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#13647337 - 03/11/19 71 Winchester Configuration  
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misplacedinnebraska Offline
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I finally purchased a 71 over the weekend. It’s a first year production standard. It’s fitted with a bolt beep and the standard rear sight which seems strange to me. There is a commensurate amount of wear around the elevator as in other places on the rifle so I would assume it’s been there for a bit. Has anyone seen another with both sights? Was this a thing?

300 BP

#13647470 - 03/11/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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gnoahhh Online content
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Not an uncommon practice way back when. The peep was employed as a light focuser to enable a crisper sight picture with the open sights. It works for that but slows target acquisition to my way of thinking. Why not just use the peep sight alone, and be done with it? I suppose it was done by guys who just couldn't wrap their brains around how an aperture rear sight works.

The same system is found on some upscale European rifles from a couple generations ago- spring loaded flip up "lollipops" in the tang, with a peep hole for the aforementioned light focusing. People often think they're peep sights but they're not.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#13647487 - 03/11/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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misplacedinnebraska Offline
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[spoiler][/spoiler]I agree with you. When you shoulder it and sight down the barrel the 22k sight blocks half of the available light making it somewhat difficult to see through. I would have chosen one or the other.

#13647550 - 03/11/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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99guy Offline
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I wonder how many of them actually got used that way? Was the peep sight added and the owner just never knocked the back sight out because he didn't use it? Did somebody add the peep sight to increase the value of the gun?

Because it makes absolutely no sense to have both sights on the gun. Too many computations for your brain to make and still be consistently accurate. Think of throwing a ball from center field to home plate. Easy enough. You acquire the target and your brain calculates to release point and the arm speed to make the throw. Now what if you put a 25' wall between you and home plate? The throw becomes exponentially more difficult.


Think of how easy it is to shoot with a scope. Your eye and your brain are focusing on one thing. The crosshairs. The idea of a peep sight is that your eye instantly and instinctively centers the front sight on the target so your brain is focusing on one thing. The front sight picture.


"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
~Admiral Yamamoto~

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
#13648089 - 03/11/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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GunDoc7 Offline
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^^^^^
All true. But I too have heard that back in the day, some tried to use both rear sights. As gnoahhh said, apparently some just didn't understand how a rear aperture sight works. I guess they thought if it was easy, it couldn't accurate. Same deal with a large aperture, "Naw, that just caiin't work!" I often use a small aperture, but my only reason is to help my older eyes to focus.

Alpha

#13648131 - 03/12/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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jsgwoodsman Offline
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I own a couple 71s with both a receiver mounted peep and rear mounter barrel sight.
Early 98A bolt peep sighted rifles tend to have the Winchester 22k rear sight when seen.
Later rifles that wore the Lyman 56W side mounted receiver sight occasionally are seen with the Lyman 6 fold down rear barrel sight which is a bit more sensible. A bit more sensible because the leaf could simply be flipped down and out of the line of sight of the peep... but then again it would seem more effective to do away with the rear barrel sight all together.
Many of the examples I've seen appear to be completely original and it is believed that these were factory configurations.
I tend to agree with the statements about people of that time period ordering both sights as an option out of lack of understanding and experience with a peep sight.

#13653123 - 03/13/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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Poconojack Online content
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While it is very likely that some individuals set up the sights on their M71’s for the reasons identified by Gnoahhh, my understanding is that it is not a factory configuration as when Winchester installed a 98A Bolt Peep sight on a M71 a dovetail slot filler was also installed on the barrel.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
#13653289 - 03/13/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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bigolddave Offline
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The bolt peep would not have been added later, unless the bolt was replaced.

#13653387 - 03/13/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: bigolddave]  
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The West Mountain


^^This^^
Installation of the 98A bolt peep required the bolt to be specially milled, drilled and tapped and it is very unlikely to be done out of the factory. If there is one on the gun it’s almost certainly original.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
#13654076 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: Poconojack]  
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cisco1 Offline
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The Wrong Side of the Tracks


You gotta have the rear sight for night.

Bravo

#13654878 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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GunDoc7 Offline
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^^^^^
I don't understand. Are you saying that in low light you believe an open rear sight on the barrel is better than an aperture sight with a large opening?

#13655293 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: GunDoc7]  
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Loggah Online content
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The "3" 71 deluxe rifles i have with the bolt peep all have a filler in the rear sight dovetail. They show no evidence of ever having a rear sight in them ,no elevator marks on any barrels,not a mark. on them. Don

#13655368 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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gnoahhh Online content
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Well heck, Don. How about when I come up we beat some sights into those slots. Claw hammer, no copper drift, and preferrably after a snort of Sailor Jerry's.

I've sold rifles that wore receiver sights which I stuck their original barrel sights back into their slots for posterity sake. (No claw hammers were employed.)


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#13655542 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: gnoahhh]  
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Loggah Online content
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Gary, Bring the sights with you!!!!! i dont have any extra ones ! grin grin

#13656033 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: Loggah]  
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99guy Offline
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Originally Posted by Loggah
The "3" 71 deluxe rifles i have Don


I think Don has 3 of everything that all of us want 1 of, but can't find. grin


"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
~Admiral Yamamoto~

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
#13656488 - 03/14/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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450Fuller Offline
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Winchester would add Deluxe features to the standard Model 71, depending on parts availability. Of the 9 or 10 Pre war long tang rifles owned, a few standard rifles has sling swivel caps and
98A bolt peep sights. Most Deluxe M-71s had 98A sights with the rear filler slot filled with a drift plug. The 98A bolt peep is pretty much the only rear
sight usable in that configuration. It is hard to remove.
The Lyman 56 style receiver peep is perfect for bear or moose hunting in bear country with the 348 or 450 Ackley.
The ocular portion will slide out. I have at least two M-71 wildcats with this feature. The 348 Ackley M-71 with a Lyman 56 equipped- also
with a Marbles fold-down rear sporting sight is the way to go. (Very tough Alaska-Canadian rifle) If the peep sight acts up or is broken in rough country like Alaska-slide out the ocular peep.
Flip up the Marbles 95 sight, and the rifle is ready to go. Makes perfect sense if the gunsmith is back in Fairbanks and Mr. Grizzly is standing over your
moose or gut pile . The older hunters like Keith saw two sights mounted so that you saw the rear sight-not a fold down-they just shook their heads.It won't work unless its a Marbles 95 version.

#13657233 - 03/15/19 Re: 71 Winchester Configuration [Re: misplacedinnebraska]  
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The West Mountain

It’s my understanding, “that in the early years the 98A bolt peep was considered to be the standard sight on all M71’s and it remained very common on all M71 variations until 1948 when it began to be replaced with the Lyman 56 receiver sight”.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

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