Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Heirloom 1960 Winchester Model 70

Somebody too excellent care of that gun. powdr

We each do what works for us regarding Pre '64 rifles. What works for me might not suit others. Free country and all that.
- If conditions are going to be tough, my Pre '64 rifles stay home. I have other rifles for those conditions. Stainless Classics in 'glass. So, I don't feel as if I am giving up anything, except the "cool factor" of hunting with a vintage rifle.
- I like my Pre '64 rifles in "correct" stocks.
- I like a pad, even if only to more easily stand the rifle in a corner. Plus, those steel butts are hard!
- I will not cut an uncut stock.
- I like Monte Carlo stocks for scope use.
- So, I end up buying "correct", but "previously molested" MC stocks if needed.

Well I finally got this 338 Win Mag out to the range. There's good news and bad news.

Good news...it groups very well. I only put about 12 rounds through it today, but it was shooting roughly 1" groups at 100 yards. The trigger feels smooth and overall I like the rifle.

Bad news...it is shooting about 8" to the right and I don't have enough scope adjustment left to catch it. The groups are tight but not close to the center.

I roughly bore-sighted it about a month ago with one of those universal kits. I didn't like the boresight (had to go almost all the way to the right on the dial), and unmounted everything. Upon close inspection, the holes in the receiver for the scope bases appear to angle slightly to the left, and mounting a straight dowel rod into the scope rings appeared to confirm this. Even a cursory glance at the front scope bell shows that it's angled a few degrees left.

So, I ordered a new in-chamber boresight just to make damn sure, and did my best to remount and relevel everything. Checked and rechecked that the Leupold DDs weren't to blame and that I hadn't mounted something cockeyed. Once again, I was able to get it boresighted, but had only about 5 clicks of adjustment shy of being all the way to the right.

Sure enough, got it to the range and it's grouping beautifully, but several inches to the right. Adjusting elevation was simple enough, but there's not enough scope adjustment for me to counter the scope's mounting angle. I don't really want to take a classic to a gunsmith and see about retapping the holes, so I guess I'm going to be looking at adjustable rear bases.

That will work. Or, I hear tell of some Burris rings with inserts to correct this problem. Never have needed to use them myself, but have read of others having success with them.

Edit to add link https://www.midwayusa.com/product/795738/burris-1-signature-dual-dovetail-rings

I believe Burris has discontinued the medium height Signature dual dovetail rings. That said, I think you can find some if you look around. In matte, the number you are looking for is 420561. I don't believe they made these in gloss, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Another choice is Burris Signature Zee rings on nice low steel bases (Warne or Leupold.) These look almost as nice as the Signature dual dovetail, and have the advantage of remove/return to zero. The dual dovetail is probably stronger, but the Zee rings are plenty damn strong.

I know from experience the Signature Zee mediums will work on a Pre '64 M70 and the bolt will clear the ocular of a Leupold. Comparing the Signature dual dove tail to the Signature Zee, both mediums, on Leupold bases, is about 0.030 lower for the dual dovetail. 0.030 ain't much.

Hope this helps,
Gun Doc

Will the Signature Zees take the offset inserts to correct the scope angle?

Yes, any Burris rings with "Signature" in the name take the inserts.
Note you will have to buy the offset inserts separately. You can shoot the rifle, determine what you need, or you can buy a "set" of all of them for a few bucks more. One pair of inserts, about $10, a set about $15.
Note you have to use a pair of inserts together, e.g. a +/- 0.005 pair, +/- 0.010 pair, etc.
If things are way off, you can use a pair in each ring, e.g. a +/- 0.020 set in each ring will give you 0.040 movement between the rings.
For typical Model 70 ring spacing, 4.625, a 0.005 pair of inserts will move your point of impact 3.9 inches at 100 yards. A 0.010 pair 7.8 inches, etc.
The best way is to center the scope (I usually use the "counting turns" or "counting clicks" method), mount the scope in "zero" inserts, shoot the rifle to see how far I am off, then go from there. You can use a collimater if you have one you trust, but the proof is where the bullets land.

I did a quick look on the 'net and found some of the medium matte Signature dual dovetail rings still for sale at a few places.

Hope this helps,
Gun Doc

Very helpful, thank you.

^^^^^^^
You are very welcome. Don't forget to center that scope before you get started. Scopes are a lot "happier" near their optical centers. If you are using an adjustable mount, you should take advantage of that.
I really like the Zee rings. But the dual dovetails are good too, especially if you don't care about remove/return to zero.
Also, welcome to the fire. There are some great guys on here. But there are some absolute, first class, card carrying butt holes too. A thick skin helps.
And again, that is one nice rifle, especially with the story that came with it.

Late to the party on this cool story. I have some m70's myself and treat them like GunDoc said in his post of April 9 above. What a great story.