Been looking at the 10mm cartridge in a Glock 20 for a bit. I've carried various 44 mag, 45 colt, and 357 in various revolvers for woods carry and hiking. I've also carried various 9mm with appropriate ammo.
I found with bigger bore handguns, the recoil precludes an accurate second shot at close range. Plus they weigh 50+ ounces.
I can hit follow up shots well with the 357 and 9mm handguns. I'm thinking a 10mm isnt too much for a quick follow up and still has enough power to work well on big brown inland growlies.
I'm most interested in 'shootability' and rock solid function. A pistol isnt much good if you cant hit with it or it jams.
What viable options exist to the Glock 20 for hiking/woods carry?
I like the idea but my hands don't fit the Glocks in 10mm. The 20's grip is too large for my stubby fingers, the 29's grip seems too short (top to bottom) to really get ahold of. A 1911 seems a better option .. for me. (My current 10mm isn't a semi-auto, it's a single action revolver .. a [bleep]-load of fun.) If you like .357 revolvers, have you considered a Ruger GP100 in 10mm ?
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Hard to beat the Glock 20 for a woods gun in the Lower 48 if you want a Semiautomatic. Love mine. Accurate & super reliable too. My second choice would be a 1911 in 10mm
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
I bought the Glock 21 to shoot inexpensive 45acp then bought a Storm Lake 6 inch 10mm barrel. Lot of ammo versatility here with the ability to shoot 45acp,10mm,40S&W.
A lot lighter than most big bore revolvers with a LOT more firepower.
The grip feels large and bulky to me and I prefer a Glock 19 or 26 size girth.The grip feels like holding a 2x4 to me ! BUT the Larger grip can be managed for sure.
I can,more often than not, put 3 shots of Underwood 10mm 180 Grain into 4-5 inches or so at 50 yards with a good rest,I suspect a better shooter could better show what the pistol is capable of.
how does the g20 sf grip frame compare to the gen 4 g20 grip frame? I shot a gen4 first of the week and the trigger guard rapped my middle finger just below the knuckle enough to make the gun unpleasant to shoot. I don't recall a gen2 or gen 3 20 having that issue. To the OP check out the springfield 10mm it has a more narrow girth than any glock, but I did not like it for some reason, guess it seems weird after too many years of perfection.
how does the g20 sf grip frame compare to the gen 4 g20 grip frame? I shot a gen4 first of the week and the trigger guard rapped my middle finger just below the knuckle enough to make the gun unpleasant to shoot. I don't recall a gen2 or gen 3 20 having that issue. To the OP check out the springfield 10mm it has a more narrow girth than any glock, but I did not like it for some reason, guess it seems weird after too many years of perfection.
If I'm not mistaken the Gen3 SF is the same as the Gen4 with no backstrap installed.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Have any idea if Cabelas or Sportsman down your way carry a good selection of semis?
Thanks.
Hey Bill,
Sorry, no idea on what they carry. I'm not sure the last time I've been to Chattavegas...there's a Bass Pro just across the road from the Cabelas as well.
how does the g20 sf grip frame compare to the gen 4 g20 grip frame? I shot a gen4 first of the week and the trigger guard rapped my middle finger just below the knuckle enough to make the gun unpleasant to shoot. I don't recall a gen2 or gen 3 20 having that issue. To the OP check out the springfield 10mm it has a more narrow girth than any glock, but I did not like it for some reason, guess it seems weird after too many years of perfection.
If I'm not mistaken the Gen3 SF is the same as the Gen4 with no backstrap installed.
I think this is correct. I had several of the earlier pre-SF models and this one is a bit slimmer.
I've got a Crimson Trace Laser Grip on mine so it does make it a little larger but doesn't bother me.
Dan Wesson Razorback 10mm was one of the best 1200 bucks shipped I've ever spent, it's more accurate than i'll ever hope to be, 100% reliable so far with 140gr Lehigh penetrators at near 1600 fps, 200gr Nosler and XTP's to 1200-1241 fps, it's a stoner! I imagine it would handle/shoot heavy hard cast 200/220gr bullets just fine too.
A pocket full of 10 round Tripp mags round out the package nicely.
I own both a Gen4 G20 and a Gen3 G20SF. Previous posters are right - the grips are the same size. Neither has ergonomics as wonderful as a 1911 but then nothing really does. I also own a Springfield XDm 10mm with the 5.25" barrel. Ergonomics are better than the Glocks but the trigger is really mushy with a lot of travel. 10mm is the cat's ass.
I would consider a 1911 with a 460 Rowland Clark conversion if I was concerned about "big brown inland growlies". A 230 grain flat nose hard cast lead bullet at 1200 fps is approaching 44 mag territory.
I own both a Gen4 G20 and a Gen3 G20SF. Previous posters are right - the grips are the same size. Neither has ergonomics as wonderful as a 1911 but then nothing really does. I also own a Springfield XDm 10mm with the 5.25" barrel. Ergonomics are better than the Glocks but the trigger is really mushy with a lot of travel. 10mm is the cat's ass.
Gen 4 Glock 20 with RMR. I had to get Trijicon supressor irons to co-witness the RMR, finding the dot is faster, at least for me.
The grip (even Gen 4) is sorta big, takes some getting used to. A range officer bud says to get the trigger in the first finger joint, don't use the finger pad like with a 1911. I have long fingers and have to rotate my hand somewhat to get that far into the trigger. I think he's right.
Glock holds more ammo than the 1911, not sure what that's worth...
I own both a Gen4 G20 and a Gen3 G20SF. Previous posters are right - the grips are the same size. Neither has ergonomics as wonderful as a 1911 but then nothing really does. I also own a Springfield XDm 10mm with the 5.25" barrel. Ergonomics are better than the Glocks but the trigger is really mushy with a lot of travel. 10mm is the cat's ass.
Gen 4 Glock 20 with RMR. I had to get Trijicon supressor irons to co-witness the RMR, finding the dot is faster, at least for me.
The grip (even Gen 4) is sorta big, takes some getting used to. A range officer bud says to get the trigger in the first finger joint, don't use the finger pad like with a 1911. I have long fingers and have to rotate my hand somewhat to get that far into the trigger. I think he's right.
Glock holds more ammo than the 1911, not sure what that's worth...
DF
Nice! Been thinking about a G40 myself though I'm not sure about the RMR idea?
Last edited by 340boy; 04/04/19.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
I own both a Gen4 G20 and a Gen3 G20SF. Previous posters are right - the grips are the same size. Neither has ergonomics as wonderful as a 1911 but then nothing really does. I also own a Springfield XDm 10mm with the 5.25" barrel. Ergonomics are better than the Glocks but the trigger is really mushy with a lot of travel. 10mm is the cat's ass.
Gen 4 Glock 20 with RMR. I had to get Trijicon supressor irons to co-witness the RMR, finding the dot is faster, at least for me.
The grip (even Gen 4) is sorta big, takes some getting used to. A range officer bud says to get the trigger in the first finger joint, don't use the finger pad like with a 1911. I have long fingers and have to rotate my hand somewhat to get that far into the trigger. I think he's right.
Glock holds more ammo than the 1911, not sure what that's worth...
DF
Nice! Been thinking about a G40 myself though I'm not sure about the RMR idea?
I own both a Gen4 G20 and a Gen3 G20SF. Previous posters are right - the grips are the same size. Neither has ergonomics as wonderful as a 1911 but then nothing really does. I also own a Springfield XDm 10mm with the 5.25" barrel. Ergonomics are better than the Glocks but the trigger is really mushy with a lot of travel. 10mm is the cat's ass.
Gen 4 Glock 20 with RMR. I had to get Trijicon supressor irons to co-witness the RMR, finding the dot is faster, at least for me.
The grip (even Gen 4) is sorta big, takes some getting used to. A range officer bud says to get the trigger in the first finger joint, don't use the finger pad like with a 1911. I have long fingers and have to rotate my hand somewhat to get that far into the trigger. I think he's right.
Glock holds more ammo than the 1911, not sure what that's worth...
DF
Nice! Been thinking about a G40 myself though I'm not sure about the RMR idea?
It's my first. Still getting used to it.
DF
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
I would consider a 1911 with a 460 Rowland Clark conversion if I was concerned about "big brown inland growlies". A 230 grain flat nose hard cast lead bullet at 1200 fps is approaching 44 mag territory.
I have one, and 1150+ fps with a 255 grain LBT LFN is done at reasonably low pressure and recoil. 1200 is doable, but recoil is starting to slow you down. I believe meplat is 83% and BHn is 22. It will penetrate.
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
With 6" barrel, I'd think it would.
DF
Caution - It'll physically fit, but if it was a G20sf barrel it probably has the gen 3 guide rod cut, which is smaller than what the G40 needs. The difference is just a radius cut in front of the locking lugs and is the spot where the guide rod sits; the head of gen 4 guide rods is bigger than the gen 3 guide rods.
Because of that, gen 4 barrels are reverse compatible with gen 3 guns, but not the other way around. You can cause some problems using that gen 3 barrel in a gen 4.
However, if you're pretty handy with tools or know a local friendly machinist, enlarging that radius is possible.
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
If not, you can sell it to me.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
With 6" barrel, I'd think it would.
DF
Caution - It'll physically fit, but if it was a G20sf barrel it probably has the gen 3 guide rod cut, which is smaller than what the G40 needs. The difference is just a radius cut in front of the locking lugs and is the spot where the guide rod sits; the head of gen 4 guide rods is bigger than the gen 3 guide rods.
Because of that, gen 4 barrels are reverse compatible with gen 3 guns, but not the other way around. You can cause some problems using that gen 3 barrel in a gen 4.
However, if you're pretty handy with tools or know a local friendly machinist, enlarging that radius is possible.
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Last edited by 340boy; 04/04/19.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
If not, you can sell it to me.
It is the only aftermarket barrel I have ever tried in my Glocks, and it did quite well. In fact, I'm sort of kicking myself for ever selling that Gen3 G20-it was a great 'host'.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
There’s a lot more 10mm options today than there was 5 years ago and that’s a good thing. I’ve owned delta elites, Kimber 1911s, and glocks. They all functioned well. I’m really wanting to try an xdm.
I wonder about the xdm myself, wish there were more reviews on the gun and its performance. I would want to disable the grip safety as well, foolish idea in my opinion.
I wonder about the xdm myself, wish there were more reviews on the gun and its performance. I would want to disable the grip safety as well, foolish idea in my opinion.
I have sold dozens of them to customers. Not a single lemon among them so far.
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
With 6" barrel, I'd think it would.
DF
Caution - It'll physically fit, but if it was a G20sf barrel it probably has the gen 3 guide rod cut, which is smaller than what the G40 needs. The difference is just a radius cut in front of the locking lugs and is the spot where the guide rod sits; the head of gen 4 guide rods is bigger than the gen 3 guide rods.
Because of that, gen 4 barrels are reverse compatible with gen 3 guns, but not the other way around. You can cause some problems using that gen 3 barrel in a gen 4.
However, if you're pretty handy with tools or know a local friendly machinist, enlarging that radius is possible.
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Just had a thought. Why don't you contact KKM and see if they would alter your Gen 3 barrel to work with a Gen 4 gun.
Another "vote" for the EAA Witness! I have two, a "stainless" like the one in the earlier poster's photo, and a blued version. Like them both - a lot. Also have a 10mm RIA 1911. I really like the 10mm round, but had a bad experience with a G20 and a case blowout - so I'm "off" of 10mm Glocks.
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
With 6" barrel, I'd think it would.
DF
Caution - It'll physically fit, but if it was a G20sf barrel it probably has the gen 3 guide rod cut, which is smaller than what the G40 needs. The difference is just a radius cut in front of the locking lugs and is the spot where the guide rod sits; the head of gen 4 guide rods is bigger than the gen 3 guide rods.
Because of that, gen 4 barrels are reverse compatible with gen 3 guns, but not the other way around. You can cause some problems using that gen 3 barrel in a gen 4.
However, if you're pretty handy with tools or know a local friendly machinist, enlarging that radius is possible.
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Just had a thought. Why don't you contact KKM and see if they would alter your Gen 3 barrel to work with a Gen 4 gun.
DF
Good idea! I will get in touch with KKM and see what they have to say.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Another "vote" for the EAA Witness! I have two, a "stainless" like the one in the earlier poster's photo, and a blued version. Like them both - a lot. Also have a 10mm RIA 1911. I really like the 10mm round, but had a bad experience with a G20 and a case blowout - so I'm "off" of 10mm Glocks.
Mike Holmes
I've had a lot of different 10mm's. Two were 20's. I've always feared what you describe and so I no longer have a 20.
Another "vote" for the EAA Witness! I have two, a "stainless" like the one in the earlier poster's photo, and a blued version. Like them both - a lot. Also have a 10mm RIA 1911. I really like the 10mm round, but had a bad experience with a G20 and a case blowout - so I'm "off" of 10mm Glocks.
Mike Holmes
I've had a lot of different 10mm's. Two were 20's. I've always feared what you describe and so I no longer have a 20.
I had some concerns that way also after shooting a fair amount of Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo in my 20s/29s. I had a few cases that were visibly bulging. That was the main reason I bought that KKM barrel. I have heard, however, that Glock has more case support in the current 10mm offerings than with the Gen 3 and prior models? ?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Another "vote" for the EAA Witness! I have two, a "stainless" like the one in the earlier poster's photo, and a blued version. Like them both - a lot. Also have a 10mm RIA 1911. I really like the 10mm round, but had a bad experience with a G20 and a case blowout - so I'm "off" of 10mm Glocks.
Mike Holmes
I've had a lot of different 10mm's. Two were 20's. I've always feared what you describe and so I no longer have a 20.
Is the G40 different?
And, does the KMM barrel correct whatever deficiency the G20 may have?
Another "vote" for the EAA Witness! I have two, a "stainless" like the one in the earlier poster's photo, and a blued version. Like them both - a lot. Also have a 10mm RIA 1911. I really like the 10mm round, but had a bad experience with a G20 and a case blowout - so I'm "off" of 10mm Glocks.
Mike Holmes
Mike was that a handload? Also what gen G20 had the case failure? How accurate is the 10mm witness?
Here is a rented today Gen 4 G20 against a couple of 9's, my spare P365 is shooting plus a gen3 17, the g20 was shooting S&B 180 fmj 20 a box junk ammo. Once I overcame my fear of the wrist breaking recoil in the G20 and fighting back tears due to recoil trauma, it turned out that the G20 shot pretty good. All the targets are sideways cause I was holding the gun on its side like in the movies. Top target is the 10. Fotis if the shorter XDM 10 will out shoot a glock let me know, I would be very interested.
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Here is a rented today Gen 4 G20 against a couple of 9's, my spare P365 is shooting plus a gen3 17, the g20 was shooting S&B 180 fmj 20 a box junk ammo. Once I overcame my fear of the wrist breaking recoil in the G20 and fighting back tears due to recoil trauma, it turned out that the G20 shot pretty good. All the targets are sideways cause I was holding the gun on its side like in the movies. Top target is the 10. Fotis if the shorter XDM 10 will out shoot a glock let me know, I would be very interested.
Curious why you feel the S&B 180 gr fmj is junk ammo?
I think the stuff is pretty righteous, myself. Just bought another five hundred of them from SGAmmo a few weeks ago.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
Got it. I had a few years back a G20 SF that I retrofitted with Meprolite adjustable tritium sights and a 6" KKM barrel. I liked that rig! I got rid of it years ago but kept the KKM barrel. I wonder if it would work in the G40? 😎
If not, you can sell it to me.
It is the only aftermarket barrel I have ever tried in my Glocks, and it did quite well. In fact, I'm sort of kicking myself for ever selling that Gen3 G20-it was a great 'host'.
I never sold my Gen3 G20 SF. :-))
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Been googling the Springfield XDM ans EAA Witness. Like the looks of the Springfield a bit better but need to get a G20, XDM, and Witness in my hands to see how they feel. I've shot a couple of the bigger glocks and the grip feels weird to me. I have rather average size hands so maybe thats the issue. I'm curious how XDM/Witness feel.
Probably going to sell my Ruger SS Security Six 357 to fund a 10mm. Just need to determine which one I shoot best.
I would consider a 1911 with a 460 Rowland Clark conversion if I was concerned about "big brown inland growlies". A 230 grain flat nose hard cast lead bullet at 1200 fps is approaching 44 mag territory.
OP, I would invest in the time to research the .460 Rowland. You talk about follow up shots. The Clark Comp is very well designed.
My on target follow up shots with the .460 is better than any other big handgun I shoot. All the way down to include .357 Magnum revolvers. Much faster than the 10mm's I have.
Look at the video's. Don't take my word for it.
You can get the kit for the Glock also.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
You can see how horrible the gen 4 glock 20 shoots with its abortion of a trigger, looking at my 30 feet targets with 180 grain S&B ammo. Its just sad that they still are revered as "perfection"...sad, sad, sad....OTOH I really want to try the SA 10 I have held it and it seemed nose heavy to me, which may be a good thing, the grip seemed like it had less circumference, and the grip seemed more in line with a 1911 grip angle, the trigger was mushy feeling and I don't know how to fix one of those triggers....
All of the 10mm pistols discussed in this thread so far except the 1911 are no-go for me, because of my gimpy hand. I've read that the Ruger is the only 10mm 1911 with a ramped barrel. Is that true? And should I care?
Has anyone here any experience with the Sig 220 in 10mm?
To answer an earlier question, my G20 was, I think, a Gen 3. The round that "blew" was fired from am aftermarket barrel, 6 inch length/ I di go to a 6" Block barrel on it after that, and had no problems with that one. I don't have a 10,, Sig 220, but would like to try one. I do have a Sig 220 chambered in .45 ACP, and like that one a lot/
To answer an earlier question, my G20 was, I think, a Gen 3. The round that "blew" was fired from am aftermarket barrel, 6 inch length/ I di go to a 6" Block barrel on it after that, and had no problems with that one. I don't have a 10,, Sig 220, but would like to try one. I do have a Sig 220 chambered in .45 ACP, and like that one a lot/
Mike
Those are 2 guns I'd like to shoot some time. Never shot either. Pawed a .45 acp version at LGS last year.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
I've got a 220 in 10. Its a beast. 44oz empty, but its made to handle the 10. I highly recommend it. All of the 10MM pistols I've seen have ramped barrels.
All of the 10mm pistols discussed in this thread so far except the 1911 are no-go for me, because of my gimpy hand. I've read that the Ruger is the only 10mm 1911 with a ramped barrel. Is that true? And should I care?
Has anyone here any experience with the Sig 220 in 10mm?
As far as I know all 10mm 1911s have ramped barrels except for the Colt Delta....
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
I've read that the Ruger is the only 10mm 1911 with a ramped barrel. Is that true? And should I care?
As far as I know all 10mm 1911s have ramped barrels except for the Colt Delta....
Lot's of shooters assume that a ramped barrel is synonymous with chamber support, which of course it is not - Glocks have a ramped barrel. A ramped barrel is a consideration in a 1911 because it changes the way a 1911 operates. Should you care? Sure, but chamber support is independent and more important.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. Robert Frost
AFAIK, Colt is the only 10mm with a conventional barrel.
It's also true that of the 3 Colt Delta's I've owned, they'd eat anything out of any magazine. The Kimber I own is a LOT more fussy about what it will eat, and some magazines do not work, period.
I have had a Glock 20 for several years and like it just bought the 4.5 " Springfield XDM 10 MM , shot it and the Glock side by side quite a bit more felt recoil than the Glock? My wife thought so also, plus the Springfield slide was difficult for her also. Bears are out now and one of them usually goes with us. I like the grip safety and loaded chamber features of the Springfield very accurate so jury is still out.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
"I found with bigger bore handguns, the recoil precludes an accurate second shot at close range" Tell that to Towsley, 5 shots in under 3 seconds with a 454 Casull Freedom Arms with good accuracy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F71SPRFr_Y An alternative to a new semi auto 10 mm is to use the money to buy practice ammo for an adequate sized revolver
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Yeah, KKM makes great barrels, quality stuff.
I just spoke with Dan at KKM barrels and he stated that the 6" G20 barrel that I purchased for my Gen3 about 7 years ago should work just fine in a Gen 4 G20 or a G40, for that matter.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Yeah, KKM makes great barrels, quality stuff.
I just spoke with Dan at KKM barrels and he stated that the 6" G20 barrel that I purchased for my Gen3 about 7 years ago should work just fine in a Gen 4 G20 or a G40, for that matter.
Interesting; they must have started making gen 4 guide rod cuts in all of them around that time? Did he confirm that?
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Yeah, KKM makes great barrels, quality stuff.
I just spoke with Dan at KKM barrels and he stated that the 6" G20 barrel that I purchased for my Gen3 about 7 years ago should work just fine in a Gen 4 G20 or a G40, for that matter.
Interesting; they must have started making gen 4 guide rod cuts in all of them around that time? Did he confirm that?
He didn't go into details, but I emphasized the fact that I had purchased the barrel around 7 years ago, and he immediately said that it would work with the Gen 4 G20 and 'all generations of the G40, also'. I will admit I was a bit surprised that they are compatible, but that's what the man at KKM stated.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
How much better did your G-20 shoot with the KKM barrel vs. OEM?
DF
On paper I'd say, a 1/3 better than with the stock barrel? It was really quite noticeable with shots at 25 yards or longer, and especially with the 200gr Gold Dots and XTP loads from Underwood at the time. That thing was a lot of fun.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
How much better did your G-20 shoot with the KKM barrel vs. OEM?
DF
On paper I'd say, a 1/3 better than with the stock barrel? It was really quite noticeable with shots at 25 yards or longer, and especially with the 200gr Gold Dots and XTP loads from Underwood at the time. That thing was a lot of fun.
How much better did your G-20 shoot with the KKM barrel vs. OEM?
DF
On paper I'd say, a 1/3 better than with the stock barrel? It was really quite noticeable with shots at 25 yards or longer, and especially with the 200gr Gold Dots and XTP loads from Underwood at the time. That thing was a lot of fun.
So, worth the cost in your opinion?
Did it take much if any fitting?
DF
It was a straight 'drop-in' proposition on my Gen 3-no fitting required. If I was going to do it over again, I would buy another barrel from KKM, no question.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Yondering, Good info there, I probably ought to check with KKM before I try the swap. I love the barrel, it turned that G20 of mine into a hunting machine. I was very impressed with the accuracy-from slow factory 'target' loads all the way to hot Buffalo Bore and Underwood stuff.
Yeah, KKM makes great barrels, quality stuff.
I just spoke with Dan at KKM barrels and he stated that the 6" G20 barrel that I purchased for my Gen3 about 7 years ago should work just fine in a Gen 4 G20 or a G40, for that matter.
Interesting; they must have started making gen 4 guide rod cuts in all of them around that time? Did he confirm that?
He didn't go into details, but I emphasized the fact that I had purchased the barrel around 7 years ago, and he immediately said that it would work with the Gen 4 G20 and 'all generations of the G40, also'. I will admit I was a bit surprised that they are compatible, but that's what the man at KKM stated.
They must have switched to the gen 4 cut then, which is backwards compatible with previous gens anyway. That would be a logical choice for KKM. My gen 3 examples are older than that, and I've only bought gen 4 since then so I can't confirm what you were told.
(Also FYI, the G40 is only gen 4 at this point.)
You can verify easily for yourself, just look at that cut in front of the recoil lug and compare to another gen 3 or 4 barrel.
I think a 7” KKM for my G-40 would be cool. 1” of SS barrel sticking out from the slide would make it an even bigger gun but for hunting, who cares.
DF
+1 to all that.
I have a 6.6" barrel in my long slide "G20L" (Lone Wolf, yech, but it was the only game in town back then and has since been smoothed and tuned into a slick shooter). It's a long barrel for a semi auto, but feels like the right amount of gun for hot 10mm loads. 200gr WFN @ 1350 fps, etc are very smooth and controllable in that setup and it feels a lot milder to me than a medium/big bore revolver of similar power.
Just don't use it for AIWB carry. "Is that a longslide in your pants or ??"
I have a Kydex holster for my G-40, but it's gonna eventually scratch up the slide; drawing the gun makes too much racket .
I'd like one with a lining.
What holsters are you guys using with the big Glock.
DF
I picked up a Safariland GLS for mine because I like paddle style (it also has belt slots) and didn't want to spend alot. Works well with a red dot but a small bit of slide pokes out
Charter Member Ancient order of the 1895 Winchester
"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes." szihn
I have a Kydex holster for my G-40, but it's gonna eventually scratch up the slide; drawing the gun makes too much racket .
I'd like one with a lining.
What holsters are you guys using with the big Glock.
DF
I picked up a Safariland GLS for mine because I like paddle style (it also has belt slots) and didn't want to spend alot. Works well with a red dot but a small bit of slide pokes out
Kydex without a lining will eventually scratch up the slide, plus it's a noisy draw.
I want Kydex with a leather lining. Easy on the finish, quite on the draw.
I have a Kydex holster for my G-40, but it's gonna eventually scratch up the slide; drawing the gun makes too much racket .
I'd like one with a lining.
What holsters are you guys using with the big Glock.
DF
I picked up a Safariland GLS for mine because I like paddle style (it also has belt slots) and didn't want to spend alot. Works well with a red dot but a small bit of slide pokes out
That looks like a nice setup!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Kydex without a lining will eventually scratch up the slide, plus it's a noisy draw.
I want Kydex with a leather lining. Easy on the finish, quite on the draw.
Am still looking.
DF
So far it has not caused any scratches to my slides finish. I'm sure however it's not as quiet as well broken in leather. From Safariland website. "The holster body is constructed with SafariSeven™, a lightweight, state-of-the-art nylon blend is completely non-abrasive to a gun’s finish"
Charter Member Ancient order of the 1895 Winchester
"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes." szihn
Don't know about now but back when the G40 came out there were no leather holsters out there that would fit... Contacted Simply Rugged and he made a CUDA holster for mine...
It is a good shooter...
Most of the time it is carried in the truck in a Bagmaster Vertical Carry Pouch....
800 lumen light with green laser...
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Already checked with them. It is about what I'm looking for. They can't accommodate the 6" slide, will have at least 3/4" sticking out. With the tall suppressor sights, I'm concerned about the front sight hanging up with a draw. And, I'm about to order a 7" KKM barrel, which won't hang up, but will be a good bit sticking out. It's the sight that's my main concern, the extra inch of barrel sticking out, not a problem.
I have a Garrett Auto Hood. The hood lost adjustment shortly after I purchased it and I had to send it back for repair on my dime and pay return postage. The belt attachment broke and I received a "Ho hum, it happens. You can purchase a heavy duty replacement." Not impressed with their customer service.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
see I had always thought that glock barrels were hard cast bullet friendly.
I’ve heard they did fairly well with real hard cast, like Buffalo Bore loads
IIRC, Glock doesn’t recommend cast bullets.
DF
I saw several reports that the KKM barrels do not increase accuracy measurably, groups shot with std barrel and KKM don't vary in size measurably, however I am sure that someone will post a 5 inch group with a glock barrel and a 1 inch group with a KKM now that I make mention of it. I think several people here have shot a good bit of hard cast from a glock barrel, the hard cast does not seem to be a problem. .
see I had always thought that glock barrels were hard cast bullet friendly.
I’ve heard they did fairly well with real hard cast, like Buffalo Bore loads
IIRC, Glock doesn’t recommend cast bullets.
DF
I saw several reports that the KKM barrels do not increase accuracy measurably, groups shot with std barrel and KKM don't vary in size measurably, however I am sure that someone will post a 5 inch group with a glock barrel and a 1 inch group with a KKM now that I make mention of it. I think several people here have shot a good bit of hard cast from a glock barrel, the hard cast does not seem to be a problem. .
Glock barrels handle cast bullets as well as any other barrel, and better than a lot of the aftermarket replacements in my experience. But that doesn't stop people repeating the same line they read on the internet somewhere, so the rumor continues.
Yes it is but I don't really mind the weight. I carry it as my woods gun when I wander through far northern Wisconsin and it cycles everything I put in it. The recoil is quite manageable.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.- Albert Einstein
Glock barrels handle cast bullets as well as any other barrel, and better than a lot of the aftermarket replacements in my experience. But that doesn't stop people repeating the same line they read on the internet somewhere, so the rumor continues.
Some years ago, we had a cops and cowboys fund raising shoot at our CAS range. Local city police and sheriffs deputies joined us for the shoot. I remember the discussions about their Glocks and our targets. Our group didn't want to use anything but soft lead, the consensus was Glock didn't recommend such.
Anyway, don't remember the final solution, just that most of those LEO officers were an embarrassment to gun handling. They were dropping mags, couldn't shoot worth a ___... All except one Natchitoches Parish Sheriff's deupty who was an artist with a 1911. That ole boy could flat shoot and it was a pleasure to watch him doing his thing. Wouldn't give a nickle for the rest of them.
Our cowboys made all but him look pretty bad. If I was gonna be a career LEO, I'd have my shooting skills perfected. Most of them just qualify because they have to, seem to have no pride in marksmanship. And, IMO, that's a shame. Doesn't have to be that way. I guess they're fortunate I'm not their chief or their sheriff.
DF, it's true that very soft lead bullets (meaning swaged lead, not cast for the most part) don't do well in Glock barrels, but that's true for a lot of other barrels as well. Medium to hard cast bullets are a totally different story though; as long as the bullet is slightly (usually .001" or more) larger than the groove and throat dimensions and hardness is matched well to maximum load pressure, they'll generally shoot well in Glock barrels without any danger. Obviously there are exceptions when loads are too hot or too weak, bullets the wrong shape, etc etc, but again those things apply to pretty much all barrels, not just Glock.
I'm speaking from experience, cast being 99.9% of what I shoot, lots of it in Glock barrels.
One caveat/exception that specific to the 9mm though is the tendency for some European 9mm barrels to have larger groove diameter than the standard .355" in the US. I had one 9mm G19 barrel (Austria marked gun) that slugged at .357" - that would tend to lead up (obviously) with .356" cast bullets, but when used with the same bullets at .358" it had no problems. My other Glock 9mm bores have all been .355". That particular oddity of 9mm barrels seems to be a Euro vs USA thing and is not exclusive to Glock.
I have a good supply of 180 gr. .401", 38-40 bullets from my CAS days. I'd say they were pretty soft. I'm hoping they'll work well thru the 7" KKM barrel for my Glock 40.
Those shoot great in my 1910 vintage 38-40 Win '92. It has a shiney bore with a few pits. It actually out shot a new Marlin Cowboy .45 Colt, pretty amazing for a nearly 110 yr old rifle.
DF, if you ever decide to give a 1911 10mm a go, the Dan Wesson Valor is a beautifully accurate beast already rigged up with the checkering and night sights, a friend bought one of those the same time i got my Razorback, both pistols are more accurate than either of us, which isn't saying much in my case.
DF, if you ever decide to give a 1911 10mm a go, the Dan Wesson Valor is a beautifully accurate beast already rigged up with the checkering and night sights, a friend bought one of those the same time i got my Razorback, both pistols are more accurate than either of us, which isn't saying much in my case.
I don't have a Valor, but my favorite handgun in my (too small) stable is a Dan Wesson Specialist Commander. What a shooter!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
DF, if you ever decide to give a 1911 10mm a go, the Dan Wesson Valor is a beautifully accurate beast already rigged up with the checkering and night sights, a friend bought one of those the same time i got my Razorback, both pistols are more accurate than either of us, which isn't saying much in my case.
I don't have a Valor, but my favorite handgun in my (too small) stable is a Dan Wesson Specialist Commander. What a shooter!
NICE, I'm no pistolero aficionado, but, my DW is every bit as tight and accurate as my Les Baer, damn nice factory guns that feel like custom/semi-customs to me.
DF, if you ever decide to give a 1911 10mm a go, the Dan Wesson Valor is a beautifully accurate beast already rigged up with the checkering and night sights, a friend bought one of those the same time i got my Razorback, both pistols are more accurate than either of us, which isn't saying much in my case.
I don't have a Valor, but my favorite handgun in my (too small) stable is a Dan Wesson Specialist Commander. What a shooter!
NICE, I'm no pistolero aficionado, but, my DW is every bit as tight and accurate as my Les Baer, damn nice factory guns that feel like custom/semi-customs to me.
I've never owned a full custom 1911, but I sure hear nice things about those Baers! I'm happy enough with my DW that I have thought about purchasing another-one in 10mm would be perfect.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Never bought a full custom either, but have coon fingered a few a gun shows, very nice, I went with the cheaper DW Razorback because my 'Smith owed me about 180 bucks worth of labor on a deal, he put a beautiful custom front strap checkering job and a stainless magwell on my 10mm.
I wanted to order the correct height Novak style night sights to shoot to poa with the 200gr handload I'd eventually work up, so didn't need factory night sights either.
Never bought a full custom either, but have coon fingered a few a gun shows, very nice, I went with the cheaper DW Razorback because my 'Smith owed me about 180 bucks worth of labor on a deal, he put a beautiful custom front strap checkering job and a stainless magwell on my 10mm.
I wanted to order the correct height Novak style night sights to shoot to poa with the 200gr handload I'd eventually work up, so didn't need factory night sights either.
That sounds sweet. 😎👍🏻
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
I have a good supply of 180 gr. .401", 38-40 bullets from my CAS days. I'd say they were pretty soft. I'm hoping they'll work well thru the 7" KKM barrel for my Glock 40.
Those shoot great in my 1910 vintage 38-40 Win '92. It has a shiney bore with a few pits. It actually out shot a new Marlin Cowboy .45 Colt, pretty amazing for a nearly 110 yr old rifle.
DF.
I would not expect much from those bullets in a 10mm or a 40 S&W. "Pretty soft" is not a good thing in higher pressure pistol cartridges like this unless you're really loading them down weak. The alloy needs to be matched to the cartridge pressure to some extent; very soft bullets are common in CAS shooting because of the very low pressure loads many use, but that's a whole different thing than the 10mm. A different bullet choice will save you some frustration.
In case it wasn't clear earlier - those very soft bullets like that are the problem in Glock barrels and the reason for the persistent rumor, but they don't usually work too well in other barrels either at high pressures.
There are other options available to compete with Glock. New XDm 5.25" Ergos are better than a Glock (to me). Very few rounds fired thus far. Seems finicky. 3" at 20 offhand was easy with everything. Had to add some powder to get it to tighten up. Initial testing with Longshot sucked. Load above is 13.8 AA#9 and 180 Berry FMJ/FP something. Toying with crimp. May have added too much crimp to prior loads. Lyman taper crimp separate stage. Mag springs are stout AF. Sights are miles ahead of Glock factory. Already shooting better than a G40 I moved. But can't hold a candle to a Kimber Target II in 10. But get a light attachment point and a schitt ton more ammo on board.
There are other options available to compete with Glock. New XDm 5.25" Ergos are better than a Glock (to me). Very few rounds fired thus far. Seems finicky. 3" at 20 offhand was easy with everything. Had to add some powder to get it to tighten up. Initial testing with Longshot sucked. Load above is 13.8 AA#9 and 180 Berry FMJ/FP something. Toying with crimp. May have added too much crimp to prior loads. Lyman taper crimp separate stage. Mag springs are stout AF. Sights are miles ahead of Glock factory. Already shooting better than a G40 I moved. But can't hold a candle to a Kimber Target II in 10. But get a light attachment point and a schitt ton more ammo on board.
Max loads of AA-9 has been very accurate in both of my Glock 10mm’s and my Kimber 10mm. You might want to try some Hornady 180 gr & 200 gr XTP bullets.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Have both. I'll dick around with these Berry's and use the XTP or Gold Dots for backcountry carry. Bought Underwood 180 Bonded (think they're bonded Gold Dots?) which I will test for accuracy and POI/POA check.
I dumped a decent WT buck this fall with my Kimber 10mm running same load with 180 XTP. 25 yards from a treestand. No pass through, but pretty pronounced downward angle from top of backtrap-ish into the goodies. I could hear sucking chest wound when he hit the dirt. Saw blood immediately. I'm kind impressed with the XTP.
RE: G40. I dicked with that gun a ton. Wasn't impressed. On paper (specs) it shoulda been a Rockstar. In reality....I couldn't get it to shoot to what I thought was an acceptable level of accuracy. I am personally much more of a precision rifle shooter/LR steel shooter who shoots and carries a pistol. So YouTube being full of DBs who burn ammo indoors at 5 yards and keep rounds on the target don't really impress me. I'll never take LESS accuracy, whether the situation requires it or not.
I did NOT RMR it, but I have at least a fair amount of handgun proficiency. Carry one daily for 22+ years now and shoot them often and more than a WalMart white box of ammo per year.
Gold Dots and Remington Golden Sabre bullets are also accurate in mine with the same loads.
You’ll get pass through with the 200 gr XTP’s. I’ve yet to catch one in a hog or deer.
Last edited by chlinstructor; 04/17/19.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Probably because he was trying to use cheap plated bullets in full power 10mm loads (if I understand his post). That's a pretty good recipe for poor accuracy. Good bullets change everything.
Most of the factory pistol ammo I’ve shot in my handguns is just not that accurate. The one exception has been Speer Gold Dot Ammo. By using big name brand factory produced handgun bullets in my hand loads, I’ve had much better results, accuracy wise.
Factory Rifle Ammo, however is a different story. Some very accurate stuff being produced nowadays by the major brands. Especially Hornady.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
We compete LR steel....I can't make ammo much better than Prime for 6.5 Creed. ES very low. Accuracy stellar. Use great components...or did. Think they're belly up. HSM was stellar as well.
I have Underwood bonded 180s I just received. Will try a 5 shot with those tomorrow. Post results if anyone is interested. No Chrono anymore. Not gonna tape my Magneto on the pic rail
Found the 10mm penetration charts on LuckyGunner pretty informative. My 10s are not personal defense. Backcountry defense. I am not a fan of HC from personal experience. Why I am trying the Bonded Gold Dots. Looked very consistent in penetration/retention/deformation. FPS was where it should have been as well. 1250 is good enough.
I’ve shot a ton of hard cast bullets in all of my Glocks. Hadn’t hurt a damn thing. The key, as the article states, is the hardness of the bullets being used.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
I got a 1995 G20 new in 1998. I did overload work ups with 200 gr bullets, 800X and Power Pistol powders. The recoil spring is weak. I built a triple recoil spring assembly. The case support is poor. I bought a number of aftermarket barrels. The 10mm cases with large primer pocket are weak. I used 40sw brass in throated 40sw barrel in the G20.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
Update on the KKM 7" 10mm barrel for the Glock 40.
I have a bunch of CAS .38-40 180 gr. soft lead bullets I'm gonna try to shoot in the 10mm with Unique.
Bottom picture shows 7" KKM barrel in the Glock,
.38-40 bullet, far left in the photo. It looks fatter, but is .401. The meplat is larger and the taper not as slim as the truncated cone 40 cal. cast bullet. I'm hoping the KKM will handle soft lead, as I have a bunch of them. Hope the gun will feed them.
Loaded round is a 180 hard cast truncated cone, next 180 FMJ, last 180 Horn XTP. Haven't shot the .38-40. Of the other three, the XPT is the most accurate, FMJ second, cast third. That may change with the KKM barrel.
I got a 1995 G20 new in 1998. I did overload work ups with 200 gr bullets, 800X and Power Pistol powders. The recoil spring is weak. I built a triple recoil spring assembly. The case support is poor. I bought a number of aftermarket barrels. The 10mm cases with large primer pocket are weak. I used 40sw brass in throated 40sw barrel in the G20.
I do the same thing. About 4-5 years ago I had kkm make a barrel for my gen 3 sf 20 chambered to headspace a 40 case throated at 10mm length. With 180s and 200s I can seat them out to 10mm length and still have enough bullet in the case for grip.
Everyone told me I was crazy loading them to 10 speeds and that I'd blow myself up. I kept trying to tell them that small pocket 40 brass is stronger than the large pocket 10mm brass. They still think I'm crazy but it's been awesome buying super cheep once fired 40 brass and loading it once, letting it fly, and not worrying about picking up brass.
I got a 1995 G20 new in 1998. I did overload work ups with 200 gr bullets, 800X and Power Pistol powders. The recoil spring is weak. I built a triple recoil spring assembly. The case support is poor. I bought a number of aftermarket barrels. The 10mm cases with large primer pocket are weak. I used 40sw brass in throated 40sw barrel in the G20.
I do the same thing. About 4-5 years ago I had kkm make a barrel for my gen 3 sf 20 chambered to headspace a 40 case throated at 10mm length. With 180s and 200s I can seat them out to 10mm length and still have enough bullet in the case for grip.
Everyone told me I was crazy loading them to 10 speeds and that I'd blow myself up. I kept trying to tell them that small pocket 40 brass is stronger than the large pocket 10mm brass. They still think I'm crazy but it's been awesome buying super cheep once fired 40 brass and loading it once, letting it fly, and not worrying about picking up brass.
Bb
I did that for years myself, and it used to be fairly common in certain competition circles.
It's not so much that the 40 case is stronger (the failure point is not the primer pocket), but more that the 40 brass has less grip on the bullet and produces lower pressure for the same load. In my measurements with most bullets, identical full power loads in 10mm and 40 S&W brass produced about 50 fps less in the 40 S&W brass.
Dirtfarmer - one suggestion - use a lot less crimp on the lead bullets than your picture shows. Too much crimp is a pretty common error for cast bullet loads. Particularly with softer bullets, too much crimp can ruin accuracy and promote leading. For my semi auto cast bullet loads (in all calibers) I only crimp enough to mostly remove the flare in the case mouth, no actual crimp into the bullet. That gives best accuracy for cast bullet loads.
Dirtfarmer - one suggestion - use a lot less crimp on the lead bullets than your picture shows. Too much crimp is a pretty common error for cast bullet loads. Particularly with softer bullets, too much crimp can ruin accuracy and promote leading. For my semi auto cast bullet loads (in all calibers) I only crimp enough to mostly remove the flare in the case mouth, no actual crimp into the bullet. That gives best accuracy for cast bullet loads.
Update on the KKM 7" 10mm barrel for the Glock 40.
I have a bunch of CAS .38-40 180 gr. soft lead bullets I'm gonna try to shoot in the 10mm with Unique.
Bottom picture shows 7" KKM barrel in the Glock,
.38-40 bullet, far left in the photo. It looks fatter, but is .401. The meplat is larger and the taper not as slim as the truncated cone 40 cal. cast bullet. I'm hoping the KKM will handle soft lead, as I have a bunch of them. Hope the gun will feed them.
Loaded round is a 180 hard cast truncated cone, next 180 FMJ, last 180 Horn XTP. Haven't shot the .38-40. Of the other three, the XPT is the most accurate, FMJ second, cast third. That may change with the KKM barrel.
DF
Looks good, DF. Looking forward to a range report!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
Update on the KKM 7" 10mm barrel for the Glock 40.
I have a bunch of CAS .38-40 180 gr. soft lead bullets I'm gonna try to shoot in the 10mm with Unique.
Bottom picture shows 7" KKM barrel in the Glock,
.38-40 bullet, far left in the photo. It looks fatter, but is .401. The meplat is larger and the taper not as slim as the truncated cone 40 cal. cast bullet. I'm hoping the KKM will handle soft lead, as I have a bunch of them. Hope the gun will feed them.
Loaded round is a 180 hard cast truncated cone, next 180 FMJ, last 180 Horn XTP. Haven't shot the .38-40. Of the other three, the XPT is the most accurate, FMJ second, cast third. That may change with the KKM barrel.
DF
Looks good, DF. Looking forward to a range report!
Thanks,
I appreciate Yondering's tip on not over crimping with soft lead bullets.
My Dillon 550B has been set up for 10mm. I want to try Unique with the .38-40 bullets, probably around 6 gr., have plenty of it
RE: Crimp I am using a Lee taper crimp die in a stand alone stage. Single stage press. I HAVE had bullet set back in the past. Guessing this is a very sensitive aspect of loading? A 32nd of a turn on the die goes a good ways. I do see some much better accuracy results going lighter. Guess I will have to run some full mags through with the load and check every 4-5 rounds? These are jacket bullets/XTP
RE: Crimp I am using a Lee taper crimp die in a stand alone stage. Single stage press. I HAVE had bullet set back in the past. Guessing this is a very sensitive aspect of loading? A 32nd of a turn on the die goes a good ways. I do see some much better accuracy results going lighter. Guess I will have to run some full mags through with the load and check every 4-5 rounds? These are jacket bullets/XTP
If you have bullet set back in a properly functioning semi-auto in one of the straight wall service cartridges or similar, you most likely either have undersized bullets or the brass isn't sized correctly. (And some dies are definitely out of spec in that regard.) Neck tension alone is plenty to get the job done without messing up the bullet with a hard crimp.
The ultimate 10mm in my opinion. EAA WITNESS 15 shot. Great looks very very accurate and looks great I love mine.
Your earlier posts on this one have had me intrigued with the EAA - enough so that I just ordered one and it arrived at my FFL yesterday and I'm anxiously waiting for him to tell me to come and pick it up. I think it was the pic of the zombie clown you ventilated that pushed me over the edge! Now I have to decide if the Delta Elite stays or goes...
The ultimate 10mm in my opinion. EAA WITNESS 15 shot. Great looks very very accurate and looks great I love mine.
Your earlier posts on this one have had me intrigued with the EAA - enough so that I just ordered one and it arrived at my FFL yesterday and I'm anxiously waiting for him to tell me to come and pick it up. I think it was the pic of the zombie clown you ventilated that pushed me over the edge! Now I have to decide if the Delta Elite stays or goes...
My gunsmith is a Glock armorer. He’s said to do a good trigger job on Glocks. The one he did on my G-40 leaves a lot to be desired.
What’s the best aftermarket Glock trigger? Too nice a gun to not have a better trigger.
DF
I’ve used a few different setups on Glock triggers and found my personal preference is the ghost evo elite 3.5 connector fitted for as little over travel as possible while still giving reliable function . The factory trigger bar suits my finger . Everything is polished . It’s smooth and more consistent in weight through the pull and resets fast . I use the factory springs but you could drop some weight there if desired .
I had an overwatch precision flat faced trigger setup with a ghost rocket connector that was smoother but had more overtravel than I wanted .
Rabid Creedmoorians ring my doorbell ... as I open it a crack they speak : "Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior , 6.5Creed?"
The ultimate 10mm in my opinion. EAA WITNESS 15 shot. Great looks very very accurate and looks great I love mine.
Your earlier posts on this one have had me intrigued with the EAA - enough so that I just ordered one and it arrived at my FFL yesterday and I'm anxiously waiting for him to tell me to come and pick it up. I think it was the pic of the zombie clown you ventilated that pushed me over the edge! Now I have to decide if the Delta Elite stays or goes...
Put a sprinco recoil rod in it!
...and so it begins - just picked it up and like everything about it, though the trigger could use some work. I hope it shoots as good as it looks and feels.
When loading make sure you have enough crimp to prevent set back. Set back can cause pressures to go way up and if you're already loading max a little set back can be trouble.
My gunsmith is a Glock armorer. He’s said to do a good trigger job on Glocks. The one he did on my G-40 leaves a lot to be desired.
What’s the best aftermarket Glock trigger? Too nice a gun to not have a better trigger.
DF
I’ve used a few different setups on Glock triggers and found my personal preference is the ghost evo elite 3.5 connector fitted for as little over travel as possible while still giving reliable function . The factory trigger bar suits my finger . Everything is polished . It’s smooth and more consistent in weight through the pull and resets fast . I use the factory springs but you could drop some weight there if desired .
I had an overwatch precision flat faced trigger setup with a ghost rocket connector that was smoother but had more overtravel than I wanted .
Thanks for that info.
Talked to my smith. I'm going to let him work on the G-40 some more. I did mention these aftermarket products. We'll see how it goes.
DF, I have not been able to turn a glock trigger into anything remotely similar to a 1911.
The best triggers I have made have just been spring changes, polishing, and in two cases I used the LS titanium strikers. Just polish the crap out of all the contact points with a dremel wheel and polishing compound, maybe replace the striker with a titanium but polish that as well, then buy some "competition springs"
DF, I have not been able to turn a glock trigger into anything remotely similar to a 1911.
The best triggers I have made have just been spring changes, polishing, and in two cases I used the LS titanium strikers. Just polish the crap out of all the contact points with a dremel wheel and polishing compound, maybe replace the striker with a titanium but polish that as well, then buy some "competition springs"
I know it'll never be 1911 quality, but needs to be better than it is. I've handled Glocks with better triggers, in fact have an older series .45 ACP Glock with a better trigger than this one. And it's stock, no polishing or work done.
You would think they would put their competition trigger in the G40, seems a few people have been unhappy with them. I am seriously looking at the springfield gun, the trigger is very mushy but I tried an XDM 45 acp with a powder river trigger in it, and its a whole lot better than any glock trigger I have ever been able to produce. The word on the street is that the G20/40 are about as accurate as the 10mm XDM's, the XDM grip for me is a bit more comfortable but its about the same diameter as the glock, there is no major difference in accuracy but some folks thing the 29 is a lot more accurate than either. The XDM does not have a MOS cut so no way forward on that front with the Springfield. The springfield has better case support...so its a toss up until you get to the $160 SA trigger replacement. Then the g20 looks a lot better even with its crappy trigger.
DF, I have not been able to turn a glock trigger into anything remotely similar to a 1911.
The best triggers I have made have just been spring changes, polishing, and in two cases I used the LS titanium strikers. Just polish the crap out of all the contact points with a dremel wheel and polishing compound, maybe replace the striker with a titanium but polish that as well, then buy some "competition springs"
I know it'll never be 1911 quality, but needs to be better than it is. I've handled Glocks with better triggers, in fact have an older series .45 ACP Glock with a better trigger than this one. And it's stock, no polishing or work done.
DF
Glock triggers always seem to be a 'crap-shoot'. I've owned ~25 of them, and no two triggers are exactly alike! That being said, I still like them, and there are tons of aftermarket options available.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
There are so many aftermarket options, I get lost in the fog.
Hopefully my smith can do something with it. I told him I didn't mind going with aftermarket parts if needed.
He's a good guy, we'll see what he can do.
DF
I never did install an aftermarket trigger in any of my Glocks. Some, like my gen 3 G19(25,000rds) got better with use, some like a Gen4 G21 with ~5K rds never did get any better. ?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
DF, I have not been able to turn a glock trigger into anything remotely similar to a 1911.
The best triggers I have made have just been spring changes, polishing, and in two cases I used the LS titanium strikers. Just polish the crap out of all the contact points with a dremel wheel and polishing compound, maybe replace the striker with a titanium but polish that as well, then buy some "competition springs"
I know it'll never be 1911 quality, but needs to be better than it is. I've handled Glocks with better triggers, in fact have an older series .45 ACP Glock with a better trigger than this one. And it's stock, no polishing or work done.
DF
Glock triggers always seem to be a 'crap-shoot'. I've owned ~25 of them, and no two triggers are exactly alike! That being said, I still like them, and there are tons of aftermarket options available.
I always thought the 3.5# connector was as good as it gets in a Glock.
There are so many aftermarket options, I get lost in the fog.
Hopefully my smith can do something with it. I told him I didn't mind going with aftermarket parts if needed.
He's a good guy, we'll see what he can do.
DF
A pretty basic/simple starting point for an improved Glock trigger is a factory "-" connector and an extra power trigger spring. (The extra power spring actually reduces trigger pull weight.) That gives a pretty substantial improvement in about 95% of the Glocks I've tried it in. A NiB coated striker can help too.
I like to use an overtravel stop of some sort too. Some of the aluminum triggers have overtravel screws built in. Another option which I like is the Lone Wolf ejector housing with a set screw in it, although I really don't like Lone Wolf much as a company and hate to recommend them, but that one part does work well.
Despite how interchangeable Glock parts are, when it comes to tuning the triggers just right I've found it best to treat each gun as it's own thing, and I usually end up with slightly different combinations of parts in each to get the trigger I want. On some I go so far as to adjust striker engagement by bending the trigger bar, and tightening the slide rails for more precise control over trigger engagement. (That doesn't help accuracy in a Glock, it just eliminates some variability in engagement so it can be tuned a little more crisp.)
With that said, the best drop-in trigger kit I've felt is the full Zev kit, but it's very expensive IMO. It does give a very nice trigger that is light with a crisp break. I don't use it on most of mine because of the cost, but if a guy is willing to spend the coin for the best, that's the direction I'd recommend in today's market.
DF, I have not been able to turn a glock trigger into anything remotely similar to a 1911.
The best triggers I have made have just been spring changes, polishing, and in two cases I used the LS titanium strikers. Just polish the crap out of all the contact points with a dremel wheel and polishing compound, maybe replace the striker with a titanium but polish that as well, then buy some "competition springs"
I know it'll never be 1911 quality, but needs to be better than it is. I've handled Glocks with better triggers, in fact have an older series .45 ACP Glock with a better trigger than this one. And it's stock, no polishing or work done.
DF
Glock triggers always seem to be a 'crap-shoot'. I've owned ~25 of them, and no two triggers are exactly alike! That being said, I still like them, and there are tons of aftermarket options available.
I always thought the 3.5# connector was as good as it gets in a Glock.
I've heard good things, but I've no experience with Glock aftermarket triggers. I have always owned the same old 5.5# triggers on mine. I only own 3 Glocks now, and my favorite, a Gen 3 19 has enough rounds through it(~25K) that it is actually pretty nice.
Last edited by 340boy; 04/27/19.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
I finally got out and ran a couple of boxes of ammo through my new XDM 10mm. I tried to limp wrist it with a loose 1 handed hold and everything and didn't have a single failure to feed or fire. It ran perfectly and as fast as I could pull the trigger.
Obviously a lot more testing to be done but for s brand new gun it looks very promising. I really like the way it feels and shoots.i love my glock 20 but it can hang up on occasion I think due to limp wristing. If I could get kkm to make a 40 barrel for my xdm I think I'd just sell the glock and go Springfield all the way.
Glock barrels handle cast bullets as well as any other barrel, and better than a lot of the aftermarket replacements in my experience. But that doesn't stop people repeating the same line they read on the internet somewhere, so the rumor continues.
Some years ago, we had a cops and cowboys fund raising shoot at our CAS range. Local city police and sheriffs deputies joined us for the shoot. I remember the discussions about their Glocks and our targets. Our group didn't want to use anything but soft lead, the consensus was Glock didn't recommend such.
Anyway, don't remember the final solution, just that most of those LEO officers were an embarrassment to gun handling. They were dropping mags, couldn't shoot worth a ___... All except one Natchitoches Parish Sheriff's deupty who was an artist with a 1911. That ole boy could flat shoot and it was a pleasure to watch him doing his thing. Wouldn't give a nickle for the rest of them.
Our cowboys made all but him look pretty bad. If I was gonna be a career LEO, I'd have my shooting skills perfected. Most of them just qualify because they have to, seem to have no pride in marksmanship. And, IMO, that's a shame. Doesn't have to be that way. I guess they're fortunate I'm not their chief or their sheriff.
DF
Must be a Louisiana thing. I've been a Texas law enforcement officer since 1987 and have never seen police shoot as badly as you say you did.
I have carried and shot a 4" S&W Mod 29 4 screw since I believe 1974 and a 3" Mod 629 for 15 -20 years. Love the guns but not loving the full power Keith loads any longer, they are killing my arthritic hands. So I think I'm about to try to sell or trade the 4" for a Glock 20 ( I've tried running the slides on several different brands and the Glock is diffently the easiest for my hands to work. The questions I have are where the best heavy load ( 220 gr)load data can be found. I did pick up 100 new Starline brass and a set of dies, stilllooking for bullets. I'm hearing Blue Dot as a good Powder, how about H110 or 296 . I normally load 2400 for heavy 44 loads and 700X for light loads. Also any thoughts on holsters? I thinking maybe a hipper with a thumb break. Thanks for any help .--- Mel
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
Thought I'd chime in here - for you guys wanting more out of a Glock 20, I just put a Bar-Sto barrel in the classifieds, because I'm already set up for mine and don't need it. I think the price is fair but make me an offer if you don't think so. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ar-sto-10mm-glock-20-barrel#Post13822372
I have carried and shot a 4" S&W Mod 29 4 screw since I believe 1974 and a 3" Mod 629 for 15 -20 years. Love the guns but not loving the full power Keith loads any longer, they are killing my arthritic hands. So I think I'm about to try to sell or trade the 4" for a Glock 20 ( I've tried running the slides on several different brands and the Glock is diffently the easiest for my hands to work. The questions I have are where the best heavy load ( 220 gr)load data can be found. I did pick up 100 new Starline brass and a set of dies, stilllooking for bullets. I'm hearing Blue Dot as a good Powder, how about H110 or 296 . I normally load 2400 for heavy 44 loads and 700X for light loads. Also any thoughts on holsters? I thinking maybe a hipper with a thumb break. Thanks for any help .--- Mel
...instead of running full Keith loads why not just go to a slightly faster burning powder and drop the velocity down to 11-1200 instead of 1400... Most of my .41 loads for the DA revolvers are in the 950-1200 range,,,
Also wondering if you have ever shot a G20 with heavy loads before...it is no joy...mine went down the road...as did a G29. The G40 is still here and much more pleasant to shoot...
I'm running 200 grain HC from Montana Bullet Works with Longshot powder and getting 1250.... Tried AAC-9Power Pistol and Unique and got the best velocities wit Longshot.
As to Glock triggers...my G40 started bulging cases REAL bad and after I took the gun apart I found that the guy who had it before me had installed a 3.5# Ghost Trigger unit and springs and had "forgot to tell me" nor had he included the original parts. He sent them to me and all of a sudden all the case bulging disappeared... Also then put in a Lone Wolf stainless guide rod and heavier spring....
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Thanks for the input Bob, and yes I've loaded all kinds of loads for the 44. And will not be abandoning it anytime soon, also have a 6" M29. I plan on shooting KK Alaska's Glock 20 before jumping totally in. I don't have a problem shooting my 1911 Kimber or LW Colts officers ACP so I'm guessing the Glock will work OK I must admit the idea of 15 rounds in hand does appeal when in the vicinity of some of our local furry friends. Although Phil proved a 9mm is enough with the right bullet. But alas I'm not Phil. --- Mel
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
As to Glock triggers...my G40 started bulging cases REAL bad and after I took the gun apart I found that the guy who had it before me had installed a 3.5# Ghost Trigger unit and springs and had "forgot to tell me" nor had he included the original parts. He sent them to me and all of a sudden all the case bulging disappeared... Also then put in a Lone Wolf stainless guide rod and heavier spring....
I have to think something else was going on there that you didn't catch. The trigger parts just don't have anything to do with bulging cases or firing out of battery. An extra-power striker spring works against the recoil spring a little bit, but those usually are only 1 lb extra, and aren't usually installed by people looking for a lighter trigger with a 3.5 lb connector.
Bob, what was the ghost trigger and springs doing? I guess the gun was gun firing out of battery?
From the reading I have done it is not only the recoil spring that retards the opening of the gun but also the trigger springs... The gun was not firing out of battery but the lighter springing of the gun allowed it to start opening before the pressure levels had dropped to a safe level.
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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