Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 223/556 loads using LeverEvolution Powder

That's what a chrono is for; but for rule of thumb guesstimates, I use 35 FPS change per inch of barrel change, but as we all know, book loads don't always yield the same results in the real world, even in the same barrel length as was used to determine the load.

MM

The spec I was quoting is for the M193 round.

Accurate Powders post pressure data for the 5.56 and list 62,350psi as max. As an example their max loads for TAC, are mostly between 61k and 62k.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/WPHandloading-Guide-7.0-Web-REV.pdf

Yes, Western Powder's load data lists separate data for 223 and 5.56, with pressure data for both. Since they are the makers of that powder, it's the best source I know of.

I don't consider 5.56 pressure too hot for an AR, that's what they are designed to handle. That seems like an odd statement and I'm not really sure where you're coming from there.

Seems like a lot of guys here are used to going by 223 data, and think anything approaching 5.56 specs is "really hot". Never mind the millions of ARs actually shooting factory 5.56 ammo...

Also, I know from experience the typical "rule of thumb" estimates for velocity loss are essentially worthless; actual velocity loss when you cut down a barrel is so variable depending on the load that a guess of 25, 35, or 50 fps per inch is rarely correct. For example, light bullets usually lose more velocity in short barrels than heavy bullets, and those typical rules of thumb are based on medium to light bullets in hunting rifle barrel lengths. None of that is similar to what we're discussing here with 16" barrels and heavy for caliber bullets.

I compare velocity out of my 16" guns with IMI and LC M193 ammo and my loads are close in velocity which should mean close in pressure.

MK262 is the only standard I know of that runs 5.56 pressure. It runs around 2750 fps in an 18" barrel. Armedferret says he's getting 2740 fps in his 16" gun with the 77 smk and you said you see about the same. To me that is "really hot".Formy posted some 16" results with MK262 at 2633 the other day. I'm not sure if it's altitude or chrony differences but it's interesting.

You may have missed the part where I said "no pressure signs"....flat primers or a light ejector swipe would be "hot", popped primers or barbs sticking off the head from the ejector is "really hot". If there ain't signs of pressure, it ain't a hot load.

One sign of excess pressure is loose primer pockets.

But unless a primer falls out, you won't notice that until you reload that case.

If you're loosening primer pockets on the first shot, it's definitely excess pressure and time to back off. In ARs usually I see ejector hole marks (not just swipes, but actual raised circles on the case head) but not always.Those marks can be a sign of over pressure, but the absence of them doesn't mean you're OK.

If a case is reloadable 6-8 times with tight primer pockets, pressure isn't close to max. I consider max where a case is reloadable 3-4 times (assuming no other pressure signs either), and I've seen well above 2750 in 16" barrels with 75/77gr bullets with that criteria, with several different powders. That is mostly using LC brass, sometimes I'll use Win or PMC brass as well.

One side comment about ejector swipes as a pressure sign - excess headspace (even .010") or an overgassed action can both cause these even with lower pressure loads. I consider them false pressure signs in those circumstances.

Also - correlating your velocity to a factory load means nothing if you aren't using the same powder. Even then, you have no idea what actual pressure is from the factory load in your barrel, only a loose guess.

So, bottom line it for me.

Stock up on Lever or Benchmark for most 223/5.56 needs 55 grain through 75 grain?

Benchmark, Xterminator, and TAC for me. I use Lever in other cartridges but am not very fond of it in heavy bullet 5.56 loads, because of excess gas. I often shoot suppressed though, which makes Lever worse. It does produce good velocity.

What do you want to do, David?

If I was plinking I'd get the cheapest ball powder I could find, like WC844 or 846.

If I wanted to shoot precision type matches, I'd load up on a temp-resistant stick powder like Varget, AR-Comp, 8208, H4895, N140 or even a better ball powder like TAC. You won't know which one is best for your gun until you try it.

Is Varget temp resistant?

I’ll be shooting 55 grain spirepoints and 75 BTHP mostly.

Varget is one of the most temperature insensitive powders out there.
I love it for 55s & 75s. Not the highest velocity w/55s, but great accuracy.

H4895 is also temp resistant and is one of my favorites for heavy .223 loads. I get equal or better accuracy compared to Varget and higher velocities. Both are extruded medium grain length powders and I usually weigh the loads for either of these powders.
TAC and Xterminator meter great, being fine grained ball powders, but I have never found them able to match the accuracy of the better extruded single base powders. I do use them for the lighter weight plinker stuff.

I've used Varget out to 600 and it will hold X-ring elevation just dumping charges out of a Lee Perfect measure. There's no need to weigh charges, just keep an eye out for bridging.

"I've seen well above 2750 in 16" barrels with 75/77gr bullets"

With 75's I have too but not with 77 SMK's. MK 262 is supposed to be loaded as hot as it can be with a powder that is not available to us. My whole deal is to see if something else out there is better. I watched the video armedferret put up the other day on MK262 clone and even that guy is only getting 2750+ with an 18" barrel. Just trying to sort this out like everyone else, guess I'll spend the money on some 2520...

David right now (and I'll probably stick with it), TAC is what I'm keeping on hand.

I used to have lots of TAC, because it works for the 223 and the 308.

I may have to go back to it.

I generally agree with all of that, with 5 loadings as my nominal target.


What I meant by my earlier comment about 5.56 pressure, is that I don't think I've ever seen a direct translation of the NATO standard to PSI...............I've generally understood it was some around 62K, but never really seen in spelled out. Obviouly it must be around 62-63K as that's where Western maxes their specified 5.56 loads for their various powders.

But at any rate, 2750 from a 16" barrel is not leaving much on the table, & IMO, & has got to be at, or very near, max 5.56 pressure level, especially when BH MK 262 is running below 2700 from a 16" barrel...............with a given bullet & barrel, velocity only comes from pressure, given that different powders may have slightly different pressure curves.



I generally agree with that direction too.

MM

TAC or 8208 (right next to each other on BR Chart), any day over Varget by a whole lot................Varget is a good performing powder, but if you're loading a lot of rounds, it's a royal PIA because it meters so poorly through a powder measure. And it's a lot more expensive than TAC, which is about as cheap as you can get for a top notch powder.

I've got a lot of 8208 that I got about half price, but if I didn't have it & wanted a good, economical equivalent, TAC would be #1.

JMHO

Thanks, MM,

I’m giving 8082 a strong look.

Being that you mentioned AA2520 I am getting 2994 with 25.5 gr behind the Nosler 70 gr rdf in my 24 inch barreled Ar.