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Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by Judman
Bears are predators and need to be treated as such... only Alaskans think they’re really huntin somthing..... as they schlep them up off kelp beds....

Down here they’re treated like shiit that they are... some think they’re a trophy...



Way back when I lived in Centralia (1987-1989) we had a bear problem! Every Wednesday (trash pickup day) there were several bears that would come down the alley and knock the cans around to get the lids off them and make a heller of a mess. To add they would set the dogs off making a heller amount of noise which I usually paid attention to. So one Wednesday the dogs start raising hell and I look out the window to note a large black bear had both of my trash cans rolling around in the alley but the sticker was there were a couple of grade school kids walking down the alley like the bear was just an amusement. When they got withing 20 feet of him he noticed and squared off facing them and they started to back off getting ready to run (would probably have been fatal) when my 150 grain Speer Hotcor from my 30-30 went through the bears head. At any rate I called the cops and animal control carried off the dead bear. I went to court 4 times before any decisions on charges were made and finally the issue was dropped. At the time I was working for a subcontractor and our job was to control trees growing under Bonneville Power Adminstrations powerlines and saw many bears. The Ilwaco area had the most and biggest bears.

Charges? Should have gotten commendation protecting those children!



Shot a gun in city limits, shot a bear out of season, shot a bear without a license. The Game warden was cool but I still had to see a judge. The police were a different story. To add to the problem the kids were third graders and got just as scared from the shot as they were from the bear. Anyway it worked out.

Glad it worked out and logic prevailed.
From what you posted, seems like a clear DLP to me.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
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American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
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Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by Fireball2


Bears are special and deserve to be respected as such. Feeding them garbage and shooting them while they eat it degrades bears and hunters both.


Fireball I don’t know you and I don’t remember US talking here before.
I’m asking a serious question.

What makes Bears ‘special’ to you ?
What makes Bears diff from Elk, Moose, Deer, Antelope, etc.

I’m not a fan of True baiting. I’m not opposed to it where it’s legal.
I just don’t understand why Bears are any diff from other Wild animals.

Why are they special to you ?

Jerry


Jerry, thanks for the sincere question. Glad to answer that for you.

I do quite a bit of bear hunting and enjoy it more than even the beloved blacktail deer. I have a ton of respect for black bears as a predator. I've called them in using fawn in distress bleats, had them stalk my campsite after I go to bed, had one watch me as I set up a tent in his berry patch.

To answer your question as to how they're different, when was the last time a bull elk sat on his haunches at 20 yards and watched you set up your tent in his meadow? Or a deer? Or a caribou? Or a moose? Or a cougar? Or a coyote? Or a bobcat?

Rest assured, a bear uses a different thought process than other game and it includes considering whether or not you are on the menu! They weigh hundreds of pounds but can survive for months at a time flipping logs and rocks eating insects. Or they can stalk and kill a bull elk. This black bear was half done eating a 5 point bull when I tracked him to his kill.

[Linked Image]


As I was cow calling my way along trailing the bull, this bear was waiting for me and trying to decide if he should kill another elk even tho he was stuffed with elk meat from the first one.

Another year I had a pair of nice spring bears picked out in two high meadows about a mile apart. After a 1600 foot vertical climb and calling session, my buddy hit one of them poorly, and he took off downhill. When we trailed him John spotted him waiting for me at the opposite end of the log I was walking along, about 20' away. These chompers were looking to exact some revenge on the wrong guy! This was a real smart old bear that wasn't ready to cooperate with our hunting plans.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/5EkszG0.jpg?1[/img]

My wife wanted to see a bear so I took her to some honey holes. She got to see quite a few up close and personal (15 yards) from the ground lounging in mountain pools cooling off. Lots of hours spent watching bears behaving as they do in their natural environment (bait free environment) and you just realize they aren't like other game animals. They are super smart, able to plan and execute, and are not just brute animals responding to stimuli.

This ain't Walt Disney and no they aren't humans, but they certainly aren't deer. All the guys that criticize my opinion of bears just reveal their own ignorance. Seems to me bears can be a whole lot smarter (and certainly more thoughtful) than some people.

Of course, people like sitka deer et al are more concerned with jumping on any bandwagon that advances their agenda than thoughtfully considering that maybe just maybe, somebody might know something they had never fully considered, or have done things they haven't, or can view things differently but still be a perfectly legit person. To guys like that, all that they're proving is their own brand of stupidity and ignorance, which is spectacular when on full display btw.

To whoever the hell it was up there that said I'm the enemy, that retard has not ONE fucquing clue even though he's drowning in a pool full of them and is swinging two salmon nets to try to stay atop of them all.

Sometimes the campfire is nothing more than a flaming bag full of dogsheit. If people that have not ONE fucquing clue could shut their pie hole for half a damn second they might absorb a real gem here and there. Did you ever notice that the loudest azzholes do the very least amount of contributing anything of relevant to an outdoor forum? Never a photo of a gun, a hunt, a fishing trip, nothing at all. Just bitching and character assassination. Absolutely nothing outdoor related.

You guys go ahead say whatever gets you off about me but this spring I'll be hunting bears while you're still bitching about AOC or Pelosi or whoever is on your radar that day. Find yourself something constructive to do and pull your head out of your azz. And for gawds sake post a photo of yourself doing something without a couch sticking out of your [bleep].

Last edited by Fireball2; 03/30/19.

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Fireball

Thnx for your answers. Forgive me for not quoting and deleting your responses.

About the bear who sat on his haunches: I think you don’t have any idea of WHAT the bear was thinking.

Bear, Elk, Deer , Moose, Caribou et.al. are all wild animals. Many animals can be domesticated
or almost. It’s surprising how some animals respond to care/kindness.
However, wild animals are WILD and have turned on and killed their caretakers who actually
loved them.

Wild animals WILL respond to feeding whether in captivity or not. I have used
feeders for deer but NOT in sight of a deer stand.

I’m just not into baiting, but I’m not opposed to using bait where it’s legal. It’s
not my cup of tea.

AFAIC we have a diff opinion about bears. I don’t see or consider them “special” or diff
from other wild animals.

Good Luck in your hunting.

Jerry


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Originally Posted by jwall
Fireball

Thnx for your answers. Forgive me for not quoting and deleting your responses.

About the bear who sat on his haunches: I think you don’t have any idea of WHAT the bear was thinking.

Bear, Elk, Deer , Moose, Caribou et.al. are all wild animals. Many animals can be domesticated
or almost. It’s surprising how some animals respond to care/kindness.
However, wild animals are WILD and have turned on and killed their caretakers who actually
loved them.

Wild animals WILL respond to feeding whether in captivity or not. I have used
feeders for deer but NOT in sight of a deer stand.

I’m just not into baiting, but I’m not opposed to using bait where it’s legal. It’s
not my cup of tea.

AFAIC we have a diff opinion about bears. I don’t see or consider them “special” or diff
from other wild animals.

Good Luck in your hunting.

Jerry


No problem Jerry, good luck to you as well.


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Thnx for your civility.


Jerry


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Jerry, thanks for your sensible posts. I have a very similar opinion of bear hunting.

I have shot 3 bears in my life. The first was on a friend's farm in the 70's. He had a bear that was raiding his garden, and he wanted it shot. He didn't hunt. I did. I came over one evening after work and shot the bear for him (he had an agricultural tag for it). He kept the hide and skull.

I've spent a lot of time in bear country, mostly in Alberta, backpacking and fishing and hunting. I have had many "close encounters" with bears in the non-hunting world, but none that resulted in bloodshed--mine or theirs. I like bears. Like Fireball, I find them fascinating. The wilderness is just a bit more wild for having wild bears in it. I carried a firearm for protection against bears in some places where it was legal to do so, and on one occasion was very glad I did. But no bloodshed was required.

However, a few years ago I was taken by the notion to hunt bears. I'm not sure why or how this notion formed, but it did. There are no bears down here in Texas, but I knew first-hand that there are a lot of bears in Alberta, so I went back there, to the Peace River country. I engaged an outfitter and spent a week hunting bears over bait, and it was a fascinating and enjoyable time. I saw bears every night on stand, and even though the wildlife biologists said the population density in that area was really high, I only saw one bear not on the baits. And that wasn't for lack of looking. I was out in the woods and fields all day every day, I only saw one adult bear away from the baits, and that was a sow with 4 (yes, FOUR) cubs, and she was obviously a harassed mama and outside of her usual habits and haunts as she tried to take care of her brood. But on stand I saw a plethora of bears.

I eventually shot 2 bears. I "hunted" both, inasmuch as you can hunt bears over bait. Hunting over bait isn't spot-and-stalk, and as much as I like spot-and-stalk hunting, in some places and times it's simply not possible. Such was the case on my Alberta hunt. This hunt involved looking at game cameras at the various stands each day, selecting the stand(s) that offered the best chance at a good bear, then waiting on the selected bear to show up. I shot my first bear that week, a big black boar with a white chevron on his chest, late on the second night on that particular stand. I passed on at least a dozen lesser bears that came in to the same bait before he showed up. My second bear, a nice but smaller cinnamon boar, was taken in similar manner. In my 5 nights on stand, I saw more bears than I could have imagined. I found the observation of the bears delightful. I killed both of my bears humanely, with well-placed shots, and according to the laws of the place I hunted them. I kept most of the meat of the cinnamon, and left it with my brother in Alberta. We ate a bit of tenderloin before I left, and it was delicious. The big black was inedible, being quite old and full of worms. The hides and one skull came back to Texas with me.

I didn't think this was unethical hunting, or non-sporting, or any other such bad stuff. It seemed to me this was a lot like sitting on a stand over a corn-feeder for deer or hogs here in Texas, and nobody seems to have a problem with that... but when I reported my hunt here on the 24HCF, I got some hate mail from folks who think that hunting bears over bait "isn't the same" as hunting deer, or hogs, or leopards, or any other creature over bait. Somehow hunting bears over bait is different in the minds of these folks, and they don't have any problem saying pretty mean things to you about it. Hell, some folks have said some pretty damning things about hunters like me on this thread.

Does it make any logical sense? Not really. These folks can't give a real reason that hunting bears over bait is "different" from hunting other species over bait, but in their minds this is irrelevant. Sadly, this is an increasingly common attitude.

The hunting world is full of hunters who disparage other hunters because the other hunters "don't do it the right way". Which is too bad, because hunting is getting enough attacks from outside as it is. We hardly need to be attacking each other over perceived differences in how we take game.

I doubt I will ever take another bear over bait. I'm not opposed to it, it's just that if I hunt bear again it will be in a different place, and by a different method. I'd like to take a spring grizzly in the mountains by the spot-and-stalk method, in a place where that is practicable. But if the opportunity to take another bear over bait presents itself, I may well take the opportunity. Life is short, and hunting opportunities are rare and wonderful. It's best not to waste them.


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Well spoken Doc, Jerry and Fireball2 Roy I have taken 3 bears all over bait, my 1st bear hunt i Skas, CA I hunted 5 days and Never even saw a Bear, but had a great time ! Iv been black bear hunting 6 times, all in CA but for one week in Michigans U.P. didnt even see a bear! here where I live now I have bears in my yard at times, but you need 14 points thats 1 Point a year to get a tag. I have 6 points, just rembered I used my 7 points for a Tag In the U.P. again a week over bait and no bears seen! my old hunting buddie will have the 14 points this fall here and I plan to have 3 baits for him to hunt hes Never hunted bear and at 73 this will be his last chance for here! I have seen bears here in my woods, but very few , and mostly while bow hunting deer! So to each his own, at Least we are all Hunting!


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Doc - well written. Thank you.

I dearly love bear hunting. My bears have been via spot & stalk. Did have one come in to a predator call. That was intense.

Last September an unusual number of bears showed up while we were fly-fishing for silvers, and sadly, my good camera was broken so all I had was a cell phone or I think I'd have had some terrific photos of Alaskan brownies:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

On my way home from Alaska in 2017, I did get some decent photos of black bear:

[Linked Image]

Bears fascinate me. Truly enjoy watching them, hunting them.

Regards, Guy

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Thnx Doc & saddlering

A lot of the problems we face as hunters arise

FROM people ‘projecting’ human thot processes and human emotions to/on
wild animals.

Jerry


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Great pix Cascade !

Always enjoyable.


Jerry


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Originally Posted by jwall
Great pix Cascade !

Always enjoyable.


Jerry


Thanks, I just wish my good camera hadn't died an untimely death on that trip. Sigh. So many bears! Such great weather. Outstanding fishing. And me, stuck with just my cell phone to use. Phooey.

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Well written Doc !


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Originally Posted by jwall


I have used feeders for deer but NOT in sight of a deer stand.


Here's one reason I have used deer feeders:

[Linked Image]

This was 12/28/1999, On Christmas Day, 25, we had an ICE storm ! ! ! It was THICK & HEAVY. The timber co.s lost 1000s of acres of timber. Deer had a HARD time finding something to eat.

1 Week later - 1/1/200 We had a SNOW storm on top of the ICE ! ! For 2-3 weeks the Snow COVERED Ice stayed ON trees, bushes, & the ground.

[Linked Image]

It's been a while now so I don't remember exactly but we had somewhere between 1000 -2000 acres leased and our Club had
more than 80 members. Some were old and did not hunt but stayed as members.

I - ME - MYSELF - was the ONLY one who was putting food/corn out for the deer. How do I know, I was busting thru the snow/ice making truck tracks and there were NO other tracks being made.

We lost quite a few deer due to starvation ! !

I have/had S S commercial hog feeders that would hold 100 LBS. of corn. I could NOT keep corn in the feeders.

Feeding deer, bear, elk, etc. CAN be beneficial.


Jerry


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Here in Minnesota ,you can`t just buy a license in the good bear areas ,you do have to be lucky enough to draw a license. Minnesota has a lot of forest, wet swampy ,brush country areas very little open country where bears live so we have to bait our black bears. baiting bears is not that easy ,its alot of work hauling bait,bugs are bad and many times weather is wet too this time of year. Minnesota does have some big black bears but don`t think these bears are a push over you need to be sneaky and play the wind when you head to your tree stand.


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Excellent post DocRocket!

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Unlike most big game animals bears are predators, not prey. So they are programmed to do things that would be more or less lethal if they were prey and did the same things. Like hang out near humans and show curiosity, instead of getting out of dodge like a deer or elk would. I'm sure lots of people have seen coyotes do the same kinds of things, I know I have. I've had them follow me, I've had them bark at me when I pissed them off, and I've watched adults that were unrelated to pups stand guard over them while they played in the sun.

Yet I have no romantic notions on how or why others should hunt them, or a strong opinion on the "right" way to hunt them. When you remove emotion, that's what you're left with.



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[Linked Image]

In Montana, dogs and baiting are not legal. The challenge of spot and stalk on a old black bear, is as good as it gets.

Something I look forward to every spring.


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I hunt them because I can. It's a good time with friends and a good way to shake the cobwebs off after a long winter. Lots of people have never seen a bear let alone killed one. I'll never hunt them over bait or behind hounds, but I don't begrudge those who do. Just not my thing.

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cool - cool - cool



Jerry


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Three hunters. Two days. Three bears. Spot 'n stalk, Washington:

[Linked Image]

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