Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Winchester M70 - is this a good bedding job?

I don't know anything about bedding a rifle. I just had a Winchester M70 Weather Extreme with an aluminum bedding block glass bedded by a friend. I now have the gun back, and have no way to evaluate the quality of the job. I was kind'a expecting to see a thin film of epoxy on the top of the bedding block, but maybe the bedding block mates so well to the button of the action it squeezed out all the epoxy? I don't actually know . . . . My friend is a good guy and does careful work. I am just not sure how effective the bedding may be. I'd be happy to hear comments and get some education on bedding.

Look fine to me. My ew is all factory, and shoots several different factory loads at or near moa. Shoot yours and see. I'll bet it's a keeper.

Looks good from here as well.

Looks like an excellent job to me.....Good luck....Hb

You could shoot it.....give you an idea there. Looks clean.

Looks like he did a fine job. Clean! With the application of the bedding material at the start of the barrel channel and at the rear action screw, there actually won’t be much, if any, actual contact with the bedding block. The barreled action will bottom out on the epoxy before making contact with the aluminum.

Looks good. Proof will be when you shoot it.

To me, its all relative. I had my Rem 700 bedded in my Grayboe and it "didn't look all that great". However, I didn't care what it looked like after I shot it. There are some spots on mine along the action at the top of the stock where it could have used a little more bedding material. But the sucker shoots .5 MOA at 200 yards and now I'm less worried about that slight void.

The tang area on M70’s is a mystery to me, for whatever reason.

The only proof is how it shoots.

Looks like a clean job. Id make sure the action screw holes have clearance and that your mag box isnt tight. Other than that, you should be able to tell if its a good job by how the barreled action pops into the stock and how it feels when you torque the actuon screws down. Then shoot it and see what kind of accuracy you are getting. The real proof will be on the target.

Does your friend know that you submitted this post in which you publicly question the quality of his work?

That's the first thing that came to my mind when I read the OP. 2nd thing was that it looks pretty good.

Looks good. Did he tape off the sides, front and bottom of the recoil lug?

What does that matter? He didn't name his friend.

Well, if it was me, I would ask my friend to educate me before asking anyone else and I would be thankful he was willing to do it for me. And it is obvious that the work is nicely done.

Lastly, it is pretty clear that the rifle has yet to be tested.

Looks fine to excellent, depending on how it fits. Shooting only matters as an evaluation if it's accuracy was known prior...


Appears to have the thin layer on the block....

Zero reason to relieve the lug using tape. Heavy kicking wood stock, sure.

Why worry about the guy's friend unless it's you?

Goodness.

The proof of the pudding is "How does it shoot?"

I love pudding.

Bedding cain't be "seen".

Hint...…………………..

MtnBoomer - now that you point it out, I do see a thin film of epoxy on the bedding block. Its very thin so as to be almost transparent, but it is visible as a slight grey discoloration over the surface of the metal. Thanks.

And, while everyone says this looks like a really good bedding job, I am still gonna tell my friend he sux, just so he doesn't get a big head. :-)

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

I would want clearance behind the tang and under the recoil lug. I would never bed the tapered portion of the barrel. Not my gun though. GD

greydog - thanks for your input. I am just trying to learn, here, so could you please explain the mechanics behind your preferences?

Thanks!

Nothing should contact at the rear except the rear surface of the recoil lug. The recoil lug needs to be clear on the bottom to ensure the action is pulled down against the bed at the location of the screws.
Now, there is no way I am saying my way is always best but these are the rules for bedding I was taught fifty years ago and they have always worked. Bedding should be stress-free with contact in the appropriate places and nowhere else. The clearance at the rear of the tang is always important to prevent chipping of the stock, if nothing else. Clearance at the bottom of the lug prevent interference.
There are times when bedding the bottom of the lug is probably advisable. When the guard screw enters the lug at the front of the action, the bottom of the lug is designed as the contact point. If the screw goes into the lug, at the very front of the receiver, this is also the only time I might bed the breech end of the barrel but if there is any portion of the receiver in front of the lug, I won't bed the barrel because I have found it to frequently create a rifle which tends to shoot vertical groups. Again, all of this is my opinion only and many will vehemently disagree with it. For myself, I've been at this long enough to never say "x" is always better than "y" and if others have success with different methodology, it's pretty hard for me to argue with it. I have my theories and they have their's. GD

greydog - Thanks for your explanation! It is very helpful. And, I understand there is more than one way to skin the cat.

I recently had a bedding job done on my Bell & Carlson stocked Rem700 7mm/08. I reckon it came up damn good!

It looks very good. Again, I would not bed any portion of the barrel on a 700 but that's just me. The 700 is very nice to work with; round, smooth, and the tang is not inlet into the stock but just lies on top. The Model 70 is much more complex with different planes and contours which must be dealt with. GD

Bedding only rates a critique,after having been shot.

Hint...............

dingo - that looks really good.

Pretty sweet bedding job dingo. Looks like whoever did that one, knew what they were doing. As for the OP, as others have stated, "there's many ways to skin the cat". That's very true when it comes to glass bedding. Greydog hits on some good points and then not so much on others. But then again, he also said others wouldn't agree with him. I guess he was also right about that...

I did say others would disagree but neglected to say, if they did, they were probably wrong GD

It may prove sufficient, But If I was doing mine or a friends
I would continue the epoxy the whole way along the sides of the receiver., like Dingoes clean example.

Dingo’s bedding is a work of art.

I’m still trying to learn - what benefit does epoxy at the sides of the receiver provide?

I don't know any smith worth his salt who doesn't bed the whole length receiver.
Those who take their stock inletting seriously talk about 'full contact' bedding walnut and syn. stocks.

Some will even skim bed walnut stocks with epoxy cause it gives true full contact.

If anyone has an issue with that ,..they can take it up with D'Arcy Echols Co. and set them straight about
how you bed a hunting rifle. ..

Mel Forbes -NULA, also beds the whole length of the barrel channel.

The only thing you "shoot" is your mouth and Imagination.

Hint..................

Thanks mate !


Took my newly bedded 7mm/08 to the range today and it certainly showed promise. I'm not sure what happened with the flyer though.

Sure I'm wrong. Thats why my rifles shoot like chit.....:

Improved Cylinder is "promise"?

Hint................

When bedding Remington 700's (722, 721, etc), it was long considered proper to provide cearance along the sides of the receiver so that the only points of contact were at the receiver ring, behind the recoil lug, and under the tang. This was usually accomplished with a couple layers of masking tape. The thinking was, since the stock would deflect along the sides under recoil forces, there was a chance of minute stress points when it didn't return to the same place (keep in mind, this was within the context of precision rifle building) and zero contact was consistent. This system still works very well but, as has been amply demonstrated in the intervening fifty years, it probably is not critical and full bedding of the action works every bit as well and looks better for the customer. I have, over the years, bedded rifles both ways and lost matches to rifles bedded either way!

When bedding Model 70's, many did things the same way but did bed under the center screw as well; to the extent that they could, anyway. There is not a lot of surface there. Others chose to eschew contact at the center screw location and bedded at only the receiver ring and tang. Clearance was provided at the bottom of the recoil lug although the sides and front of the lug were, and are, frequently bedded according to the whim of the one doing the bedding. There seems to be little difference in performance and I like to clear the front, sides and bottom just to make stock removal and replacement easier.
I like to incorporate the center screw as part of the bedding system rather than just a support for the trigger guard and will do so by using a pillar at that location. As it happens, I have a Winchester Model 70 which has three different stocks, all of which are bedded differently so I can make a pretty good direct comparison. The Rifle is a short action, push-feed Model 70 which has been bored and re-threaded at the receiver ring to 1 1/16"x 16 TPI. I retro-fitted bumps at the rear of the bolt to close up tolerance and provide better alignment. It has been fitted with numerous barrels but, for the comparison, I used a particularily good shooting 308 barrel. This is a 23" barrel, gain twist (15-13.5) and contoured to .750 at the muzzle.
The stocks are:
1. A walnut, modified-factory stock which has been fitted with an aluminum bedding block with the 2- round magazine integral to the block. The fore arm is flat and 2 1/4 inches wide and the butt is shaped to ride the bags better. I cobbled this together for a one-time foray into Hunter Class BR. It is skim bedded with Acraglas over the block and uses all three screws. Shooting 150 Sierras it would group five shots at 3/8 or better and was capable of shooting 50's with a good x-count.
2. A laminated, Marksman style, prone stock which is pillar bedded at all three screw locations and is bedded all along the sides. In this stock, using the same barrel, it will group five into 3/8 and I can usually stay under 1 moa prone, with a sling, for five shots.
3. The third stock is a glass/carbon fiber silohuette stock from Steve Wooster from Washington state. This one is bedded at the receiver ring and tang only (no middle screw) and, off the bench, will shoot groups just about the same for five shots with the same barrel. With the barrel I use for MS shooting (a 26" Krieger, 13 twist), it isn't quite as good but still shoots about 3/4 moa. Sadly, my inability to hit my own butt, with both hands, prevents me from doing what the rifle will, offhand.
All this shows is that various bedding systems, assuming similar quality, will produce similar results if all else is equal. In other words, the real measure of a bedding job is on the target.
My best shooting Model 70 prone rifle uses a bedding block, has a solid bottom and is bedded ahead of the trigger group only; the tang floats. The second best one is bedded for the whole action and has a magazine and I suspect the real difference between them is that one has a better barrel. GD

greydog,

Your DUMB Fhuqktitude is plum amazing. Congratulations?!?

Hint...................

greydog - Again, great information. Thanks again for being willing to teach.

Hey Dip Stick,
It's plain you don't have a clue but you can probably buy one. When you do, get back to us. Maybe show us a picture of a fish. GD

Slow morning.



Hint................

That's a very handsome fish. Stick to what you know and you'll be alright! What's the right word? Oh, right, laffin'! GD

greycog,

You couldn't staple paper,by yourself. Congratulations?!?

You poor poor(literally) Retarded Kchunt.

Hint.................

Hard to screw up a dab.

when I bedded my Mk-V Wbys in synthetics, I threw out the rules and just bedded the whole action. with no 'taped' clearances anywhere,
including about 2" of barrel...if I did it 'wrong' and something was supposed to go wrong ( that didn't),
can someone please tell me what I missed out on.

It was a snug fit, that took careful effort to get the barrelled action out of the stock, ..but so what I say.

I learnt in engineering if I don't want something to move or rattle loose, then don't give it clearance or loose tolerance.
Hence why we would machine fit each individual bolt in high torque drive coupling installations, that were regularly subject
to shock loading over 16 hr days 365 days a year.

As far as M70 centre (3rd) action screws go,.. Why did Win. introduce that feature..?
you can still build an accurate rifle without employing it.

If you read carefully, you'll notice I say bedding methods often at the whim of the one doing the bedding. The MK V is an action which is a little different with the screw going into the bottom of the lug. It is often best to bed lugs like this at the bottom since that is where the screw tension is. The rest of the receiver is not all that rigid and how it is bedded probably doesn't matter a whole lot but I generally bedded the whole thing. I still like clearance at the sides and front of the lug for two reasons. First; it was easier to remove and re[lace. Second; the sharp edges of the lug could shave bedding material when you put the thing together and this debris could keep the lug from bottoming out. I'll confess also that I usually bedded some of the barrel shank on them . There was no clearance required at the tang because it just sat on top of the stock anyway. Sako rifles actions were another which had the lug right at the front with the screw going into the lug and they were treated much like the front of the Weatherby. The sako needed clearance at the tang though or the stock would chip or split behind the tang.
Who knows why Winchester chose to go with two-piece bottom metal and the third screw? bedded in the wood, that third screw can't do much more than hold up the front of the trigger guard; just like the one on the Ruger 77. Still, it's there and I kind of like to use it. I feel like it adds to the integrity of the bedding system although, as I have demonstrated, it probably doesn't make any difference.
'Stick, I think what makes your missives such great reading is your command of the English language. Do you photoshop those fish? GD

Endless display of fish, partially submerged rifles, fishing poles, the same bear wearing a baseball hat, pictures that were posted 15 years ago and insults never does get boring. What a psycopath

If bedding the bottom of the Lug is best (not just a whim)

what are the real world negative effects of not bedding the bottom face of the Mk-V lug..?




Sharp edges; ...Theres something called metal preparation, do that properly and I don't see a problem,
I certainly did not encounter any bedding material being shaved off after repeated assembly-disassembly,
and that was without having to alter the lugs in anyway..but every job needs to be assessed on an individual basis.

I am inclined to say the type of bedding material one uses can also effect the propensity for such to occur.

BTW: I did at some point temporarily put a bedded stock on another mK V barrelled action just to see/experiment how it would fit and shoot,
(without custom bedding it to that particular metal),..the fit was still snug, and I did notice a couple ever so very slight streak lines
travelling down in the corners of the lug recess...but just a few reassemblies meant that once that rather minuscule amount of
bedding material was gone, ..shaving no longer occurred.

There are no negative effects to not bedding the bottom providing there is support forward and aft of the lug. I know I have done Sakos both ways with acceptable results. Look, if you have no issues with bedding the lug tight all around, then, by all means, do so. As I said, I will, now and then, do that as well but my preference is to not . Most of my glass-bedding methodology was established forty-five years ago but I still experiment a little from time to time. Back in the seventies, when all stocks were wood and glass stocks were just starting to come into use, I probably bedded a dozen or more every week. Virtually every barrel job also got bedded, at the customer's request, so I did a lot. I'm not trying to critique other's methods or preferences and I'm not trying to say my way is the only way, I'm just telling what has worked well for me for over forty years of rifle building. There is certainly no requirement for you to do things my way.
I pointed out my reasons for preferring clearance. If you have, in your experience, found those reasons to be invalid, well, there you have it. GD

I did not read your responses as suggesting your way is the only way...I understood very well that variations of methods can be subject
to personal whims.

My question specifically related to you saying that its best to bed the bottom face of the Mk-V lug.

that seems to suggest there is some technical - scientifically explainable reason why its best to do it that way,
just saying ..'because that is where screw tension is '.. , sounds somewhat vague.



If I was only bedding the action I would be sure to also contact bed the bottom of the lug,
but I have to say If I was also bedding a good part of the barrel with the action, the option of creating
some clearance on the bottom of the lug would not really bother me, for obvious reason.



I really don't mind people that do, as long as its healthy discussion ,combined with good questions and good answers
where there's a chance or opportunity for readers to learn something.

I appreciate the effort you have put into your posts.

You are right; if there is significant support fore and aft, clearance at the bottom of the lug might even be the best way to go about it. In the end, any system which is stress free is likely to work out well.
There are some actions which are more challenging than others and the Winchester is one of them. The Ruger 77 is another. Neither one is difficult to get to shoot well, the bedding is just a little complex due to the shape of the bottom of the receiver.
One friend and fellow BR competitor, Bob Forslund, was positively obsessive about bedding techniques and theory. I listened to him because either he or his brother usually won. This was before the glue-in became the default method for setting up a BR rifle and most were conventionally bedded. One day he demonstrated what he considered to be a good bedding job by removing the barreled action between shots and firing a five shot group of about 1/4 inch. On this rifle, if he removed the screws, he could just tip the rifle over and the action would fall right out. This action was a flat bottomed action with and angled front screw and was built by Bob Forslund. By the way, he also admitted he had seen bedding jobs which he would have considered to be completely wrong which shot every bit as well as his. In the end, if it works, it works. GD

It's reliability...fhuqks with MANY heads.

Hint....................