Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters John, will we ever see a commercial 6.5/06 loading?

High Noon,

Yes, 100 fps (or more) can make a definite difference at longer ranges, and I'm not talking about 500+ yards but "typical" hunting ranges. Have seen some flat-based spitzers expand minimally at ranges under 300, and not by "guessing" they didn't expand much by looking at entrance and exit holes, but by recovering bullets, often from animals that didn't die very quickly even when shot well through the chest.

The higher the retained velocity, the less likely this is to happen--and a higher-BC bullet will often catch up to or surpass a typical flat-based spitzer in velocity at 300 yards, even when started as much as 300 fps slower. When started only 100 fps slower, it will catch up far sooner, and after it catches up will retain even more velocity as range increase. Along with expanding more reliably, it will drift less in the wind.

Have seen this over and over again over the years, and not just at 300+ yards. Will be posting a column on this very subject next week, with far more details. If you want to discuss the subject more after that, then will be happy to accommodate you.

Mule Deer: Thank you for the reply. Your argument makes perfect sense. I look forward to reading your your post on the subject.

Certainly, a high BC bullet will improve the effectiveness of a given caliber, especially in the case of the 6.5X55 SE, which has moderate velocity + I think that the long bullets and rather deep penetration of the Swede, combined with the relatively high BC result in a cartridge that easily outperforms what the ballistics might otherwise lead one to believe - probably out to 300 yds.+. In my admittedly limited experience, I have found that Hornady's 6.5X55 SE Superformance, 140 GR SST with a .520 BC is quite accurate and effective.

Although I am a rank novice at reloading, my 140 gr Nosler Partitions over RL22 has not duplicated the accuracy of the Superformance. I do have some Berger VLDs and Laupa bullets to try, as well as a few different powders (H4350 & RL26). I have not had a chance to work on it much as of late, but perhaps I can find a recipe that comes close to the Superformance.

What I'm "fixin" to say should come as no surprise to most here.

I don't waste time determining what the minimum velocity (speed) needed is,


I want all I can get. I like 7 Mags & 300 Win Mags. I don't have to worry IF I HAVE ENOUGH !!

NOTE: other people's mileage DOES vary. That's Okay with me, MINE does too.


Jerry

ps: Read my sig line.

Another thing that goes along the lines of less wind drift, less wind drift makes higher B.C. bullets more accurate, by default. They also drop less, which is what John is describing, again both details increasing the accuracy window of the target in question, not just terminal effects.

Going to heavier, longer, higher B.C. bullets also (if the dies are set up correctly for the bullets) can produce lower runout numbers upon loading, again making smaller, more accurate groups.

Seems to me we need to pay extra attention to bullet design and velocity. A bullet that's great at 2,800 fps can be less impressive at 3,000 fps, a disaster at 3,200 fps.

IMO, we gotta match bullet design parameters with usage and speed for optimal terminal performance. There's about as much art as science in making an optimal match up. Loads that work great for target shooters may not be Kosher on game. I'm a hunter/shooter, not a target guy. But, I appreciate the work done by the target crowd on ballistics, etc. That info helps us all.

DF

DF,
That's why I like the idea of a Nosler Accubond(not LRAB!) for the faster 6.5s. Yes, they don't have quite the BC that some of the newer 6.5 projectiles, but they should hold up on big game animals after being started at 3200 plus?

The other side of that is why do they have to be started at 3200+?

Now, John.

Folks gonna start wondering about yo Loony credentials...

Faster is always better, or not...?

You're right, of course, lots of stuff killed with 2,800 fps rifles.

The 140 gr. NAB at 3,250 fps out of the 26 Nosler does a good job on WT's and hogs, holds up pretty well. About the same terminal performance with the 120 E-Tip/TTSX at 3,450 fps. Lots of tissue damage and DRT's, both.

DF

Leave it to them Gun Writers to have to look at the other side of the issue! Oh! I am in the Gunwriters forum, aren't I?

Yeah, and it's a pretty weird forum!

...and I fit in just fine!

Looks VERY similar to a M96 I had sporterized, to 21" - had an unusually nice piece of wood that I reshaped and finished. Handled and shot great. Another I had cut to 24 had more 'hang' but I MUCH preferred the handy 21, dropped a WT DRT with a neck shot and then Bushnell 6x40. I had a Timney in mine. Shot very well.

Can't beat having Lapua brass that is a good bit less expensive than man other rounds they mfg. and zero issues with COL....anything from 85-160 the OEM handles. You do have Norwegian heritage IIRC - or am I wrong? If so - that's a bit of icing for JB.

Not the only one...

DF

Seems to me it makes sense to take a 300 wsm case and neck it to 6.5 to get any serious beneift over the 6.5 crapmoor

I am surprised we haven't seen a 6.5 WSM, honestly.

If they could build it and make it fall between the 264 win mag and 26 Nosler as far as velocity....I'd be interested in one

I would also.
I have a desire for a faster 6.5 than my 6.5 Swedes, but haven't been able to decide what route is the best to go. A 6.5 WSM would be ideal for me, especially if you could get an honest 3100 out a 140gr bullet.

Sometimes, it does seem like the head of the pin gets crowded enough that the angels are knocking each other off.

I think a 6.5 WSM would be s great cartridge. A 270 WSM has little recoil.

Reloaders should know as much as they can about the bullets they wish to use.

This is not directed at you, DF. Every couple of years I post something about paying attention to the manufacturer's recommendations, and the message always needs repeating.

It seems that most posters here and other sites load up bullets, push them as fast as they can and later, some complain about failures in the field. I can't help thinking that the reloader was the defect, not the bullet, in many of the cases.

Reloading manuals, websites and even bullet boxes will have the information a reloader needs to properly assemble their cartridges. You can also email or phone their tech lines. One of the better companies for providing this information is Nosler.

Look at this picture.

At the bottom of the box lid you will see that Nosler clearly marked the "Optimum Performance Velocity". They are telling reloaders that for the bullet to function optimally, the impact velocity must be between 1800 and 3200 fps. Nosler says this because they tested it. When you reload this bullet, you should check your manual, your chronograph or a computer program to discover the muzzle distance at which the bullet is moving between the min and max velocity recommended by the maker. How far from the muzzle will the bullet cease to function properly? And something that few people realize: Lighter bullets do not have the reach of their heavier brothers.



But it's more than velocity and impact energy!

What about bullet construction? Is your bullet actually made for the animal you're hunting? For example, using Game Kings or varmint bullets to take whitetails. We've seen posts about using target or varmint bullets on deer quite a bit here. Using the wrong bullets isn't a good idea.

Is your rifle's barrel twist sufficient to handle that Barnes hunting bullet, shot from your 223?

The message is simple: Use the bullet according to the bullet manufacturer's recommendations.

---
Checking in with the manufacturers. It's a good idea!

I talked with Speer several times about how they rate their bullets. They use energy figures, and recommend 1000ft/lb of energy for deer, 1200 ft/lb for elk and 2000 ft/lb for moose. These align closely with the energy expended by bullets striking at Nosler's optimum performance velocity.

I had to email Barnes about their recommendations. They recommend minimum and maximum velocities for their bullets.

Hornady's method, using MV Range, is sketchy. Like any bullet, the farther it gets from the muzzle, the slower it goes and the less energy it will impart on arrival. If you rely on Hornady's recommendations, you might be disappointed. It seems that you must be good out to any distance, as long as you launch their bullets somewhere between their MV Range. They need to update their recommendations. I wrote them for clarification, but they did not answer. Perhaps they are going to do this. It's long overdue.

Ex: The Hornady 165 gr. SST has a MV Range of 2200 to 3400 fps. My question: If you launch that bullet at 2200 fps, a velocity within their range, when does the bullet become ineffective? IOW, when will it fail to expand on impact? Or doesn't it expand no matter what the distance?

Did I mention to take advantage of the manufacturer's tech lines or websites?!

---
Recommended reading: The Handbook of Metallic Cartridge Reloading Ed Matunas, 1980. Chapter 8 deals with bullets and what happens on game when your bullet strikes game outside of its design envelope.