Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 35 Whelen with modern powder and bullets...?

Good grief I just realized I had my first Whelen back almost 30 years ago when I was about 20 years old. It was a Remington 7600 that I wish I still had lol. Still remember those awesome looking 250 gr RN factory loads they had, I think they used the Hornady RN for those.

Ya tough to beat a whelen for most hunting conditions, especially in B.C.....

Yep it is my "big gun" now. Had a 375 Ruger for a while too and could see no difference in killing power.

I don't doubt it, I'd happily pack my whelen anywhere for any critter, and never feel like I needed "more"...

Use an appropriate bullet and you will never be disappointed.
Been a tough winter, and I've been lazy, so have not put any over the chronograph. Maybe when spring comes along. I don't seem to have all the curiosity I one had, the accuracy and clean burn being satisfying, but as I said, I'm getting pretty lazy.
I will note that I used up near 2# of the PP200MR getting "my" load developed and fine tuned and to establish confidence in repeatable reliability. Hope this makes sense.

When I first got my Whelen more than 25 yrs. ago I developed a load for it, lots of time at the reloading bench and at the range. The result of that load development found that 225 gr. bullets and IMR 4064 was the combination that my rifle liked best. Fast forward to last year, I had done a lot of reading and research and decided to do another round of load development and testing. I found that 225 gr. bullets and IMR 4064 were still the combination that produced the best accuracy. In the process I discovered an old Ken Waters Pet Load that consisted of Hornady 200 gr. RN over IMR 3031, this load produced three shot cloverleaf groups at 100 yds. consistently. This became my new whitetail hunting load, it proved to be an excellent performer producing a perfectly mushroomed bullet that retained 66% of its original weight. In my time with the Whelen I have never found a combination that would not shoot well, cast bullets, pistol bullets or jacketed bullets it shoots them all.

I've been loading for my Whelen for twenty years. Back when I first started hand loading, in the mid-90s, I shot up hundreds of $s worth of bullets and powder having a great time experimenting. After I shot out the second barrel of a rifle, I went to using handholds that gave me the best accuracy, decent velocity, and most importantly, good temperature stability. Most of my rifle hunting takes place in the late seasons and I quickly saw POI changes with my original Whelen favorite powder, Re 15. That was also about the time most loads for Re 15 suddenly decreased in all manuals. Brian Pierce convince me to try H4895 with my 250 grain Partitions and I was very pleased with the result. I haven't had any interest to get any better than my old school load.

My current process when starting handloading for a new to me rifle is to find a couple of top loads between a few manuals, load up a couple, shoot until I'm happy, and go hunting. My load development is now typically less than 20 bullets per rifle. Gives me lots of time to master the rifle from all field positions and to shoot better. Not to mention the time and cost saving! Back in the mid-90s, bullets were cheap, not so much now.

I shot several elk, both bulls and cows, using the Re 15 loads with the 250 grain Hornady SP. The first couple or so went down with no problem. Then the new lots of Hornady bullet in about 2006 were noticeably different in external construction with much less exposed lead at the tip. The next couple of elk shot with the new bullets took several shots to put down for good. Tracing the wound channels clearly indicated that the newer bullets were not expanding to any appreciable degree. I switched to the 250 grain Partition and everything works fine.

Enjoy.

I've used 250 gr. bullets for 90% of my hunts with a Whelen, Shot a bunch of elk, and a few moose and caribou with them. 2500 FPS is fast enough for me, and I get that speed with RL 15 and formerly used IMR4064. I really like the discontinued Speer Grand slams but have had very constant results even with the standard Speer and with Hornady interlocks.

I think we must ask ourselves how we are to achieve 338 WM ballistics (250 gr. bullet @ 2700 fps) with a cartridge based on a 30-06, which of course has a smaller capacity than the 338 WM. Answer: By loading the Whelen to excessive pressures. My suggestion is to keep it real with 250 gr. velocities no more than 2500 fps.

Back in the '90's an old gunsmith buddy and I built a 35 Whelen that was to be my elk rifle. He was a crotchety, whiskey drinking old bastard, but new how to make a rifle shoot. His forte' was building super accurate silhouette rifles, and many of his clients were wealthy shooters residing in Meh-hee-ko. I based my Whelen on a VZ24 action and he installed a 24" Douglas Premium barrel with a 1-12" twist. Loaded with Varget the rifle was/is extremely accurate. My first six or seven test loads consisted of Varget and 225 gr. Nosler Partitions, and the largest group was 1 1/4". I shot a nice 6x6 NM bull with that load. I switched to 225 gr. TSX's and things got even better-



While this load was certainly and exception, it was rare for any load with the TSX to group over 3/4". My old dad used my rifle to finish off a 6x6 he'd wounded with his 338-06. It was almost dark and the bull was ambling straight away probably 100 yds. or so distance. Dad hit him squarely in the tater hole/anus with a TSX, the bull took a few more steps and flopped over, dead. The bullet traveled from the anus to the front of the right shoulder, under the skin, where we found it when skinning the bull-





That's a 71 year old man hunting at 11,000+ ft.

A couple of seasons later I shot a bull with the same rifle and load at a lasered 360 yds. distance. I was shooting downhill and the bullet entered high in the right shoulder and travelled up into the neck where it exited. Another season or two another bull was shot at maybe 50 yds.

Dad has a 700 Classic in 35 Whelen. These rifles are amazingly light, but also beat the soup out of the shooter. But the light weight makes them handy for mountain hunting. I worked up a load for Dad with a 250 gr. Speer SP and stopped when I reached 2500 fps. I shot exactly three groups-



Dad carried the rifle and shot a bull at 44 yds. When I went to look for the bull who'd run at the shot, it looked like someone had a 5/8" garden hose squirting a steam of blood on the ground. The bullet all but disintegrated and made an enormous mess.

The entrance hole from the inside-






So there's my take on the Whelen- Varget or Re-15, take your pick, and a 225 gr. TSX.

35WN

...and a happy 74 year old man, still hunting at 11,000 ft.!



35WN

SALUTE to you at 74 and able to hunt in the Mtns ! !

Congrats.

Jerry

Hey great pictures much appreciated. Amazing penetration from that 225 gr TSX, I shot a moose with them at close range and was impressed.

I'll mention your comment on a 250 gr @ 2700 fps and that no one is likely to try with the classic 35 Whelen powders but it is possible now with brand new powders previously not available. In my lightweight rifle I know I sure don't want extra speed lol. 200-225's do pretty much everything I need these days. FYI a bullet that I really like as well that will perform just as good or better than the 250 gr Speer is the 200 gr TTSX, you might consider them for your dad's rifle.

While I don’t doubt some of the velocities quoted, most tested data would lead me to think that any 250 grain load velocity above 2,600 fps or so is venturing into over pressures. Just because there is no sticky bolt lift, flattened primers, etc. doesn’t mean high pressures do not exist. I think to exhibit classic mechanical overpressure signs the load is probably in excess of 70,000 psi. I don’t recall any published data for 250 gr bullets exceeding 2,600 for a 22” barrel. Nosler shows a few loads above that but with a 26” test barrel.

Again yes Bubba is capable of overloading anything. Do you really think Speer doesn't know what they are doing and are exceeding normal chamber pressures? That possibility would be next to zero in my opinion. They list Power Pro 2000 MR as reaching 2709 fps, CFE 223 reaching 2664 fps and Power Pro Varmint getting 2617 fps all from an unspecified barrel length which I assume is going to be 26" since that seems normal these days.

No one doubt's a new powder like RL 26 in the 270 or 280 Rem for example reaching a speeds lot higher safely than other powders available previously. It looks like they found a couple of great new powders that work very well in the Whelen and I bet similar sized rounds.

I worked up a load with CFE223 that gets 2,723 avg fps with a 225 gr Partition at less powder than Speer data lists as max for 220 gr. And that is from a 22” 1:16 barrel M700. When test barrel length is not listed, I have my doubts. Take 100 fps off their data and that is realistic for most rifles. Who has a 26” barrel .35 Whelen anyway? JB has a good chapter on the .35 Whelen in Gun Gack #1. Happy Trails

Just a FYI, Speer manual #15 says test barrel length of 24" with 1 in 16" twist. Power pro 2000-MR getting 2709 fps with their 250gr bullet.

Lee

I have some CFE and may do some load development with it but top loads using 3031 make my Mauser buck plenty and I get just under 2500 fps out of it's 19 inch barrel with the 250 gr. Speer or Hornady. I am using the same brass I formed from Federal 30-06 cases all 40 of them back in 1987. Maybe the load is hot but it is the max load from an early Speer manual and it shoots far better than expected. Recoil is such that I can feel it depress the recoil pad. I don't really need 2700 fps out of a 250 grain bullet myself.

Looks like some good times in the woods.

Congratulations!

The 35 W. Is one of those great rounds, that will always be great. (per me)

Polecat, thanks for that. I have not tried PP-2000-MR and probably won’t since I have several tubs of CFE223 around and it gives me the speed and accuracy I was looking for with a 225 gr Partition. Happy Trails

I get all the speed and accuracy I need for hunting whitetails with moderate loads of IMR 3031 and IMR 4064. Ya don't need to hot rod the Whelen in order for it to be effective in my experience.