but don't say you were not warned.