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#13642525 03/10/19
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Decided to extend our 1000 yard range out to 1760, we have a lot fun shooting out to 1000 yards so why not 1 mile ? gave it a try this morning Whew, thats a long shot was kicking up dirt all around my pig target but after about 10 shots the wind got up to 15 mph and kicked my butt, wind kept picking up so I quit, sure fun to try 1 mile. Rio7

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You need a mastodon target!!


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Sounds fun. What were you shooting?

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Sure do need a bigger target maybe a box car, was shooting a 6.5 PRC with 139 scenars, that's all I had loaded for it. think I will try my 300 Win mag in the morning before work, if there's not much wind. Rio7

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That'll humble you. I was gonna say "separate the men from the boys" but that'll separate the men from the men.



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Blue, you're one wild and crazy guy. That just sounds like it would be a blast.


Once you get the 6.5 tuned in, you need to try your trusty .22 lr.


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Owl, No .22 gave them all to my grandkids, think I will load up some 147 gr. Eld-m for the 6.5 and see if they buck the wind a little better than the 139 Scenars. anyone got any advise on shooting a mile? Rio7

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Originally Posted by RIO7
Owl, No .22 gave them all to my grandkids, think I will load up some 147 gr. Eld-m for the 6.5 and see if they buck the wind a little better than the 139 Scenars. anyone got any advise on shooting a mile? Rio7

Yes I do have some, "get more gun" lol.
If your really serious about that, be thinking about the long and heavy 300 gr bullets traveling at 3000 fps or better.

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You don’t need a bigger gun, you just need to keep practicing at a mile. The further you go, the more critical your wind reading skills become.

My .243AI/105AM has outshot a .338LapuaAI/300Scenar at a mile, due to shootability, familiarity with the load and DOPE, and the ability to easily spot shots through the scope due to much less concussive blast at the shot.

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Originally Posted by yobuck
Originally Posted by RIO7
Owl, No .22 gave them all to my grandkids, think I will load up some 147 gr. Eld-m for the 6.5 and see if they buck the wind a little better than the 139 Scenars. anyone got any advise on shooting a mile? Rio7

Yes I do have some, "get more gun" lol.
If your really serious about that, be thinking about the long and heavy 300 gr bullets traveling at 3000 fps or better.


Heavy is better?

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Jordan Smith, I do have 2 .243 A.I. rifles, that I hunt with, would have to change out scopes to give them a try, that could be fun, predator hunting is over till next fall, and I have a couple of good scopes in the safe, what the hell might give that a try also, after all it's just for fun. Rio7

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You don’t need a bigger gun, you just need to keep practicing at a mile. The further you go, the more critical your wind reading skills become.

My .243AI/105AM has outshot a .338LapuaAI/300Scenar at a mile, due to shootability, familiarity with the load and DOPE, and the ability to easily spot shots through the scope due to much less concussive blast at the shot.


Your 1 mile range must be quite a bit different than my 1 mile range......
At 1000 yards my most accurate guns are a 6-284 with 107SMK's and a 6BR AI shooting 95gr VLD's........ at 1 mile at my range I have never spotted a miss with a 6mm bullet and I always have a spotter with an alpha spotting scope.

I have a 338LapuaAI shooting 300gr SMK's, I can always spot my own shot through my rifle scope. My 338 out shoots my 6's 10 times out of 10 at a mile

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Originally Posted by RIO7
Jordan Smith, I do have 2 .243 A.I. rifles, that I hunt with, would have to change out scopes to give them a try, that could be fun, predator hunting is over till next fall, and I have a couple of good scopes in the safe, what the hell might give that a try also, after all it's just for fun. Rio7

I’m not saying that the .243AI is the ideal 1-mile rifle, I’m just pointing out that there are larger factors at play in your ability to hit at a mile, than the size of your gun or bullet. The 147ELD in your 6.5 PRC is a great option.

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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You don’t need a bigger gun, you just need to keep practicing at a mile. The further you go, the more critical your wind reading skills become.

My .243AI/105AM has outshot a .338LapuaAI/300Scenar at a mile, due to shootability, familiarity with the load and DOPE, and the ability to easily spot shots through the scope due to much less concussive blast at the shot.


Your 1 mile range must be quite a bit different than my 1 mile range......
At 1000 yards my most accurate guns are a 6-284 with 107SMK's and a 6BR AI shooting 95gr VLD's........ at 1 mile at my range I have never spotted a miss with a 6mm bullet and I always have a spotter with an alpha spotting scope.

I have a 338LapuaAI shooting 300gr SMK's, I can always spot my own shot through my rifle scope. My 338 out shoots my 6's 10 times out of 10 at a mile

It’s quite possible. A 1-mile range with the target set amongst a lot of vegetation makes spotting misses with the smaller bullets difficult. Shooting against a disked crop field, rocky cliff face, etc, makes spotting misses easy, even at very long range and with small bullets. The ~3-second flight time makes it pretty easy to spot misses even with larger rifles, but not as easy as with rifles that smack you with less concussive blast, etc, as long as the bullet makes a big enough splash to be seen in the terrain behind your target wink

I’m a fan of the 7WSM with 180ELD or 195 EOL for extended distance as a pretty great compromise between ballistic efficiency and “splash on target”, and reasonable recoil and blast. Having said that, I have had good luck with 6mm, .224”, 6.5mm, .308”, .338” bullets, etc, as well, so I’m not offended if other guys have different preferences.

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I must admit that I have never shot into a disked crop field at a mile, but have shot at many a rocky cliff face seldom seeing a splash with 224" or 6mm bullets at a mile, guess leica and Swaro don't make glass like they used to or mabey the soil is not as splashy to the south

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So far all the advise and comments on shooting a mile have been very helpful, we are having a great time trying to hit the steel pig at 1760 yards, so far no luck, with daylight savings time we have time at the end of the day to blaze away with our hunting rifles, and laugh at each other. As Jordan Smith, commented learning the wind has a lot to do with shooting 1 mile, and the wind is making it very interesting. Rio7

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Originally Posted by RIO7
Owl, No .22 gave them all to my grandkids, think I will load up some 147 gr. Eld-m for the 6.5 and see if they buck the wind a little better than the 139 Scenars. anyone got any advise on shooting a mile? Rio7


no Blue, but I can give you a lot of advise on MISSING BY A MILE!

I'm real good at that, in a lot of things...

Best of luck with it all and have a great day!

cheers and best regards...

and give Smoke a scratch between the ears for me if you please..


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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by yobuck
Originally Posted by RIO7
Owl, No .22 gave them all to my grandkids, think I will load up some 147 gr. Eld-m for the 6.5 and see if they buck the wind a little better than the 139 Scenars. anyone got any advise on shooting a mile? Rio7

Yes I do have some, "get more gun" lol.
If your really serious about that, be thinking about the long and heavy 300 gr bullets traveling at 3000 fps or better.


Heavy is better?

In a word yes, especially when coupled with velocity. As for wind reading, it's much easier to do after the last one lands.
Check out the serious extreme distance shooters and see what they are using.

Them aint my rules, but they are the rules if your serious about shooting those kind of distances.

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Originally Posted by boatanchor
I must admit that I have never shot into a disked crop field at a mile, but have shot at many a rocky cliff face seldom seeing a splash with 224" or 6mm bullets at a mile, guess leica and Swaro don't make glass like they used to or mabey the soil is not as splashy to the south

Soil type makes a huge difference. (Or I guess rock type too.) I know coarse, sandy soil doesn't show near as much as dry clay.


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Originally Posted by boatanchor
I must admit that I have never shot into a disked crop field at a mile, but have shot at many a rocky cliff face seldom seeing a splash with 224" or 6mm bullets at a mile, guess leica and Swaro don't make glass like they used to or mabey the soil is not as splashy to the south

I don’t know what to tell you, man. Maybe you’re shooting at granite cliffs and I’m shooting at crumbly, porous rock. Maybe it’s a difference between the eyesight of myself/my shooting partners, and you and yours. One thing is for certain, it ain’t the alpha glass’s fault wink

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by boatanchor
I must admit that I have never shot into a disked crop field at a mile, but have shot at many a rocky cliff face seldom seeing a splash with 224" or 6mm bullets at a mile, guess leica and Swaro don't make glass like they used to or mabey the soil is not as splashy to the south

I don’t know what to tell you, man. Maybe you’re shooting at granite cliffs and I’m shooting at crumbly, porous rock. Maybe it’s a difference between the eyesight of myself/my shooting partners, and you and yours. One thing is for certain, it ain’t the alpha glass’s fault wink



I have the same experience as boatanchor.



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by boatanchor
I must admit that I have never shot into a disked crop field at a mile, but have shot at many a rocky cliff face seldom seeing a splash with 224" or 6mm bullets at a mile, guess leica and Swaro don't make glass like they used to or mabey the soil is not as splashy to the south

I don’t know what to tell you, man. Maybe you’re shooting at granite cliffs and I’m shooting at crumbly, porous rock. Maybe it’s a difference between the eyesight of myself/my shooting partners, and you and yours. One thing is for certain, it ain’t the alpha glass’s fault wink



I have the same experience as boatanchor.


+1

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Originally Posted by RIO7
Sure do need a bigger target maybe a box car, was shooting a 6.5 PRC with 139 scenars, that's all I had loaded for it. think I will try my 300 Win mag in the morning before work, if there's not much wind. Rio7


The PRC/.697 BC melding,ala 147...is gonna be tough for a 300 Winny to hang with.

No thang to spot .243's at said distance.

Hint....................


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As I mentioned above, certain kinds of terrain make spotting misses with smaller bullets at extended distance (2000 meters, 1610 meters, 1000 meters, and even 500 meters with challenging background conditions) very difficult. By no means am I saying you can always spot your misses at a mile with small bullets. I’ve shot at a mile and beyond in various types of terrain, with various chamberings and bullets.

I’m simply pointing out that the OP seemed to be able to see his splash in the dirt (in his AO) with a 139 Scenar at a mile just fine, so a bigger bullet isn’t needed to spot his misses. Needing a bigger gun isn’t the problem.

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Bullets matter wayyyyyyyy more than headstamps.

Hint..................(grin)


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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No trouble spotting 308Win/208 AMax to a mile here. Splashes easily seen through the 10X Super Duper Sniper.

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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
No trouble spotting 308Win/208 AMax to a mile here. Splashes easily seen through the 10X Super Duper Sniper.

[Linked Image]


Indeed MM....and my eyes aren't as good as some.

The only time I had trouble was the years it rained hard and soaked the ground. Impacts got kinda swallowed up in the wet, but even then I got maybe one in three.

Good times!

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That gentle 20-40 mph 'breeze' dries things up fairly fast......grin

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True dat....

But I bet that no one would be seeing any impacts out there right now with at least a foot of snow on the ground.

Ya'll have had some pretty cold conditions up there in the last couple months.

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We are not having trouble spotting the misses, so far we having trouble seeing a hit. 10 of us put $5.00 bucks a piece in a coffee can first guy to get a confirmed hit on the pig gets the money and bragging rights, up till now it has not been serious but I think that's about to change. Rio7

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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
No trouble spotting 308Win/208 AMax to a mile here. Splashes easily seen through the 10X Super Duper Sniper.

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Shane,

Seems I recall flinging some of those moly’d 208’s at those plates myself, and in subsequent years sending .224”, 243”, 6.5mm, 7mm, .338”, .510”, etc, bullets at those same plates. Good times!

Hope all is well in your world!

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Originally Posted by Oldslowdog

True dat....

But I bet that no one would be seeing any impacts out there right now with at least a foot of snow on the ground.

Ya'll have had some pretty cold conditions up there in the last couple months.


I'm sure NE MT has a ton of snow right now.

We're buried in snow, over here in the 'banana belt'. It hasn't warmed up enough to start melting yet.

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Our backyard, a couple days ago,

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
No trouble spotting 308Win/208 AMax to a mile here. Splashes easily seen through the 10X Super Duper Sniper.

[Linked Image]

Shane,

Seems I recall flinging some of those moly’d 208’s at those plates myself, and in subsequent years sending .224”, 243”, 6.5mm, 7mm, .338”, .510”, etc, bullets at those same plates. Good times!

Hope all is well in your world!


Good times for sure! We're doing good here.

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I was shooting up in MI where the backstop was sandy. That soil swallowed bullets without so much as a burp!


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
By no means am I saying you can always spot your misses at a mile with small bullets.


Interesting.........earlier in the thread that's exactly what you were saying whistle

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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
By no means am I saying you can always spot your misses at a mile with small bullets.


Interesting.........earlier in the thread that's exactly what you were saying whistle

Take a deep breath and let it go ...................


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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
By no means am I saying you can always spot your misses at a mile with small bullets.


Interesting.........earlier in the thread that's exactly what you were saying whistle

Show me where.

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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
By no means am I saying you can always spot your misses at a mile with small bullets.


Interesting.........earlier in the thread that's exactly what you were saying whistle


No he didn’t. Not one time.



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I was thinking about a 22 LR round travels a mile and half right? so why not a 22 lr for a mile shoot as was mentioned earlier.. think of all the gophers that would be in range at that distance. which bullet would be best? I think the HP would be the best.. what say you all...


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You don’t need a bigger gun, you just need to keep practicing at a mile. The further you go, the more critical your wind reading skills become.

My .243AI/105AM has outshot a .338LapuaAI/300Scenar at a mile, due to shootability, familiarity with the load and DOPE, and the ability to easily spot shots through the scope due to much less concussive blast at the shot.


I could be wrong, but didn't you say "the ability to easily spot shots through the scope" when discussing shooting your .243AI/105AM at a mile?

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Originally Posted by yobuck
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by yobuck
Originally Posted by RIO7
Owl, No .22 gave them all to my grandkids, think I will load up some 147 gr. Eld-m for the 6.5 and see if they buck the wind a little better than the 139 Scenars. anyone got any advise on shooting a mile? Rio7

Yes I do have some, "get more gun" lol.
If your really serious about that, be thinking about the long and heavy 300 gr bullets traveling at 3000 fps or better.


Heavy is better?

In a word yes, especially when coupled with velocity. As for wind reading, it's much easier to do after the last one lands.
Check out the serious extreme distance shooters and see what they are using.

Them aint my rules, but they are the rules if your serious about shooting those kind of distances.



Interesting.

When answering this question:
Quote
Do bullets with same BC & velocity but different weight/caliber drift the same?


Bryan Litz said

Quote
Bullets having the same BC and MV will have the same trajectories; drop, drift, retained velocity, tof, etc. The only difference will be energy.


Deeper into the conversation someone asked along the lines of "What about inertia?" and Bryan elaborated

Quote
As stated, inertia is accounted for by BC because the bullet weight is accounted for in BC.

But at supersonic speed, aerodynamics play a much larger role than mass.

Consider that, a .30 caliber 185 grain Juggernaut bullet has 1.26 lb of air resistance at Mach 2.5 (2790 fps), and the .224 cal 90 grain VLD has 0.62 lb of air resistance at the same speed. The .224 cal bullet has so much less air resistance for two reasons; primarily because of it's smaller cross section, and further because of it's lower drag shape.

Now consider that you've got 1.26 lb of drag on a bullet that weighs only 185/7000 = 0.0264 lb; the force of aerodynamic drag is 47.73 times greater than the weight of the bullet. This relationship is proportional to the bullets acceleration (velocity decay).

The .224 caliber 90 grain bullet weighs 90/7000 = 0.0129 lb, so aerodynamic drag on this bullet is 0.62/0.0129 = 48.06 times greater than it's weight.

You'll notice that; although both bullets have drastically different amounts of aerodynamic drag, and both have different mass, the ratio of aerodynamic drag and bullet mass is essentially the same, with the .30 cal being slightly better. In other words, their acceleration (velocity decay) will also be very similar.

You may also recall that the BC's of these bullets are also nearly the same, with the .30 cal 185 being slightly better.

The above is just a different way of looking at the math behind BC, which breaks out the aerodynamic drag from the mass. It shows how/why two bullets with the same BC will slow at the same rate; it's because they experience the same ratio of aerodynamic drag compared to their weight.

For those interested in further explanation, you can calculate the aerodynamic drag in pounds using the formula:
F=1/2*rho*V^2*S*CD
Where:
F is the force of drag in lb
rho is the air density (0.002375 sl/ft^3)
V is the bullet velocity in fps (Mach 2.5 is 2790 fps)
S is the bullet's cross sectional area in ft: (.308/2/12)^2*pi = .000517 for .308 cal, and (.224/2/12)^2*pi = .000274 for .224 cal
CD is the drag coefficient at a given speed (.263 for the 185 Juggernaut at Mach 2.5, and .243 for the 90 grain VLD at the same speed).

Solving for the .30 cal 185:
F=1/2*.002375*2790^2*.000517*.263
F=1.257 lb

Replace variables for .224 to calculate it's drag.

That's actually the hardest part about solving a ballistic equation. Knowing the force, you can solve for the (negative) acceleration. Want to know how much the bullet slows down in 0.1 seconds, Newtons second law is: F=ma (Force = mass times acceleration). Said differently, acceleration is Force divided by mass.

a=F/m

We just calculated the force: 1.26 lb for the 185 grain, acceleration is then: 1.26/(185/7000/32.2*) = 1535 fps/s. (*Note you have to divide weight by 32.2 to get mass in slugs.)

So the bullet should slow down about 153.5 fps in .1 seconds. The ballistics program says: 148.5. Why the difference? Because as soon as the bullet started slowing down, the force of aerodynamic drag began diminishing. In a real ballistics solver, these equations are solved every 0.001 seconds in order to accurately capture the (negative) acceleration of the bullet as it flies downrange.

Further complicating matters is the fact that the drag coefficient changes with Mach number. If you're refering to a standard drag model (G1 or G7), the CD's are tabulated against Mach the same in every ballistics solver so it makes it easy. The G7 standard drag model is a better match for our long range bullets.

To close the loop, we can extract BC from Newtons second law:

a=F/m.

We know the aerodynamic Force from above, so:

a=1/2*rho*V^2*S*CD/m

The inverse of sectional density can be pulled out of the above:

a=1/2*rho*V^2*pi*cal^2*CD/(4*144*m)

a=1/2*rho*V^2*pi*CD*cal^2*32.2/(4*144*bw) with the bold terms being 'SD' terms. Note we removed the 32.2 factor and are now using bw (bullet weight) instead of mass.

Remember the equation for BC=bw/(cal^2*i7)

Where i7=CD/CD7 (drag coefficient of your bullet divided by the drag coefficient of the G7 standard)

Using these terms in Newtons second law:

a=1/2*rho*V^2*pi*CD7*i7*cal^2*32.2/(4*144*bw)

And now the bold terms are BC terms. Note that BC is inverted here which makes sense because higher BC means less acceleration (velocity decay).

Now let's see if the numbers work out. Note CD7 is the G7 drag coefficient, in this case we're looking at Mach 2.5 where it's .270, so i7 is .263/.270 = .974. Note this is the i7 specifically at 2790 fps. The average i7 from 3000 to 1500 fps can be found by dividing the bullets sectional density by it's G7 BC: .279/.283=.986. So the form factor is pretty constant.

Getting back to the verification above:

a=1/2*.002375*2790^2*pi*.270*.974*.308^2*32.2/(4*144*185/7000)

a=1532 fps/s.

This is pretty close to the 1535 fps/s we found above. Maybe some round off error somewhere.

So that's the math. Pretty straightforward. And BTW, once you've solved for acceleration, everything else (drop, wind deflection, etc) is a given.

So why does the 90 grain appear to not actually match performance of the .30 cal 185 in actual match conditions? As I stated in an earlier post, I suspect that stability of the 90 grain bullet is challenged more at low supersonic speed due to it's greater length (lower Ix/Iy ratio), in other words it's more 'tipsy'. So at long range it flies with more yaw and induces more drag. So it's not always flying with it's full potential BC.

Why wouldn't everyone agree on this? Well, shooting at higher altitudes would allow the bullet to reach 1000 yards in better shape (higher stability, less induced drag). So if you're a 1000 yard shooter at 5000 ft altitude, you may not see as big of a performance difference between the 90 grainers vs. .30 cal 185's.

Another reason (and this speaks to the fliers) is that you're spinning a proportionally longer bullet much faster, so dispersion will be exacerbated more. The 90 grain bullet is more likely to have substantial jacket run out due to it's long length, and therefore more imbalance. Spin that puppy in a 1:7" vs. the 185 which is likely better balanced and spinning out of a 1:10", and it's easy to explain the fliers.

Shooters like to draw contrasts between 'theoretical/paper' analysis vs. 'real world' results. The gap can be big if your theoretical analysis is basic, but the more you learn, the more that gap closes.

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Interesting.

I also expect smaller diameter bullets to be not quite as well balanced as larger diameter bullets. I found this to be a general tendency when fooling with a Juenke Concentricity Compatator tool years ago, and it makes sense, as a .0001 variation in diameter (or jacket thickness) is comparatively more in a smaller caliber bullet than a larger caliber.


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Then please explain why the 6mm and 6.5 mm bullet shoots like a lazer compared to the 308 which shoots like a mortar with almost twice the wind drift. Rio7

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Are you serious?

The 6mm's and 6.5's have much better BC's. Combine that with at least as much muzzle velocity as the .308, and often more, and there's less wind-drift--which is a larger factor than 100-yard groups as the range increases.

All I pointed out is that it's easier to build better-balanced bullets in larger calibers than smaller calibers. When diameter gets down to .224 it's tougher than with 6mm and 6.5mm.


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Originally Posted by slm9s
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
You don’t need a bigger gun, you just need to keep practicing at a mile. The further you go, the more critical your wind reading skills become.

My .243AI/105AM has outshot a .338LapuaAI/300Scenar at a mile, due to shootability, familiarity with the load and DOPE, and the ability to easily spot shots through the scope due to much less concussive blast at the shot.


I could be wrong, but didn't you say "the ability to easily spot shots through the scope" when discussing shooting your .243AI/105AM at a mile?

Well yeah, in that particular instance. That phrase you quoted wasn't meant as a general statement for small bullets at a mile in any possible terrain. In the case I mentioned, and in that particular terrain, the splash from both bullets was easy to see. But the reduced recoil and blast made it physically easier to stay on the scope after the shot, and consequently spot the miss/hit with the .243AI. But more importantly, the increased blast from the .338LAI had a greater cumulative effect on the shooter's ability to place the bullet with precision than did the .243AI. I also had better DOPE for the .243AI than my friend did for his .338LapuaAI, due to round count and volume of shooting with the .243AI vs .338LAI.

Maybe this'll help clarify what I'm referring to. The 5 small splashes are from the .243AI. The 3 large ones are from the .338LAI.

[Linked Image]


Again, I'm not saying that the .243AI is a better 1-mile rifle than the .338LAI. I'm simply saying that there are more important factors to focus on for someone new to extended-range shooting, like learning to read and call the wind at that distance, than the size of the rifle/bullet. A 6.5 147 ELD at 3100fps is ballistically plenty competitive, and the 7WSM/180 ELD matches (or beats) the drift and drop numbers of the .338 Lapua with 300gr VLD or 285 ELD to at least a mile. The OP has a decent rifle for what he's doing. He just needs to do a bunch of shooting at his 1-mile plate to learn his DOPE and to read the wind at his locale.

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Fhuqking Texans crack me up...especially when doing their BEST.................(grin)


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Originally Posted by Big Stick
Fhuqking Texans crack me up...especially when doing their BEST.................(grin)



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Ya those Texans. LOL. Can’t make this up.

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Originally Posted by Big Stick
Fhuqking Texans crack me up...especially when doing their BEST.................(grin)

Don't be a dik . . .


PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!


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This thread reminds me of 30 years ago. grin

Miss America from G&A fame.

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Carry on.


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Them that cain't...simply MUST Whine and/or Plagiarize. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Pardon Facts,upsetting you gals so and unleashing Wanton Man Lust Crushes,while surging your Estrogen Levels.

Hint.................


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Mule Deer, Please let me explain myself, I know very little about shooting long range, but I have a great time trying, and I have fired about 2000 rnds of 308 175 gr. . at 1000 yrds under all kinds of conditions, and about twice as much 6mm 107 smk at the same distance for me the 6mm 107 gr will run away and hide from a 308 175 gr. in every way I can think of.

I never have tried to shoot over 500 yards with a .223, and I don't know what a 224 looks like, please remember I'm doing this for the fun and to learn something, it's not life or death to me. Rio7

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Fhuqking Texans crack me up...especially when doing their BEST.................(grin)


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Laughing with you😉

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Slow day with the Mail.

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At least Imagination and Pretend are free,so Window Lickers can "afford" to "contribute",ala Plagiarism. Hint.

LAUGHING!............


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I also expect smaller diameter bullets to be not quite as well balanced as larger diameter bullets. I found this to be a general tendency when fooling with a Juenke Concentricity Compatator tool years ago, and it makes sense, as a .0001 variation in diameter (or jacket thickness) is comparatively more in a smaller caliber bullet than a larger caliber.
One of the reasons Ol' Elmer gave for favoring larger bores way back when. Some things are slow to change, eh?


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Originally Posted by RIO7


I never have tried to shoot over 500 yards with a .223, and I don't know what a 224 looks like, please remember I'm doing this for the fun and to learn something, it's not life or death to me. Rio7



.224 is the standard bullet size that "22" caliber centerfire rifles shoot. 223, 222, 22-250, 220 swift, etc all shoot .224 caliber bullets.

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Now you know for sure I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Rio7

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RIO7,have you tried shooting a mile with that .300 Wby you have?


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I also expect smaller diameter bullets to be not quite as well balanced as larger diameter bullets. I found this to be a general tendency when fooling with a Juenke Concentricity Compatator tool years ago, and it makes sense, as a .0001 variation in diameter (or jacket thickness) is comparatively more in a smaller caliber bullet than a larger caliber.
One of the reasons Ol' Elmer gave for favoring larger bores way back when. Some things are slow to change, eh?



Trybone,

Myths and Wives Tales die lingering deaths,simply because Joe Average ain't very fhuqking bright...as you obliviously attest. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

Hint.

Laughing!...........


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by Big Stick
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I also expect smaller diameter bullets to be not quite as well balanced as larger diameter bullets. I found this to be a general tendency when fooling with a Juenke Concentricity Compatator tool years ago, and it makes sense, as a .0001 variation in diameter (or jacket thickness) is comparatively more in a smaller caliber bullet than a larger caliber.
One of the reasons Ol' Elmer gave for favoring larger bores way back when. Some things are slow to change, eh?
Trybone,

Myths and Wives Tales die lingering deaths,simply because Joe Average ain't very fhuqking bright...as you obliviously attest. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

Hint.

Laughing!...........
You dumb fuq, like you know more than Bryan Litz! laugh laugh laugh


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Trybone,

PLEASE find me "mistaken" as you yet again extoll that you are a CLUELESS Fhuqk and a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,who "forgot" about her Imaginary Pretend Ignore,yet again. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart for trying so hard.

Hint.

LAUGHING!.............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Whatcha stealing today Stinky?


I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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6mm,

Your VERY Tender Feelers are a fhuqking hoot,you poor poor(literally) Brokedick Whining Clueless Fhuqk. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Fortunately,Imagination and Pretend are free,so you can "afford" to "contribute"...you "lucky" kchunt.

Hint.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by Big Stick
Trybone,

PLEASE find me "mistaken" as you yet again extoll that you are a CLUELESS Fhuqk and a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,who "forgot" about her Imaginary Pretend Ignore,yet again. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart for trying so hard.

Hint.

LAUGHING!.............
Tell us all how many long range matches of any discipline you've won. And how many out of those you won with .224" or .243" bores.

You're a fuggin' rock shooter. That's all you do is plink at rocks from a bipod.


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Trybone,

Your heartfelt and very WELL founded Insecurities are a fhuqking riot! Hint. Congratulations?!?

Very GOOD call,to refrain ALL things The Rifle. Hint.

Bless your heart for trying though.

Hint.

Laughing!...............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Come on , Larry, let's see some medal.


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Stinky, maybe you should hitchhike into town and steal some newer skivvies. Just remember Yellow in da front and bloody brown in back. There ya go little buddy. Midgets ride for half fare on fridays on the Muktuk express.


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7,8,9,10,12 and 14" RPM Metal.

[Linked Image]

I rather enjoy the high pitched nasal sound,of your Heartfelt Whine...you Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart,for doing your best.

Hint.

LAUGHING!.............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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All with butt pirate stickers.
And you're still a loser.


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Trybone,

It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Don't beat yourself up too badly,that you couldn't even afford the stickers,as you "justify" what you "do" for a "living" to yourself. Hint.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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I thought you were rich enough to fly down to Florida and show people how to shoot.

Guess not. Either that or you're afraid you won't measure up to the competition, little dwarf.


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Trybone,

Ain't it a hoot,that your pay stubs are commensurate with your IQ,you "lucky" Brokedick Kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

LAUGHING!............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by Tyrone
I thought you were rich enough to fly down to Florida and show people how to shoot.

Guess not. Either that or you're afraid you won't measure up to the competition, little dwarf.



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Florida ain’t ready yet

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Fredrica,

Your Wanton Man Lust is as hilarious,as your Brokedick ways. Hint. Congratulations?!?

At least you can "afford" to plagiarize...you "lucky" kchunt.

Bless your heart.

LAUGHING!.................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Keep it in your pants fatty. Poor sugar tits.

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Fredrica,

How many times a day,do you fixate me?

Hint.

LAUGHING!...................


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[Linked Image]

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Poor poor(literally) Fredrica...she's gotta "live" vicariously.

Bless her heart.

Laughing!......


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[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]

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Oooopsie!.............

[Linked Image]


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Found this one in the barn earlier. Resilient [bleep], broke/chewed through the snare but it pulled do tight it damn near cut him in half. He wasn't stiff yet so he must've just crawled in and died when I found him.
They're hell on our turkey and deer population but gotta have respect for an animal that tough. Too bad the average human being didn't possess the same qualitys.
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Originally Posted by Big Stick
7,8,9,10,12 and 14" RPM Metal.

[Linked Image]

I rather enjoy the high pitched nasal sound,of your Heartfelt Whine...you Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart,for doing your best.

Hint.

LAUGHING!.............


That hinged barrel is quite interesting. Angle shots?


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I did a double take on that myself!



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[Linked Image]

Yesterday after the wind died down to about 5 mph, fired 10 rnds hit with four, need a better shooting set up my old table and chair are to wobbley to shoot a mile, wish you fella's would quit fuss'in. Rio7

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Is that the pig you take to Armijio Springs?


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Good Morning Ken, No this pig is about twice the size of the pig I bring to N,M, I had it at 1000 yrds Mark for the last couple of years, thoght I would try it at 1- mile, it's fun to shoot at but hard for me to hit. Rio7

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Thanks Blue.

Shooting 1 mile,anything is hard to hit. wink


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Originally Posted by RIO7
[Linked Image]

Yesterday after the wind died down to about 5 mph, fired 10 rnds hit with four, need a better shooting set up my old table and chair are to wobbley to shoot a mile, wish you fella's would quit fuss'in. Rio7


Nice!

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I had some fun shooting at a mile with my 6.5-06 shooting 140 eld's in the mountains out here in colorado. Definitely more misses than hits. We were shooting a 19x19 inch steel plate, with grassy backstop on the mountainside. On occasion you could see dust splash in the grass, but the wind coming up the valley we were shooting across made it very tricky as short of mirage we had nothing to see wind changes. It is possible, i feel if I had consistent dust signatures we would have had a lot more hits. Still hit the plate 13 times with 50 shots or so. Fun stuff flinging lead a mile out


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