ExC, I of course no nothing of your service, but, did learn from my Gramps [1940-1981, WW-II, Kor, Viet] who retired a roguey old ornery E-9 SGM that carrying a 1911 cocked and locked on a loaded chamber was the way they should be carried if you figure on using the damn thing. he had just retrieved it and it's leather holster from an old cedar chest of drawers, iirc it was a Colt or Springfield 45 ACP, his issue pistol.
I was 8 or 9 years old in Gramps' bedroom standing at his gun cabinets when that lesson was taught, he then swung his old big hand pointing across his rack of guns, M-1's, 30-06's and 30-30 hunting rifles, with a brace of 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, as well as his dads old '94 32-40 WCF, he reached down and pinched my chin pulling my face up, looked me dead in the eyes and said, "every weapon here is loaded, don't EVER! touch them" you want to shoot, come get me, and we'll go shoot! yessir I squeaked.
Something about lessons taught like that are NEVER forgotten, and that was near 50 years ago.
Please feel free to repost this message wherever you can. It must be repeated again and again, until it reaches every 1911 pistol user.
It reached every 1911 user about 30 years ago.
... except maybe for those rocket surgeons who, in more recent years, have shot themselves through ignorance, and the others who I fear are yet to follow them.
they were using glocks
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Pardon me for saying that you are WRONG. - Many or most of us old soldiers, sailors, LEOs, Marines, USAF vets, etc. have MANY things that we cannot talk about. - Personally, I prefer saying, "I cannot talk about that." or "no comment" to saying "NOYFB",which is the other obvious alternative. (I've been retired since 2006 & I still cannot discuss any number of diverse subjects from my AD era, even though it was long ago.)
MANY of us "old-timers" still cannot reveal where/when/in what job (and in some cases, not even what our MOS/AFSC & "job title" was) that we served because "NDA" have no expiration date.. - I know of a case where a former E-7 was "visited by government agents" & "strongly cautioned" for talking about his usual duties in "a place far away" & more than 5 years before. (It just so happens that I was stationed in that area & as far as I know NOTHING very sensitive, much less classified, was being done by any of the "allied forces training group" members.)
yours, tex
i always say, if i told you about that, i would next have to call a number at the FBI and you and i would have very intense conversations for the next 2 weeks with several MIB.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
I want to be the first to guess "Raisuli". Not real confident at this stage but starting to get a whiff so it's worth a flyer.
I am beginning to think Rufus may be right, as this is guy is starting to walk like a duck.
This whole "I have super secret information" is absolute and utter bullschidt, as we all know, but it is getting him the attention he seeks.
I don't know if he is pretending to be "Ponch" or "John" riding around playing 1970s highway patrol, and it really does not matter, as I never knew them to be the holders of any secret squirrel info, and there was never anything special about that agency anyway.
Rufus may be right, and another one of our "special children" may be back.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
Hello Tex, Yessir, it was a different time and way when we grew up, I heavily lament it's passing.
SargeMo, I can tell by reading you here the you done a hell of a job with those boys, Congrats on the hard work and proper steering, it has to make a man proud.
OEH, LOL, Yes Sir, I had the luxury of being reared in a 100% bullchit free environment, was tough as hell at times, but yes, after that, everything else in life that happened by is cake compared to that! Those guys, Gramps, Uncles and Dad knew exactly what they were doing getting a boy ready to be a man.
I'm shocked by the photographic examples given by MS. Saddened that a dickhead would have Marines sit outside and eat because they would not be separated from their weapons, and convinced that whatever garbage the Army is calling handgun training for the rank and file is woefully inadequate.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
I remember sitting in a classroom and having a instructor throw a cocked 1911 across the room to show us how safe it was. I watched a sgt shoot a steer between the eyes to put it out of its misery after being hit by a Dodge. (Open range) I like a 1911 because of memories. I like revolvers because it is easy to find the brass after the deed is done.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
I'm not a condition 2 guy. I don't even carry a 1911 regularly. But, If Charlie Miller and a bunch of Texas Rangers think condition 2 is the way to go, I say to each his own.
Charlie Miller: A Unique Ranger Jim Wilson - September 23, 2010 Charlie Miller: A Unique Ranger By Sheriff Jim Wilson, ,Handgun Editor I like to search the history of the American West for real characters. And nowhere can more of those characters be found than in the rosters of the Texas Rangers. For most of its history the Texas Ranger Service has attracted individuals, talented shootists, and pure-bred characters like no other law enforcement outfit. And among the files of the Rangers none of them stands out like Charles Edward Miller.
Miller is supposed to have been born in Frio County, Texas, in June 1898. However, some authorities think that he may have been born much earlier than this, possibly as early as 1880. You see, in later years, when he reached the mandatory retirement age of the Texas Rangers, Miller came up with a corrected birth certificate that made him a little younger, and they kept him on for a few more years. Some of the older Rangers swear that Miller pulled this stunt on two different occasions and was actually closer to 80 years old when he finally was retired from the Ranger Service.
We do know that Miller enlisted in the Texas Rangers for the first time in December 1919, going to work for Captain Davis at Del Rio. Prior to that he had been a deputy sheriff at San Antonio. And in about 1921 he was sent out to Presidio to replace Lee Trimble when Lee got shot from ambush and needed time to recuperate. Except for some 11 months, Miller would serve as a Texas Ranger for over 50 years. That 11-month lapse in his service was the time when he decided to chase a better paycheck and quit the Rangers in favor of the U. S. Prohibition Service. Along with Lone Wolf Gonzaullas and other ex-Rangers, Charlie spent his time chasing bootleggers and liquor smugglers and closing down speakeasies. However, Charlie was an outdoorsman and he got tired of running around the big cities playing cocktail cop; he soon turned in his federal badge and went back to the Rangers.
By 1923 Miller was a Ranger in Headquarters Company, commanded by the famous Captain Frank Hamer. In those days Captain Hamer used the men of Headquarters Company as sort of troubleshooters. These Rangers were the cream of the crop and were sent out on special detail and assignments wherever their extra talents were needed. Rangers Dan Westbrook and Lee Trimble, who knew Miller back in those days, told me that Miller fit right in with Hamer's idea of what a good officer ought to be.
WHAT A GOOD OFFICER SHOULD BE In 1932 Miriam A. Ferguson was elected governor of Texas. Her husband had already been impeached and removed from the governor's office, so he ran his wife for the job. Caught in the grips of the Great Depression, the people of Texas elected her. In retrospect, Mrs. Ferguson turned out to be one of the best governors that money could buy. In no time at all, she fired every one of the good Rangers and replaced them with political appointees,ex-bartenders, and other sorry trash. However, packing a Ranger badge was not over for Miller. The Schreiner family at Kerrville, Texas, hired Charlie as a Special Texas Ranger to be in charge of security on their various ranching operations, which included the famed YO Ranch. For nearly 20 years Miller worked security for the Schreiner family and protected their property and interests. During that time he encountered a pair of game poachers and trespassers who thought they could come and go on the ranch with immunity. They even got so bold as to try to ambush a game warden. The next time they laid a trap for the game warden, they caught Miller in it instead. At least one of the game violators died in the short, hot little gunfight that followed.
Miller's Colt M1911 In 1951 Miller reinstated back into the regular Ranger force and went to work for Captain A. Y. Allee down in the Rio Grande Valley of South Texas. In later years I was with Captain Allee when they put one of Miller's pistols into the Texas Ranger Museum at Waco. Allee always spoke very highly of Miller, and I remember him telling me that he suspected that Miller had probably killed seven or eight men during his career and, according to Allee, had been well justified in every case. However, when our friend Ben Choate said he wished that Miller's old 1911 could talk, Allee turned a little pale, shook his head, and said, "Oh no, boys, oh no!"
One time, probably back in the '50s, Miller and a bunch of other Rangers got called into the main DPS headquarters for some firearms training. Now you can imagine Miller walking around in his white shirt and khaki britches with his rather pronounced belly sticking out over the grip of his 1911 on halfcock with the safety tied down and all. One of the young firearms instructors finally just couldn't stand it any longer and walked up to Miller and asked, "Mr. Miller, isn't that thing dangerous?" Charlie just glanced up at the boy, the way your banker does when you're trying to borrow money and said, "Son, if the damned old thing wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't be wearing it!"
Another time Ranger Miller entered a cafe near the banks of the Rio Grande and asked for a cup of coffee. Unfortunately, the family that owned the cafe had gotten out of sorts with the Rangers so none of them would wait on Miller. Charlie asked again for service, as nicely as he knew how, and was again ignored. Well, Miller could see that they were undoubtedly busy, as well as being a bit ill-mannered, so he just helped himself. He produced his old 1911 and shot a hole in the metal coffee urn that sat on the bar behind the lunch counter. Getting a cup and saucer, Charlie got his coffee and enjoyed its refreshment. They say that cafe pretty well emptied out as folks suddenly remembered the various pieces of pressing business they had. They say that the head of the Texas Rangers, when he stopped laughing, gave Ranger Miller a few days of disciplinary leave.
My last Charlie Miller tale is one that if it isn't true, it ought to be. And it involves a gunfight right down on the banks of the Rio Grande. Charlie was after an outlaw and caught up with him in the vega of the river, in Val Verde County just south of the area where I used to serve as sheriff. In a flurry of action the Ranger and the outlaw wounded each other. As he lay in the brush, Miller called over to his assailant and told him that he knew they were both wounded. Miller suggested that they stand up and finish this fight like men so that one of them could get to a doctor. In later years Miller would just shake his head and state, "And you know what? That damned fool actually stood up!"
The wheels of bureaucracy and the various birth certificates caught up with Miller in 1968, and he was retired from the Texas Rangers at a fancy party on the Schreiner's YO Ranch. My friend Bob Favor replaced Miller in Brady, Texas, and Charlie retired to a life of looking after his few good horses. The old warrior passed away in 1971.
According to those who knew him, Miller represented the best of the entire Texas Ranger force. Dan Westbrook, Lee Trimble, A. Y. Allee, and Bob Favor all remember him as a great Ranger who was a great officer and toug
her than the toughest outlaws ever thought about being. He was instrumental in getting the Texas Rangers to consider the Colt 1911 pistol as a serious law enforcement firearm, and the pistol was standard carry for most Rangers long before it became so popular among the action-shooting crowd.
Butch Purvis, whose father and grandfather were Rangers, remembers Miller coming to their home and putting on shooting demonstrations with his 1911 and his .357 Magnum revolver. More especially, Butch remembers how kind Charlie was to every child and how friendly he was to the good citizens of Texas. There was no SWAT-team mentality in Miller's makeup. He was just proud to be a Texas Ranger and was able to cover the ground that he stood on.
Last edited by local_dirt; 04/16/19.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
I'm going to tell a story on myself here. Back in the early 90s I went to a LE refresher course that included a bit of shooting on an indoor range. The instructor was a big model 59 S&W guy and like a lot of them, thought nobody should be carrying anything else. I showed up with a 1945 Ithaca 1911 and he about peed down his leg.
He had first insisted that I go back to my agency and borrow a d a auto to run the course with. I told him I had paid my tuition and to go pack sand, a 1911 was what I. Carried and a 1911 was what I was going to shoot. I knew my Sheriff would back me up on that. Anyway after much pissing and moaning he agreed to let me shoot my obsoleto War Horse on his course but insisted that I start each stage from The holster in condition 2. I said your game your rules, I'll do it.
So I shot their whole damn course from condition 2 from The holster. Clean their damn clocks too , by about 25 points. And when that class was over I had the pleasure of doing an evaluation sheet on the dumbass which is exactly what I painted him to be. I said anybody who would require a 1911 shooter to begin each course of fire from condition 2, didn't have any business teaching firearms.
Ass clown didn't like me much after that needless to say.
Last edited by SargeMO; 04/16/19. Reason: Clarity
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
I find it interesting the sheer numbers of "experts" who insist that a person do something their way, as if it is the only way. Their dogma is the only dogma, and anyone else is doing it wrong. Muzzle up, vs down, Appendix carry vs OWB, 1911s vs Glock, it doesn't matter.
Slight Derail..
How about the retarded "safety circle" dance steps that the NRA was teaching? At the first ever NRA LE tactical shooting Instructor course,(you had to already be an instructor in multiple disciplines to attend) where we were asked for feed back, they were none too happy when I told them that I thought it was freaking stupid to be teaching the dance, pivot step moves that have now become a commonly seen part of range theatrics.
My train of thought was that we barely had enough time to teach troops to be safe and competent shooters, with our ammo and range time budgets constantly being cut, in favor of other administrative nonsense, so why were we teaching stupid pivots and dance moves.
Guys were simply going through the motion and not actually seeing anything anyways. They were doing it to look cool, and not seeing a dang thing. I suggested that they simply observed their surroundings while keeping their gun pointed in a safe direction. Not doing exaggerated dance steps that did literally nothing but look good for unknowing admin types. But even the name "safety circle" sounds great to ignorant admin type who never were switched on street cops. admin types loved the dance steps because is sounded safe and looked cool though, so the dumb crap got adopted...
There is more than one way to do things. If someone wants to shoot Weaver or Isosceles, or some combination/variation, fine by me.
If someone wants to carry their 1911 other than cocked and locked, Not my circus, not my monkeys. There is no super secret data that the government is holding back in regards to people "dying in the streets" because they carried a 1911 in condition 2. That is pure BS. Plain and simple.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
For my part, I carry cocked and locked. Always have. But I have shot, carried field stripped, changed mags, etc. for so long, I could literally do it blindfolded. First thing my gun hand goes to when I draw a 1911 is the safety. It's automatic.
There's lots of talk about Texas Rangers here. If Charlie Miller was successful the way he carried one, then I'd call that the end of the discussion.
I have known many Texas Rangers and worked with them. I never knew one to carry anything but a single 1911. They carry them cocked and locked.
A friend of mine is the last Texas Ranger killed in the line of duty. He carried a 1911... cocked and locked. That didn't add to his being shot. A poorly thought through plan of rescue of a kidnapped girl, and a lucky shot by the bad guy is what killed Stan.
In a nutshell, a bad guy kidnapped a little girl in Horseshoe Bay. He entered the house and killed the maid/nanny... (I dated her some. Pretty little redhead girl)
My friend, Stan Guffy and another Ranger, Aycock, took the back seat out of a Crown Vic and got back there, hunched down. The car was delivered to the house as a getaway vehicle for the bad guy.
When the bad guy came out with the little girl, Stan and Aycock sprang out of the back seat. Stan hollered "Texas Rangers! Drop the gun!" The bad guy fired instantly, and hit Stan between the eyes with a .44 magnum. Ranger Aycock instantly shot and killed the bad guy. But it was too late for Stan. He was dead before he hit the ground. Stan should have just got out, and shot the bad guy...
The little girl was saved. Her last name was Whitehead. Their family were a big money ranching family. Raised Herefords. But, it seems that sometimes a person isn't intended to live long enough to grow up...
That little girl and her parents were killed when the private airplane her dad was flying crashed and killed them all a few years later.
Sorry to ramble... But some may find that story interesting.
For my part, I carry cocked and locked. Always have. But I have shot, carried field stripped, changed mags, etc. for so long, I could literally do it blindfolded. First thing my gun hand goes to when I draw a 1911 is the safety. It's automatic.
There's lots of talk about Texas Rangers here. If Charlie Miller was successful the way he carried one, then I'd call that the end of the discussion.
I have known many Texas Rangers and worked with them. I never knew one to carry anything but a single 1911. They carry them cocked and locked.
A friend of mine is the last Texas Ranger killed in the line of duty. He carried a 1911... cocked and locked. That didn't add to his being shot. A poorly thought through plan of rescue of a kidnapped girl, and a lucky shot by the bad guy is what killed Stan.
In a nutshell, a bad guy kidnapped a little girl in Horseshoe Bay. He entered the house and killed the maid/nanny... (I dated her some. Pretty little redhead girl)
My friend, Stan Guffy and another Ranger, Aycock, took the back seat out of a Crown Vic and got back there, hunched down. The car was delivered to the house as a getaway vehicle for the bad guy.
When the bad guy came out with the little girl, Stan and Aycock sprang out of the back seat. Stan hollered "Texas Rangers! Drop the gun!" The bad guy fired instantly, and hit Stan between the eyes with a .44 magnum. Ranger Aycock instantly shot and killed the bad guy. But it was too late for Stan. He was dead before he hit the ground. Stan should have just got out, and shot the bad guy...
The little girl was saved. Her last name was Whitehead. Their family were a big money ranching family. Raised Herefords. But, it seems that sometimes a person isn't intended to live long enough to grow up...
That little girl and her parents were killed when the private airplane her dad was flying crashed and killed them all a few years later.
Sorry to ramble... But some may find that story interesting.
I read a version of that story in Joaquin Jackson's book. Ballsy plan. Sorry that your friend was killed, but he had rollers of steel for putting himself in the middle of that rescue.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
For my part, I carry cocked and locked. Always have. But I have shot, carried field stripped, changed mags, etc. for so long, I could literally do it blindfolded. First thing my gun hand goes to when I draw a 1911 is the safety. It's automatic.
There's lots of talk about Texas Rangers here. If Charlie Miller was successful the way he carried one, then I'd call that the end of the discussion.
I have known many Texas Rangers and worked with them. I never knew one to carry anything but a single 1911. They carry them cocked and locked.
A friend of mine is the last Texas Ranger killed in the line of duty. He carried a 1911... cocked and locked. That didn't add to his being shot. A poorly thought through plan of rescue of a kidnapped girl, and a lucky shot by the bad guy is what killed Stan.
In a nutshell, a bad guy kidnapped a little girl in Horseshoe Bay. He entered the house and killed the maid/nanny... (I dated her some. Pretty little redhead girl)
My friend, Stan Guffy and another Ranger, Aycock, took the back seat out of a Crown Vic and got back there, hunched down. The car was delivered to the house as a getaway vehicle for the bad guy.
When the bad guy came out with the little girl, Stan and Aycock sprang out of the back seat. Stan hollered "Texas Rangers! Drop the gun!" The bad guy fired instantly, and hit Stan between the eyes with a .44 magnum. Ranger Aycock instantly shot and killed the bad guy. But it was too late for Stan. He was dead before he hit the ground. Stan should have just got out, and shot the bad guy...
The little girl was saved. Her last name was Whitehead. Their family were a big money ranching family. Raised Herefords. But, it seems that sometimes a person isn't intended to live long enough to grow up...
That little girl and her parents were killed when the private airplane her dad was flying crashed and killed them all a few years later.
Sorry to ramble... But some may find that story interesting.
I remember reading about that and also about that family getting killed in the plain crash too. Bad deal!
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
For my part, I carry cocked and locked. Always have. But I have shot, carried field stripped, changed mags, etc. for so long, I could literally do it blindfolded. First thing my gun hand goes to when I draw a 1911 is the safety. It's automatic.
There's lots of talk about Texas Rangers here. If Charlie Miller was successful the way he carried one, then I'd call that the end of the discussion.
I have known many Texas Rangers and worked with them. I never knew one to carry anything but a single 1911. They carry them cocked and locked.
A friend of mine is the last Texas Ranger killed in the line of duty. He carried a 1911... cocked and locked. That didn't add to his being shot. A poorly thought through plan of rescue of a kidnapped girl, and a lucky shot by the bad guy is what killed Stan.
In a nutshell, a bad guy kidnapped a little girl in Horseshoe Bay. He entered the house and killed the maid/nanny... (I dated her some. Pretty little redhead girl)
My friend, Stan Guffy and another Ranger, Aycock, took the back seat out of a Crown Vic and got back there, hunched down. The car was delivered to the house as a getaway vehicle for the bad guy.
When the bad guy came out with the little girl, Stan and Aycock sprang out of the back seat. Stan hollered "Texas Rangers! Drop the gun!" The bad guy fired instantly, and hit Stan between the eyes with a .44 magnum. Ranger Aycock instantly shot and killed the bad guy. But it was too late for Stan. He was dead before he hit the ground. Stan should have just got out, and shot the bad guy...
The little girl was saved. Her last name was Whitehead. Their family were a big money ranching family. Raised Herefords. But, it seems that sometimes a person isn't intended to live long enough to grow up...
That little girl and her parents were killed when the private airplane her dad was flying crashed and killed them all a few years later.
Sorry to ramble... But some may find that story interesting.
I read a version of that story in Joaquin Jackson's book. Ballsy plan. Sorry that your friend was killed, but he had rollers of steel for putting himself in the middle of that rescue.
I knew and worked with Joaquin Jackson too.
While he was still a Ranger, and not a gun control fanatic.
he had just retrieved it and it's leather holster from an old cedar chest of drawers, iirc it was a Colt or Springfield 45 ACP, his issue pistol.
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