Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 444 or 348

I would like to have both someday.

The 50-110 is more powerful than the 50Ak if you load it to its potential. There's not much published data to allow a proper comparison. You can get 2100-2200 fps from a 500gr pill out of a 50-110. The potential is certainly there if you want that sort of power. If the smith does the conversion properly you can feed bullets with quite wide meplats. When it comes to bullets there's not a lot of suitable jacketed designs, so you really need to cast your own pills. Then you're set. I picked up a couple of moulds from group buys on the Castboolits site.

Truth be told though, an 1886 clone in 45/70 fed the right bullets is a very versatile large calibre levergun cartridge.

348 is a better long range performer. But I use lever guns for shorter ranges so I like the 444

Marlin's 444 replaced the .348 as a powerful levergun for mid range big game hunting. A primary advantage is that this rifle is easily scoped due to side ejection. I for one would not consider a .348 rifle even if priced the same as a 444 because of the scope factor.

Sherwood

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I am a long time 348 WCF fan and I still hunt my grandfather's old Model 71. If you have a 45-70 (which I'm also a big fan of) is there any thing to be gained by going with a 444 Marlin? The 348 WCF common bullet range from 180 - 250 grains work on just about anything you care to hunt in NA and the 45-70 with 300 to 405 grain bullets will as well. Heck get a Winchester/Browning Model 71 in 348 WCF and find a nice Marlin "WaffleTop" in 30-30 WCF or 32 Win. Special to go with your 45-70 and you have your bases covered.

You can never have too many great lever guns.

StarchedCover

Never seen a .348, nor shot a .444. I do have several 45-70 Marlins and nothing wrong with them. If you want a hard hitter, try one of the Winchester/Browning 1895 rifles in .405 Win.

348 Winchester, because one of my 45-70's is a Shiloh Sharps and accurately heaves 530grs of paper patched lead to 500 yards, the other is an original '86 that fires 500gr grease groove bullets to 1240 fps with black powder and is good for around 125 yards max, 200 yard steel banging is cake with the 348 and bolt peep.

A 71 and a 95 in 30-06 are on my short list. I think I have 4 45/70's so im good for now, but you can never have too many lever guns or cool old cowboy guns.

How about the original 444? Winchester had the 40-65 and 40-82 over 130 years ago. .408 and 265 grains with a better sectional density, everything the 444 wants to be...

Always with the "THIS VS THAT"...nothing but a way to get a dust-up going or wax poetic about their favorite toy, or show a picture and say "lookee what I did"...sometimes it's even slightly interesting.

They BOTH have pro's and con's and they BOTH do good jobs...make a decision and go for it. Good grief you can kill any animal on the North American continent with a 22 LR given the right conditions and have a rabbit run off using some cannon if you mess up.

It isn't the rifle, the caliber or the case size that kills, it's bullet placement.

I'm not overly impressed with the case taper of the 348, I would do a Turnbull or Ackley version if someone would give me one, but that won't stop me from using a "standard" one because I know it will do it's job if I do mine. I have a lot of rifles and extra barrels but the .348 never interested me...I went for the .338 then .358 calibers on several standard and wildcat cases. THEY work just as well.

If you like the .348 and just HAVE to have one then go for it...it isn't magical just workable...and you'll be happy.

Same with the other large cals...they ALL have warts and some are even pretty.

Good Hunting

LOL, I have a year model '94 1886 Short Rifle in 40-65, it's a stoner with that bullet over a big charge of OE FFG Black.

I have a 71 Deluxe and a Frantz Sodia O&U both in 348 Win. The 71 is a deer killer and the Frantz Sodia has never had a deer in it's sights since I got it years ago. Just not a very lucky gun. If you want to shoot against it at the range, bring something that shoots good and has a scope on it or you might leave some dollars on the table. I also have a Marlin 444. I have shot through from point of shoulder to the back leg bone with it in a 200 plus pound deer and used the Hornady load. A heavier bullet might have made it out of the rear of the hip, Might not have. It was a quick kill and a long drag anyway and I am happy with that load. I think a lot of both rounds and use them in areas where I don't want to track a deer very far. Whether I pick ip a 348 or a 444 is based on whether I want to use a scope or not. It's that simple.

I've owned both, still have a .444 and probably will get another .348 in the future. The .348 used to be crippled by lack of brass, but now that Hornady makes it the situation isn't too bad.

The .348 is by far the more useful round for the hunter. The Browning M71s are better guns too. A rear peep sight is recommended.

How so? The 444 Marlin zeroed at 125-135 yards with any FP killer load in 225gr-335gr is easily a 200 yard cartridge on large game. I doubt the 348 Win, in reality, will handle big game any better at 200 yards. It’s not like the 348 Win shoots any flatter or hits any harder at 200 yards and it’s not like the 348 Win is readily or effectively used past 200 yards either. Only one man’s opinion and user of the 444 Marlin.

There's a pretty big difference between the two. The .348 is a couple hundred feet per second faster at the same bullet weight, and the sectional densities are much higher with the .348. While both have somewhat limited bullet options, the .348 has the 250gr Weldcore which is excellent on everything in NA, and for which there is no equivalent in the .444.

I have nothing against the .444 (and enjoy shooting them) but it's just not as capable. The Marlins are also not as nice a guns as the Browning M71s and even original Winchesters. The .444 does generally recoil less if that's a concern though.

The 444 Marlin shoots 250 grain loads at 2,500 fps (handload with my last batches of the old 250 HG Partition it is a real killer with pass through penetration on deer), Hornady 265 gr load at 2,350 fps, the 348 Win at around 2,375 fps with 250 gr loads, how's the 348 Win 200 fps faster. It can't keep up with the 444 Marlin when shooting heavy bullets at large game, CorBon 280 gr FP (2,250 fps great load I used on two elk) a 335 gr. GCHC (2,100). The Barnes 300 gr Buster at 2,150 fps is pure penetration in the 444 Marlin and I highly doubt the Weldcore would prove to be a better load than the Barnes on large game including big bears. I don't own a Marlin rifle, mine is a Win 94 Big Bore with 1-12 twist. Accurately shooting 355 gr and 405 gr Beartooth GCHC at 1,950 fps and 1,790 fps. That is something the 348 Win can not match. Again, both are at best 200 yard chambers. On big game I will choose the 444 Marlin any day for multi purpose 200 yard hunting. Sectional density is meaningless for the most part when shooting heavy FP bullets. And when using the Barnes mono Buster or Beartooth GCHC, both will out penetrate anything the 348 Win can throw due to weight. I don't know what you mean by "pretty big difference" or "capable", but when looking at Taylor KO, the 444 Marlin is well ahead of anything the 348 Win can produce.

The .348 has 10 grains H20 more case capacity with a seated bullet and the 1886/71 has a higher pressure limit than the Marlin or 94 Big Bore. The .348 win is simply the more powerful round, and it's not really close. That's physics.

Llama Bob - With all due respect what you are saying is not grounded in physics at all. First the 348 Win holds 75 gr/H2O, while the 444 Marlin holds 69 gr/H20, by all accounts that 6 gr/H20, not 10 gr/H20. Second, the 348 Winchester has never operated on an 1886/71 action above SAAMI specified MAP of 40,000 CUP (41,000 CIP) same as the 33 WCF. It is regarded that the 1886/71 action can handle somewhat above 50,000 CUP. Your premise that the 348 Win operates at a higher pressure on a more stout action is just not true. The 444 Marlin operates at a SAAMI MAP of 44,000 CUP (45,000 CIP) and the 94 BB action is rated at 52,000 CUP and there are several Marlin rifles chambered in the 444 Marlin so they can handle the pressure generated by the 444 as well. The 444 Marlin is loaded to higher pressure simply because it projects less area and therefore less bolt thrust with a 0.514" diameter rim., while the 348 Win creates more bolt thrust due to its larger area from a 0.610 diameter rim.

Lastly your rational for stipulation that the 348 Win is more powerful by virtue of holding more powder does not take into account any real physics such as bullet diameter, bullet weight, hence TKO/stopping ability. How can the 348 Win be more powerful when it lags behind the 444 Marlin by a full 10 points with top loads (a 30 TKO vs 40 TKO on the 444 Marlin). That's like comparing a 300 Wby 200 gr. at 3,000 fps and a 358 Norma Mag 250 gr at 2,850 fps, the Wby holds 99 gr/H2O while the 358 Norma holds 88 gr/H2O. Is the Wby more powerful, well...no it has a TKO of 26, the 358 Norma Mag is at 36 TKO. Frontal area and bullet weight have a lot to do with the power of a cartridge. If they didn't why bother using 400 gr 416s and 500 gr 458s on cape buff and elephant, why not just use a 300 or 338 Magnum, reason is they lack stopping power, therefore not as powerful. Again I'm not sure what you mean by more powerful as it translates into ballistic and success in the game field, maybe I'm missing something. I realize the 348 Win is romanticized greatly because of the Win 71 rifle and it is a great cartridge but in reality is no more powerful than the 356 Win or 358 Win. Again no disrespect, just questioning your rational on the comparison.

Had you bothered to actually read what I wrote rather than running straight to this blather, you wouldn't have missed a key part: "with the bullet seated". Only case capacity not occupied by the bullet is useful.

It's still physics, you're still wrong, and that's really all there is to it. It's OK if you want to be wrong of course - that's your problem. TKO is a made up number that has nothing to do with the power of a cartridge.

Sorry Bob you have the blather title with wrong nonfactual blather on pressure (both on actions and cartridges). Show me a 348 Win load and 444 Marlin load with 250 grain bullets whereby the 348 Win holds 10 more grains of powder charge. Facts please not bias.