Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Lee Collet Die Instructions

Why would you want a body die along with a collet die?
The whole point of the collet die is to “not work the body” and avoid excessive case stretch. The not having to lube anything is a side benefit.
I shoot max loads and have never had any issue with tight cases going in when I use the Lee collet die.
The die is made for ammo fired in a specific rifle and re-sizing only the neck for that specific rifle chamber.

Just asking......

Mainly because some people handload ammo for more than one rifle in the same chambering. Sometimes the chambers will be close enough in dimensions to handle neck-sized brass, but more often not. As an example, my wife and I own several rifles in .223 Remington. All shoot the same basic load well, but for the "same" load to work in all the rifles the cases need to be FL sized.

Plus, even if the same cases are always fired in the same rifle, after a few firings they often need FL sizing to chamber easily.

While all that is true about the collet die, if you use one, you’ll find out that the case will get hard to chamber eventually. When that happens, setting the shoulder back a bit restores easy chambering. Just a fact of life with that type die.

DF

I guess I only thought I was loading over max..... compared to you guys....
I have Lee Collet Dies for most all of my chambering and use them all the time. But, I have yet the need to bump the shoulder back on any of them....... just saying.....
With 2 exceptions; 270 WSM and 300 WSM. For those, I have to F-L resize those every time.

Like JB wrote, good tight chambers, rifle specific cases, you may not need to bump shoulders. And that may depend on application. With target guns, slightly harder chambering may be OK. When hunting, I want easy to chamber rounds, am more likely to bump shoulders on hunting ammo.

I've had guns that would go on and on with just neck sizing, others that need the shoulder bumped after 3-4 firings. And, some of those are custom barrels, carefully done chambers, too. And good brass seems to be a factor.

I would say, in general, if you're neck sizing you will probably need a body die, eventually.

DF

Respectfully,
I get that Dirtfarmer, and I fully know that, but what I don’t get, is that a Full Length resizing die does all what you both have stated.
I have “partial-length” resized for years with a Full Length resizing die as there was no collet die available then. And back in those days, I couldn’t afford a real neck sizing die.
I learned from older reloaders, one a bench rest shooter, that “partial-length resizing” can give you a bumped back shoulder and a “partially” re-sized neck. But as I also found out, it depended a lot on the actual internal dimensions of the dies I had purchased, which seemed to vary.
Contrary to what so many believe, a case neck really only needs to be re-sized 1/2 of the bullet diameter, and still hold what ever accuaracy the rifle will allow.
Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts and have enjoyed reading these post.

^^^^^^^
You are missing the point a bit.
Yes, partial resizing is a good technique. But you don't have the benefits of two advantages of a collect neck sizer:
A conventional resizer first makes the neck too small then pulls an expander through it. This works the brass a lot. A collect neck sizer squeezes the neck onto a rod. This works the brass a lot less.
Pulling an expander through a neck often makes it crooked. Collect neck sizers often make straighter ammunition.
Most find that after some number of loadings with a collect neck sizer, they still need to bump the shoulder. Even if you only partially resize on these occasions, you work the neck in ways you would prefer not to do.
A body die allows you to set the shoulder back when needed without touching the neck. You can often make a body die from a FL sizing die.

I gotcha.
Thanks

So if I'm starting from scratch, I'd want to buy a Lee Collet Die, a body die (does Lee make these?), and the seater of my choice?

That is the biggest problem. It overworks the brass and then the expander ball becomes the patsy for runout because of the extra work it has to do. This often occurs even when the expander ball assembly is perfectly straight.

A particular cartridge I have a lot of experience with is the 308 Winchester. Neck wall thickness varies quite a bit for the 308. WW brass has typically been .012" thick. Double that plus .308" and you get a loaded neck OD of .332". So the neck needs to be sized down to .330" or so, and most off the shelf FL sizers go smaller than that. I have a Redding FL sizer that does .328". Its expander assembly is straight, and with the slick carbide expander ball installed it sizes WW brass pretty straight and the necks come out .330".

Now let's load that Lapua brass. Necks on it have typically been .015" thick. Twice that plus .308" is .338", so the necks ought to be sized to .336". But the Redding die squeezes them down to .328", and then the expander ball needs to open them up .008". So the brass got cold worked an extra .016", that is, .008" down too much and then .008" back up. On top of that the runout isn't so good and so the groups on target suffer. The handloader who doesn't understand the mechanics of the situation might say that fancy Lapua brass is a ripoff.

Sure, give mathman all the credit, but who’s question was he responding to?

In other words, who gave him the opportunity to provide the information? Yet this person gets zero credit.

It’s a cruel world.





P

Redding makes body dies.

Lee doesn't make one, but it's easy to "make" one from their FL die. For sure that's the cheapest way and I'm generally pretty cheap... Although I do have some Redding body dies.

The Forster seating die is one of the best, IMO. Others make a similar die, i.e. Hornady, but the Forster is about the best, for sure the best value.

It's probably cheaper to get the Lee Deluxe set with four dies. Make a body die out of their FL die. Their seater will do for now. The factory crimp die is handy in some applications. Get a Sinclair gauge to check concentricity and a TruAngle tool to correct run out. Those aren't too expensive and you'll use them with all your rifle rounds.

If the Lee seater isn't working that well, consider the Forster seater. If it's doing OK, you're good to go.

This is about the most buzz for the buck. Expensive target, bushing dies work OK, but cost a bunch more and I don't think they'll make better ammo than the above scenario.

I'm just a practical hunter, shooter, not a LR target guy. Those guys will have their own set up.

DF

And remember you may have a body die on the shelf already, even if it isn't labeled as such.

For example, my 7mm08 FL sizer makes a dandy body die for 260 Rem and 243 Win.

I'm assuming you're talking about the basic Forster seating die, not the micrometer version?

A cruel world for sure.

But, Mathman's excellent post is for us all, Loonies universal...

The original question well may be lost in the compost pile of history...

Good stuff...

DF

Yep

I don't have much use for micrometer dies. They way above my pay grade...

DF

Thanks. Good info in this thread.

I have one micrometer seater I’ve had for 40 yrs. It’s a .222 RCBS competition seater with sliding bullet guide and side feed for bullets. It has a special shell holder and is pretty neat. I don’t use it that much. It will also work for .223 and .22-204.

Most of the time, I’m loading batches of ammo for hogs and such, the std seater is adequate.

DF

Exactly, especially if you already have those dies.

And if not, there’s always the Dremel treatment. Cheaper than buying another die.

DF

18 years ago I broke a Rock Chucker press casting with an 8x57 Lee collet neck die.
I adjusted it for 100 pounds of handle knob forcer as it went over top dead center [would be infinite force if not for friction].
RCBS sent me a whole new press, not just the part.

Now I adjust the Lee Collet Neck Die per the instructions.