Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles My brother ordered his first AR, looking for reloading resources

I don't believe you can get there running sane pressures.

2900 is getting pretty fast in a 20". I usually aim for about 2850, tops. The highest velocity I've clocked in my guns is 2945fps from a Nosler 70RDF & 24gr of H4895. I can't tell you if that will work with a 69. I have no idea if it's a one & done load either. The primers didn't dump, but the pockets may be loose. I don't know, haven't tried loading them again.

H4895 has a good rep for making FPS, but so does TAC and a couple others.

Might be me, cause I'm an unwashed heathen, but you're getting sub 1" groups at 100 yards and 2700+ FPS out of a new rifle with a rookie shooter, what again is he griping about?

How far away is he going to shoot targets that the mythical extra 200 FPS will come into play?

IMHO, you're there.

Otherwise, 69gr Sierra Tipped Match King, 24.5grs of Benchmark, Rem 7 1/2 primers, 2.255 OAL. PMC brass or whatever commercial.

You should get 2825fps from a 16 inch.

2900 is a pipe dream, and even if you can get there with a 69 grain bullet in a 223/5.56, I doubt you'll have a group, it'll be more like a gathering.

That’s the problem, he’s no rookie, just new to the platform. He’s spoiled by my handloads in his bolt rifle, a Tikka Varmint with the longer heavier barrel. I get sub half-inch groups at 3400 FPS, 50 grain NBT. We went sage rat shooting last weekend, he made a first-shot kill on a rat (about the size of a skinny dollar bill) at 655 yards.

He needs to change his mindset.


P

Don’t let him shoot green tip ball ammo... that only comes from lake city with a 2-3 moa guarantee lol and it’s not very fast out of 14.5 inch m4 carbide either.

1 5 shot group and its a "sub moa" rifle. I agree with antelope sniper. The 1 5 shoot group shows great potential. Id still like to see how it really fares in the black rifle challenge here. Thats where we will see if its truly sub moa or not. Im also surprised no one is suggesting AR comp powder. Thats where id begin and probably end.

AR comp isn't going to give top velocities. It may, however, give the lowest ES and smallest groups.

You are right. The beauty in ar comp is it meters a lot better than varget, and you'll generally use less powder. Win win in loading for and shooting an ar.

I agree. Shooting ten shot groups has really changed my mind relative to a rifle's potential accuracy.


How's AR Comp compare with CFE 223 as a general purpose 223/5.56 powder?

David, everything else being equal, always favor stick powder over ball. Usually cleaner, less temp sensitive and, with bare muzzles, less recoil. The only advantage ball powder has is for use in progressive presses turning out sheetloads of blammo.

ETA: Oh, and ball powder is usually cheaper.

Pharm, that is a pretty bad azzed RRA. I'm sure it will be shooting very good in no time. Probably do quite well in the black rifle challenge, as soon as you get the right load developed for the girl. One of my buddies has the RRA ATH Carbine and it shoots well, but not quite as well as any of my rifles. Your brothers rifle is a better rifle for accuracy IMHO. If you decide to try AR comp powder, here's my recipe. I think Tyrone was asking about it in another thread:

20.5 gr AR Comp
73 gr. ELD match
FC range pick up brass (lc works about as well)
BR4 (or CCI 400 if you dont' have BR4's)
2.255" OAL

This load develops very low ES's and excellent accuracy in all of my .223's (Ar's and bolt guns). I watched my buddy shoot his new Savage Trophy predator hunter, using this load, the other day and damn near put them all in the orange dot except for 1 flyer. 9 shots were into 5/8". The flyer opened the group up to an inch. I was so damn impressed with my buddy Troy's shooting that day, that I told him I was going to post his target in the Moa all day long challenge, if he kept the other 10 shot group that small. Needless to say, his second 10 shot group fell apart.

What’s the velocity? He’s hung up on speed.

Lever is going to give you the most speed, if that's what he wants. Maybe CFE223 also.

Even then ball may not do better. From an old post:

I own an Lar 15, it is the first Are that I ever purchased, for accuracy try 25 gr Benchmark with the 52 gr Sierra hpbt match, I have shot groups under a quarter of an inch at 100 yds with this load and also shot a group that measured 1.7 inches at 400 yds.

Is your brother wanting this rifle for rats and chucks or for target? I originally loaded my M4 for varmints using 22-55gr BT's. I've now switched to 50gr VMAX's and man the pop is hugely different. Ooops nevermind I saw that you already have the VMAX's. If you haven't already check out the BC's on the 53gr VMAX.

Pharmseller I hope this helps you. I get 3180 fps with my 20" 1-9" HBAR using TAC and 50gr ZMAX, and I still have alittle more room to go up in my powder charge (2.250" COAL). The 53gr VMAX has a G1 BC of .290, I'm thinking I can drive that to 3200 fps. But lets say I only get 3150 fps using Benchmark. Compare that load, I use JBM, to your 50gr BT going 3400 fps. You could try the 53gr VMAX in the 16" barrel but I doubt you'll be able to match the trajectory of you NBT at 3400 fps. But the VMAX is more explosive so your brother might like the results. Hope this helps.

I wish I had my library unpack. I have a book I think it was call "The Art of The Black Rifle" or something like that. It was all about loading for the AR15.

My brother is looking for a higher bc bullet than most 53 grain and under bullets. I think I'll look at the 73 grain ELDM next.



P

70gr rdf has a BC of .410 and from what I read people are pretty happy with is and getting over 2800.. This Friday I'm going to the range to chrono my leverevolution load with 75gr Hornady and 77gr Sierras. Will let you all know what I get. I been tempted to buy some of those 77gr RDF bullets.