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Been looking at a new MkV in 7mm Weatherby that has been languishing on my dealer's shelf for years. I've never been much of a 7mm guy, but I find myself thinking pretty hard about (this) one.
What kind of velocities with different loads are you guys seeing, and how do you like the caliber?
Thanks for any and all info.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Are the Weatherby's still 1-10 twist for their 7mm Wby's?
Semper Fi
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Are the Weatherby's still 1-10 twist for their 7mm Wby's? I just checked their site, and they are indeed listed as a 1-10. That's a bit slow for a 7mm??
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James Elroy Flecker
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I enjoyed my MkV until the barrel begin to go at around 3,000 rounds and a friend bought it. 2 best loads and always well under an inch were 1 grain less than max of IMR 4831 with 160 grain Partitions and 1 grain less than max of IMR 7828 with 170 grain Grand Slams. Both loads used Fed. 215M primers.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I had a 7mm Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight for a while. The 1-10 twist shot fine with the 175 Hornady Spire Point here in Montana at 4000 feet above sea level at typical fall hunting temperature of 35 degrees. Also saw my companion's Mark V work fine on a bull elk at 8500 feet in Colorado, with the same bullet.
I used the 160 Partition in my rifle for hunting, which shot very well at around 3200 fps.
In general, I haven't found the Weatherby freebore to work all that well with high-BC boattails, but can't say that's a hard and fast rule.
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John Steinbeck
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I have a 7mm Wby in a Mark V with the 24" buggy whip barrel. Took me a while go figure out what it likes, but it shoots really well consistently with 160 grain Accubond over RL 25 for an average velocity around 3,100 fps.
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I should add, really well consistently for that gun is an inch or better at 100 yrds. My son loves to use it and has killed several elk with it.
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Campfire Savant
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I always shot 140’s in the 7mm Weatherby I had. They were great!
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Thanks for the info, folks! Appreciated. 
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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I had a 7mm Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight for a while. The 1-10 twist shot fine with the 175 Hornady Spire Point here in Montana at 4000 feet above sea level at typical fall hunting temperature of 35 degrees. Also saw my companion's Mark V work fine on a bull elk at 8500 feet in Colorado, with the same bullet.
I used the 160 Partition in my rifle for hunting, which shot very well at around 3200 fps.
In general, I haven't found the Weatherby freebore to work all that well with high-BC boattails, but can't say that's a hard and fast rule. JB, Thanks for the information. It would be nice to play with the 175s, but I would be more than happy with a 160gr Accubond or Partition or who knows what else, for that matter. Part of the fun, right?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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I own 2 Mark Vs in 7mm Weatherby. One is a Howa-built with a 24” hammer forged barrel and the other is a USA made rifle with a button rifled Krieger Criterion 26” tube. Both shoot inside an inch with various loads, most notably 150 gr TTSX over MagPro and Norma MRP. None of the elk taken with either one have taken more than a few steps before expiring. Based on my biased experience, I would opt for the 150 TTSX or the 160 Accubonds or Partitions. I’ve never warmed up to the idea of 175 gr bullets in either rifle, although the 24” barreled one shoot Weatherby factory 175s at a chronographed 3,010 fps around 1.5” group. Never fired them in the other one. I’ll stick with the lighter fare for the velocity. I have other rifles better suited for launching heavy for caliber projectiles. Happy Trails
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I own 2 Mark Vs in 7mm Weatherby. One is a Howa-built with a 24” hammer forged barrel and the other is a USA made rifle with a button rifled Krieger Criterion 26” tube. Both shoot inside an inch with various loads, most notably 150 gr TTSX over MagPro and Norma MRP. None of the elk taken with either one have taken more than a few steps before expiring. Based on my biased experience, I would opt for the 150 TTSX or the 160 Accubonds or Partitions. I’ve never warmed up to the idea of 175 gr bullets in either rifle, although the 24” barreled one shoot Weatherby factory 175s at a chronographed 3,010 fps around 1.5” group. Never fired them in the other one. I’ll stick with the lighter fare for the velocity. I have other rifles better suited for launching heavy for caliber projectiles. Happy Trails WAM, Good info there. Thank you.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Oracle
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Buy it. 
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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My 7mm bee is a sako action w/ a pacnor 24" 1-8" twist barrel. I'm still in the process of working up loads.
It does seem sensitive to oal length and has shot widely varying groups with small changes in oal.
I am concentrating on 150 gr bullets and some show promise shooting groups from 7/8" to 1- 1/4" I'll start tweaking these loads as soon as the weather gets better.
Heres some info on loads
150 gr. nosler E-tip w/ reloader 25 oal 3.400 vel. 3204fps
145 gr barnes ttsx w/ reloader 25 oal 3.360 vel 3260fps
150 Hornady GMX w/ hogdon H1000 - oal 3.450 vel 3180fps
Fed 215primers used in all. None of these loads are max. this sako has a 3.600 mag box
All these mono bullets seat to different lengths due to the placement and amount of grooves in the bullets
Reloader 25 and H1000 seem to work really well with 150 gr bullets giving good velocity and low SD.
Load development might be simpler with flat based bullets as Muledeer says, but you probably can get there with boattails if you don't mind tinkering.
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340boy,
I neglected to add that I get 3,180 fps with MagPro and 3,228 fps with MRP with the 150 Barnes TTSX. My velocities are very much inline with those posted above. I also use GM215M primers with both powders. I have not played around with the Barnes LRX, E-Tip or GMX bullets.
Happy Trails
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I had one 20 years ago. It was not a shooter with anything I tried in it. It might have been the design of the Weatherby stock, but I felt the recoil was a good bit more than the Remington 7mag. I shot a few deer with mine, but was trying to run 140's real fast and was not getting an exit. I guess I was just shooting those standard cup and cores a little too fast for short to medium range shots (didn't get any long shots). I am actually a Weatherby fan, but this particular rifle was on the verge of being crude. The action and bolt were both very rough and shells in the magazine were scratched and scraped by the bolt. Considering I paid over a thousand for it a long time ago it was not a very good value and I was very disappointed in the rifle. Conversely, I have handled some of the West German models in the past and the workmanship was top notch and they were smooth as butter.
Hard to beat the caliber though, recoil is tolerable and the ballistics are great. I would consider getting another one for another go - I think I simply just got a lemon.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My MkV wears an 8 twist Brux. Amazing what a great barrel with a fast twist can do...
But, it's a 7RM, not a 7 Wby...
Oh well...
DF
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My MkV wears an 8 twist Brux. Amazing what a great barrel with a fast twist can do...
But, it's a 7RM, not a 7 Wby...
Oh well...
DF
Same here except my M700 wears a 9 twist Lilja. Amazing what it can do as well. But it's a 7 Wby not a 7RM. Oh well... RD 
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Never hunted with anything other than 160 grain Accubonds. Had great results with them on everything.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Never hunted with anything other than 160 grain Accubonds. Had great results with them on everything.
Getting my hunting bud all set for upcoming PG Africa hunt. I have several bullets to try, but the 160 NAB seems to be the standard. He's shooting a 7RM Sendero. It's a heavy rifle, but he loves those guns, has a couple. Asked why he packs such a heavy rifle. His response, "I know what it'll do when I get it there"... And he does. I have some 160 Fed Tipped Bonded Trophy to try, but they're getting hard to find. Have plenty 160 NAB's. He want's to stay with 160's. Any other suggestions,160 gr, 7mm bullets for PG? DF
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Campfire Oracle
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160 gr Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame.
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Any Partition, the Swift Scirroco is an animal, Woodleigh, Interbonds... hard to pick a bad one out the ones you’ve listed and others.
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Buy it.  Yes. Good idea!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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I wish I still had my 7mm Weatherby Ultra Light. I sold it and several other guns to fund a NULA, which I never warmed up to. Mine was a shot show or gun writer test gun that was dumped by Cabelas for $800. It shot 160 factory loads at 3250 and into 1/2" to 1". I never regret selling a gun but I do that one
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I wish I still had my 7mm Weatherby Ultra Light. I sold it and several other guns to fund a NULA, which I never warmed up to. Mine was a shot show or gun writer test gun that was dumped by Cabelas for $800. It shot 160 factory loads at 3250 and into 1/2" to 1". I never regret selling a gun but I do that one The one I have been considering is called the 'Outfitter'-looks to me like it is an Ultra Light with a few cosmetic changes?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Kahuna
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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The 1:10" twist rate is pretty much a deal killer as far as I"m concerned. You can get the performance most people associate with the Weatherby out of the RM and WSM these days anyways.
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I do not have that particular rifle, but the 7 bee on a 700. Both the cartridge and caliber have an history of excellent performance on game.
I shoot 160`s and above for bullets, 160`s at 3150ish and 175`s at 3020 ish...don`t step to hard on loads, but they do get the job done. Don`t think you could go wrong with either. Buy it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I do not have that particular rifle, but the 7 bee on a 700. Both the cartridge and caliber have an history of excellent performance on game.
I shoot 160`s and above for bullets, 160`s at 3150ish and 175`s at 3020 ish...don`t step too hard on loads, but they do get the job done. Don`t think you could go wrong with either. Buy it. 10 twist handles 175’s? DF
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BTB....I have 5 boxes of Weatherby ammo loaded with 175gn Hornady FBSP bullets. Boxes with the tiger on em. I bought them from a member here some years ago...I ASSUME they were ment to be shot in Wheatherby rifles? 10 twist? I have three loaded left...been using the brass, tho shoot fine in my rifle.
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The 1:10" twist rate is pretty much a deal killer as far as I"m concerned. You can get the performance most people associate with the Weatherby out of the RM and WSM these days anyways. That doesnt sound right to me. I would think the 7 Bee would easily outrun the WSM?
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The 1:10" twist rate is pretty much a deal killer as far as I"m concerned. You can get the performance most people associate with the Weatherby out of the RM and WSM these days anyways. That doesnt sound right to me. I would think the 7 Bee would easily outrun the WSM? That's my thought, as well?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
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I had one years ago and it was 100% OK. I gave it up because of the expense of Weatherby brass (made by Norma) and the fact I could not see anything it did any better then my 7MM Rem mag.
But when I had it, I fed it a pretty steady diet of 175 grain bullets and I have nothing bad to say about it, for accuracy or game killing ability.
I sold the rifle because I just like the looks of other more classic rifles better. But the MK5 is a super strong and smooth action. I shot it to some very long distances on paper targets with zero complaints . We had a 1/2 mile range where I used to shoot back then.
If the 1-10" twist was bad in any way I am fairly sure I would have seen it at 880 yards. I didn't see ANYTHING to complain about.
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I had one years ago and it was 100% OK. I gave it up because of the expense of Weatherby brass (made by Norma) and the fact I could not see anything it did any better then my 7MM Rem mag.
But when I had it, I fed it a pretty steady diet of 175 grain bullets and I have nothing bad to say about it, for accuracy or game killing ability.
I sold the
If the 1-10" twist was bad in any way I am fairly sure I would have seen it at 880 yards. I didn't see ANYTHING to complain about. I had one years ago and it was 100% OK. I gave it up because of the expense of Weatherby brass (made by Norma) and the fact I could not see anything it did any better then my 7MM Rem mag.
But when I had it, I fed it a pretty steady diet of 175 grain bullets and I have nothing bad to say about it, for accuracy or game killing ability.
I sold the rifle because I just like the looks of other more classic rifles better. But the MK5 is a super strong and smooth action. I shot it to some very long distances on paper targets with zero complaints . We had a 1/2 mile range where I used to shoot back then.
If the 1-10" twist was bad in any way I am fairly sure I would have seen it at 880 yards. I didn't see ANYTHING to complain about. szihn, Thank you! That's exactly the kind of information I need.
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10 twist handles 175’s?
DF
I had a 7mm Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight for a while. The 1-10 twist shot fine with the 175 Hornady Spire Point here in Montana at 4000 feet above sea level at typical fall hunting temperature of 35 degrees. Also saw my companion's Mark V work fine on a bull elk at 8500 feet in Colorado, with the same bullet. I had one years ago and it was 100% OK.
I gave it up because of the expense of Weatherby brass (made by Norma) and the fact I could ******not see anything it did any better then my 7MM Rem mag.*****
But when I had it, I fed it a pretty steady diet of 175 grain bullets and I have nothing bad to say about it, for accuracy or game killing ability.
If the 1-10" twist was bad in any way I am fairly sure I would have seen it at 880 yards. I didn't see ANYTHING to complain about. DF there you have 2 good references on 10 twist and 175s. I agree with Szihn - I don't think there's enuff diff in the 7 B from the 7 RM to justify the added expense. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My 7RM is 8 twist as I posted. I know what it'll do, even with 180's, and was curious about 10 twist with heavies..
4,000' elevation probably helps, but not sure how marginal 10 twist is with 175's. And, for sure the length of the bullet is a factor.
DF
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L The 1:10" twist rate is pretty much a deal killer as far as I"m concerned. You can get the performance most people associate with the Weatherby out of the RM and WSM these days anyways. Hmmm.... that’s one for the “You gotta be sh1ttin’ me, Private Pyle” file.
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Yes, everyone's [bleep] you. Sure. That's it. We're [bleep] you. You figured it out.
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I don't happen to own a Weatherby (for good reason) but Quickload does say it could get me an extra 13 ft/s at the same pressure vs my WSM. I think I'll run right out and buy one!!!!!
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I just love all the experts that know so much about a rifle cartridge, But don't own one. I have had them all : 7mm wsm, 7mm rem saum, and a 7mm weatherby and please believe me, the 7mm weatherby will way out do the short mags especially with heavy bullets. I would not be afraid of a 1-10 for the 7mm bee. Talking from experience not Quickload.
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My 7RM is 8 twist as I posted. I know what it'll do, even with 180's, and was curious about 10 twist with heavies..
4,000' elevation probably helps, but not sure how marginal 10 twist is with 175's. And, for sure the length of the bullet is a factor.
DF I'm about 650 ABS and have no troubles shooting 175 in My 7MM Bee and in cold weather also never had a problem even with the Barnes 175 TSX . When Savage first came out with the Edge which later be came the Axis I bought one in 7mm08 for a beater to carry in the truck the first load i tried was a 140 Grn. B tip it was almost a one hole rifle also shot 145 Grn. Speers great I later found out it was 1:11.5 twist. I don't have a clue what savage was thinking when they made them but I'm glad they did that little salavge has shoot a lot of deer and won me a couple sides of beef as well.
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I don't own one or need one.
It is a hard hitting round.
I guess it all depends are you needs, better become a expert at picking brass at the range- those babies 'round here are costly and you won't run them 20 times like you might with a 7x57. The cases are as much a consumable as the bullets and powder. 2 or 3 times might be it.
Maybe, the shop will pitch in a couple of boxes of Weatherby ammo- or maybe they can't find any either.
Just pulling your chain but there is a bit of truth in it.Cheers
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I don't own one or need one.
It is a hard hitting round.
I guess it all depends are you needs, better become a expert at picking brass at the range- those babies 'round here are costly and you won't run them 20 times like you might with a 7x57. The cases are as much a consumable as the bullets and powder. 2 or 3 times might be it.
Maybe, the shop will pitch in a couple of boxes of Weatherby ammo- or maybe they can't find any either.
Just pulling your chain but there is a bit of truth in it.Cheers
I hear you! I'm going to see what the shop will do on the price. I realize that it isn't(much of a)step up from the 7RM, but from the data I've seen I can do 3200ish with a 160 and 3000+ with a 175, and that's good enough for me.
Last edited by 340boy; 04/12/19.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Wby MK V Fibermark 7 Wby
120 @ 3650
140 @ 3400
150 @ 3250
160 @ 3200
All sub MOA from my 24” barrel (cut 2” from original)
8 lbs ready to hunt
I’ve taken many Axis with this gun & one Elk.
Be glad to divulge my load recipes.
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Robert E. Lee
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You can easily form 7mmW brass from 7mm RM ... One pass though the Wea. sizing die and you have it.. My WM shoots 160's about 200 fps faster than my 7mm RM!!
Molon Labe
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I just love all the experts that know so much about a rifle cartridge, But don't own one. I have had them all : 7mm wsm, 7mm rem saum, and a 7mm weatherby and please believe me, the 7mm weatherby will way out do the short mags especially with heavy bullets. I would not be afraid of a 1-10 for the 7mm bee. Talking from experience not Quickload. Amen. I won’t slam any of the other cartridges but I do know the Bee does what is claimed and mine shoots the 175 Hornady Interlock loaded in Weatherby factory ammo just fine, although I don’t hunt with them. I just salvaged the brass. I give a rodent’s rear what QL says! And the elk roast on Sunday was mighty tasty. Lol 😂 Happy Trails
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You can easily form 7mmW brass from 7mm RM ... One pass though the Wea. sizing die and you have it.. My WM shoots 160's about 200 fps faster than my 7mm RM!! Case capacity pretty close. 7RM psi is capped by SAAMI, is lower than 7WBY. There have been long discussions why. Running at equal pressure, not that much difference. DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 04/12/19.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Have read as much misunderstanding of basic ballistics on this thread as on any subject that's appeared on this forum in recent years.
1) The 7mm Weatherby case has just about exactly the same powder capacity as the 7mm Remington Magnum, but the longer throat of the Weatherby does allow around 150-200 fps more muzzle velocity at the same pressure.
2) Yes, a 1-10 twist will stabilize some pretty heavy 7mm spitzers, but not all. If you don't get this, then you need to do some remedial research on rifling twist.
3) Once again, most posters are obsessing about muzzle velocity, when what really matters is downrange velocity.
4) Whether any of this matters in the so-called "real world" (sometimes I wonder if that exists on the Campfire) is another question,
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John Steinbeck
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Case capacity pretty close. 7RM psi is capped by SAAMI, is lower than 7WBY. There have been long discussions why. Running at equal pressure, not that much difference.
DF
Yes, and I'm sure that you know that the Wby freebore is definitely part of the discussion. edit: sorry, M D was just a little quicker typing than I. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 04/12/19.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The 7 Weatherby is about neck and neck with the 7 Mashburn, correct?
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John, Aren't Weatherby guys speeds demons in the first place? Wanna be race car drivers, maybe. My view is -What are the numbers are like out of a shorter barrel?
A 22" barrel takes many out of the race.
Oh yeah, 24 CF hovers in and out of reality and I could be part of the problem . Cheers
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Case capacity pretty close. 7RM psi is capped by SAAMI, is lower than 7WBY. There have been long discussions why. Running at equal pressure, not that much difference.
DF
Yes, and I'm sure that you know that the Wby freebore is definitely part of the discussion. edit: sorry, M D was just a little quicker typing than I. Jerry Yep JB was pretty quick. My smith thought the 7RM was potentially more accurate than the Wby. Now, that should open a can of worms. In fairness to the Wby, if it’s carefully chambered with a tight freebore, accuracy can be excellent. I went with the smith’s suggestion; he’s sort of an accuracy nut. I have no regrets. DF
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Campfire Ranger
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The 7 Weatherby is about neck and neck with the 7 Mashburn, correct? Yup, that’s about what the Mashburn does for me, 3250 with 160’s and 3050-3100 with 175’s depending on the reamer and barrel length.
Semper Fi
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Campfire Kahuna
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beretz,
And of course you're using pressure-tested loads in the 7mm Mashburn....
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Of course, all the folks on the 24CF only work up pressure tested loads checked to SAAMI velocity specs on a calibrated chronograph.
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John, Aren't Weatherby guys speeds demons in the first place? Wanna be race car drivers, maybe. My view is -What are the numbers are like out of a shorter barrel?
A 22" barrel takes many out of the race.
Oh yeah, 24 CF hovers in and out of reality and I could be part of the problem . Cheers What reality is anyone in who would shorten any of the 7mm magnums to a 22” barrel? Get a grip....buy a 7-08 if you need a 22” barrel! LOL!
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Campfire Ranger
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John, Aren't Weatherby guys speeds demons in the first place? Wanna be race car drivers, maybe. My view is -What are the numbers are like out of a shorter barrel?
A 22" barrel takes many out of the race.
Oh yeah, 24 CF hovers in and out of reality and I could be part of the problem . Cheers What reality is anyone in who would shorten any of the 7mm magnums to a 22” barrel? Get a grip....buy a 7-08 if you need a 22” barrel! LOL! I'm going a full 26", though I realize that is sacrilege to many of the Campfire denizens.
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What scope are you going to use if you buy the 7mm Wby,340boy? IMO a Leupold 3.5x10 would be a great choice.
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Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
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340boy.The great thing about a 26" barrel is it can be fixed. Cut and crown , man- when your ready.
Warren Page's 7mm Mashburn had a 22" barrel ( he said)" it wasn't for pole vaulting" and it will still unleash the fire and fury you desire. It is all in fun.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Of course, all the folks on the 24CF only work up pressure tested loads checked to SAAMI velocity specs on a calibrated chronograph. Of course they do! I asked my rhetorical question of beretz, about whether his 7mm Mashburn loads were put together with pressure-tested data, because the usual reason wildcats get very high velocities is pressures are higher than the maximum 65,000 PSI SAAMI allows with ANY cartridge. This doesn't mean pressures above 65,000 PSI are unsafe (though SAAMI does prefer a little safety margin). But it means comparing wildcat velocities with factory-cartridge velocities usually involves a pressure advantage for the wildcat. The most accurate comparison would occur with both loaded to the same pressure.
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John Steinbeck
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The impact of longer freebore (longer than needed not to jam the lands ) is HUGELY overrated. In some cases it can actually decrease the velocity you can achieve at a given pressure with a given powder. Some powders do not like low shot start pressures.
As a starting point, it's correct to assume additional freebore has NO affect whatsoever. The additional velocity of the Weatherby, to the extent that it exists at all, is almost entirely due to extra pressure. There is also some benefit to roughly an additional 6gr H20 of case capacity, but it's not much.
For heavy 175 bullets the Weatherby has the unfortunate feature that the slight bit of extra case capacity it has (~8% vs. RM and WSM depending on brass choice) causes it to want a powder slower than Retumbo, and there aren't any good options because the 50 BMG powders have received limited development and aren't very good. That's why instead of being say 100 ft/s faster like you might expect for the extra case capacity, in reality it's only 13 ft/s faster than the WSM at the same pressure.
Last edited by Llama_Bob; 04/13/19.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Llama Bob,
Unfortunately, on just about every level your post shows you don't know what you're talking about.
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John Steinbeck
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That's nice. Suffice to say I know a good bit about internal ballistics and don't much care what you think.
Get back to me when you've rigged a barrel with a piezo, rebored the the chamber with longer freebore, adjusted the load to hold pressure constant, and measured the results.
Last edited by Llama_Bob; 04/13/19.
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Campfire Ranger
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What scope are you going to use if you buy the 7mm Wby,340boy? IMO a Leupold 3.5x10 would be a great choice. That Leupy is one of my favorites,as well. We will see.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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340boy.The great thing about a 26" barrel is it can be fixed. Cut and crown , man- when your ready.
Warren Page's 7mm Mashburn had a 22" barrel ( he said)" it wasn't for pole vaulting" and it will still unleash the fire and fury you desire. It is all in fun. If I can't pole vault with it in the off-season, what's the point?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Kahuna
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Llama Bob,
I have also spent considerable time in a piezo lab, including performing a few experiments. But I also prefer to have more data than one example.
Here are the maximum velocity results from the 7mm WSM, 7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm Weatherby Magnum, using the latest available data. I left out a few sources that did not include extensive data, used different measurement methods for them, or included obvious misprints. Please note that only one sources used a different length test barrel for the 7mm Weatherby.
Barnes (24" barrels all cartridges)
WSM 160-2920, 175-2845
Rem. 160-2858, 175-2757
Wby 160-3079, 175-2931
Hornady (24" WSM and Rem, 26" Wby)
WSM 162-3000, 175-2900
Rem. 162-3000, 175-2900
Wby 162-3200, 175-3100
Norma (26" barrels both cartridges)
No WSM data
Rem. 160-3074, 175-2759
Wby. 160-3199, 175-3038
Nosler (24" barrels all cartridges)
WSM 160-2951, 175-3061
Rem. 160-3077, 175-2970
Wby. 160-3065, 175-3197
Speer (24" barrels all cartridges)
WSM 160-3090, 175-no data
Rem. 160-3049, 175-2954
Wby. 160-3142, 175-3016
Averages:
WSM 160/162-2990, 175-2935
Rem. 160-2912, 175-2868
Wby. 160-3137, 165-3077
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Savant
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Anyone of them would kill any animal 99% of us will run across in North America.
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Campfire Ranger
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Thanks for that info, JB!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks for that info, JB! +1 Lot of work putting all that together, good info. Agree with Hanco, all of those would work on about any critters we'll hunt in North Anerica. I'd probably take my .375 for big bears, just me. Not that the right bullet out of a big seven wouldn't whack one. DF
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Max temp-stable load for the 175gr in 7mm WSM is slightly over 3000 ft/s out of a 24" pressure constrained to 63 KPSI (Retumbo). It's 2980 ft/s for a RM (Retumbo again), and the difference is due almost entirely to a reduced max pressure at 61 KPSI. That max pressure reduction is artificial with modern rifles, and at the same pressure as the WSM the RM gets very similar results with case capacity being about 1gr H20 more in the RM and the WSM shoulder being slightly more efficient.
So now we understand part of your confusion - you have inaccurate data. That's not totally your fault as the 7mm RM and WSM data is unusually bad even compared to the general disaster that is published reloading data.
The Weatherby is 5grH20 bigger than the RM and 6gr bigger than the WSM. But it hits a bad spot in terms of powder availability and gives what advantage it had back, hitting in the low 3000s with the 175gr and Retumbo as well. What it really wants is "slow Retumbo" but no such powder exists. A couple of non-pressure tested loads have been published as high as 3070 ft/s, but that's a LONG LONG ways from the 150-200 ft/s you claimed from the throat.
In fact, the idea that you could get a "free" 150-200 ft/s just by changing the throat is laughable. Not only does it defy everything we know of interior ballistics, but if it were possible we'd see long throat versions of every cartridge as no one would be able to pass up that free lunch. In reality, everyone has tested it, and it doesn't provide any benefit. When you lengthen the throat, both pressure and velocity go down. When you add powder to get back to MAP pressure, you end up back very close to where you were velocity-wise. With some powders, you gain a few ft/s. With some you lose a few. With Retumbo (which is the fastest temp-stable option here) you actually lose a bit.
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Oh, and it's worth noting that Nosler only advertises 3061 ft/s for the Weatherby now. They had to yank everything faster as they were over-pressure. Actually their current data would be a hair over-pressure in a min-chamber gun, but not by a huge amount.
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What’s the point you’re trying to prove? Just letting everyone know that other 7mms are nearly as good?
I’ve got all mentioned besides the MSM.. you’re an idiot.
There now we can both sleep better
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What’s the point you’re trying to prove? Just letting everyone know that other 7mms are nearly as good?
Some people might actually be interested in the relationship between the cartridges. If that's not you, there's no reason you need to subject yourself to the information.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Llama Bob,
Thanks for all the information, If you don't mind a few serious questions, I would start by asking who you work for, or do you have your own lab?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Been looking at a new MkV in 7mm Weatherby that has been languishing on my dealer's shelf for years. I've never been much of a 7mm guy, but I find myself thinking pretty hard about (this) one.
What kind of velocities with different loads are you guys seeing, and how do you like the caliber?
Thanks for any and all info.
1-9” 24” Bartlein barrel ,RWS brass 215M primers 3120 FPS 180 scenar IMR 8133 2900 FPS 195 EOL IMR 7977 I haven’t worked much with lighter bullets to work with a 1-10”, but those two powders are worth trying with 150-160’s too
Last edited by rosco1; 04/13/19.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Without stomping on the gas, my 24” 7 Wby gets about 3025-3040 with IMR-7828 and 175 Partitions which parallels JB’s data.
Last edited by navlav8r; 04/13/19.
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Wow...that`s pretty darn nice...I may have to look into those two powders.
How is your accuracy? and OAL?
Thanks
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Campfire Ranger
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Been looking at a new MkV in 7mm Weatherby that has been languishing on my dealer's shelf for years. I've never been much of a 7mm guy, but I find myself thinking pretty hard about (this) one.
What kind of velocities with different loads are you guys seeing, and how do you like the caliber?
Thanks for any and all info.
1-9” 24” Bartlein barrel ,RWS brass 215M primers 3120 FPS 180 scenar IMR 8133 2900 FPS 195 EOL IMR 7977 I haven’t worked much with lighter bullets to work with a 1-10”, but those two powders are worth trying with 150-160’s too Thanks for the info!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Max temp-stable load for the 175gr in 7mm WSM is slightly over 3000 ft/s out of a 24" pressure constrained to 63 KPSI (Retumbo). It's 2980 ft/s for a RM (Retumbo again), and the difference is due almost entirely to a reduced max pressure at 61 KPSI. That max pressure reduction is artificial with modern rifles, and at the same pressure as the WSM the RM gets very similar results with case capacity being about 1gr H20 more in the RM and the WSM shoulder being slightly more efficient.
So now we understand part of your confusion - you have inaccurate data. That's not totally your fault as the 7mm RM and WSM data is unusually bad even compared to the general disaster that is published reloading data.
The Weatherby is 5grH20 bigger than the RM and 6gr bigger than the WSM. But it hits a bad spot in terms of powder availability and gives what advantage it had back, hitting in the low 3000s with the 175gr and Retumbo as well. What it really wants is "slow Retumbo" but no such powder exists. A couple of non-pressure tested loads have been published as high as 3070 ft/s, but that's a LONG LONG ways from the 150-200 ft/s you claimed from the throat.
In fact, the idea that you could get a "free" 150-200 ft/s just by changing the throat is laughable. Not only does it defy everything we know of interior ballistics, but if it were possible we'd see long throat versions of every cartridge as no one would be able to pass up that free lunch. In reality, everyone has tested it, and it doesn't provide any benefit. When you lengthen the throat, both pressure and velocity go down. When you add powder to get back to MAP pressure, you end up back very close to where you were velocity-wise. With some powders, you gain a few ft/s. With some you lose a few. With Retumbo (which is the fastest temp-stable option here) you actually lose a bit. You took someone’s lunch money 😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
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Hmm giving bonus points for the short fat case design and shoulder and not acknowledging the superior gas handling of the venturified shoulder? Totally un Californian, may Ralph Waldo Miller rest in peace.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tejano,
I found his comments on case shape interesting, because maybe 3 years ago I had extensive conversations with the head techs at two major piezo labs, Both were adamant that case shape does NOT affect powder-burning "efficiency," in the sense of getting extra velocity out of the same case capacity. But both found case shape to affect powder-burning consistency, with shorter, fatter, steeper-shouldered case (like the WSM) resulting in lower spreads in both pressure and velocity.
Which is one I asked Llama Bob who he worked for, or whether he has his own piezo lab. Am always ready to learn something new, especially after he claimed the list of 7mm magnum loading data in my post was all inaccurate.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Hmm giving bonus points for the short fat case design and shoulder and not acknowledging the superior gas handling of the venturified shoulder? Totally un Californian, may Ralph Waldo Miller rest in peace. The double radius shoulder is fine, but it doesn't do better than a 30+ degree shoulder on a fat case as far as anyone can tell. It was a however a substantial improvement over the H&H shoulder which was the context in which it appeared. They seem to be equally good solutions to the problem, except for machining difficulty.
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Llama Bob,
Thanks for all the information, If you don't mind a few serious questions, I would start by asking who you work for, or do you have your own lab? I have my own setup including access through my (non-firearms) employer to some equipment that usually isn't found in ballistics labs like high-quality laser vibrometers. The 7mms have always been of interest to me and I've spent quite a bit of time with them.
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A pic and some data might serve to re-enforce your savvy, Bob...
But regardless, as much as I hate reading through multiple pages of anecdotal contentions...MD occasionally coughs up dang interesting lab data...:)
That is certainly appreciated.
Defend the Constitution
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Campfire Kahuna
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Llama Bob,
Thanks again for the info.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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The main advantage of having a 7mm Weatherby is that your offspring and parsimonious hunting buddies can’t bum your ammo when they “forgot” to get some for their pedestrian Remington or short fat for the hunt or range shoot. 😂
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ha!
The same is usually true of the 7x57....
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John Steinbeck
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Ha!
The same is usually true of the 7x57.... Yep! Still working on perfecting a load for my M70 in that cartridge. I don’t know of any of my hunting acquaintances that own one of those either. Happy Trails
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Which M 70 do you own in 7x57?
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FN South Carolina built M70 Featherweight. Walnut stock, blued. 22” barrel
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What is your pet load for your 7x57? Thanks in advance!
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IMR 4350 49.0 grs using a WLR primer,140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped
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JB thanks for the info. My loads are almost a duplicate of those velocities. I could also throw in the 280AI which is breathing heavily down the neck of the 7RM at least with my current rifles. By virtue of 2 more inches of barrel and max loads the 280AI can come to within 50-60 fps of my RM with 23 inch barrel with 160s and about 75-80 fps with 175s.
Have not run R26 in the 7RM yet which may bring the spread closer to 100 fps at least with168-175 gr bullets.
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IMR 4350 49.0 grs using a WLR primer,140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped Ken, How does the 140 TBT stack up against the 140 NAB at 7x57 velocities? And, of course, not counting mega sized NM Jackwabbits; need a .460 to stop those... I'm working up PG loads for my hunting bud's 7RM; he's headed to Africa later this year. I have 160 NAB and 160 TBT bullets to try, hoping RL-26 will work. I do have Mag Pro, Retumbo, H-1000, 7828 and the usual candidates. My 7RM works great with RL-22 and 140's, have a big jug of MRP, which some claim is a higher quality RL-22, which I also have along with RL-23. I don't like to get caught short when reloading... The TBT seems to be a really interesting bullet, sorta hard to find at times. DF
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I have not used the TBT on game yet,nor the NAB. I cannot help you there.
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I'm working up PG loads for my hunting bud's 7RM; he's headed to Africa later this year. I have 160 NAB and 160 TBT bullets to try, hoping RL-26 will work. I do have Mag Pro, Retumbo, H-1000, 7828 and the usual candidates. My 7RM works great with RL-22 and 140's, have a big jug of MRP, which some claim is a higher quality RL-22, which I also have along with RL-23. *** I don't like to get caught short when reloading... DF You sound like someone I know. I won't admit it. It's the guy my wife's married to !  Yrs ago when powder FIRST jumped to 12-15 $ per lb. I set a goal of acquiring enuff powder to last longer than I live ! Last year I added 4# of H 4350 & 4# of Rl 26. I made it. Jerry
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7 Mag data -- WSM, RM, & Wby
Hornady (24" WSM and Rem, 26" Wby)
WSM 162-3000, 175-2900
Rem. 162-3000, ** 175-2900
Wby 162-3200, 175-3100
Norma (26" barrels both cartridges)
No WSM data
Rem. 160-3074, ** 175-2759
Wby. 160-3199, 175-3038
Nosler (24" barrels all cartridges)
WSM 160-2951, 175-3061
Rem. 160-3077, ** 175-2970
Wby. 160-3065, 175-3197
Speer (24" barrels all cartridges)
WSM 160-3090, 175-no data
Rem. 160-3049, ** 175-2954
Wby. 160-3142, 175-3016
Thnx MD for those listings!! I omitted the Barnes data because I don't have 1 Barnes bullet. I notated the 160-162s >> in the 7 RM >> the Hornady load is the slowest of the 4. First I took a PIC off my lap top screen. --> It's in my phone pix. Second, I emailed that to myself for storage record. THNX again. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 04/14/19.
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Spring yesterday and beautiful but the four inches of new snow today is depressing...especially to the robins. Carol suggested moving...
340:
fwiw, the 7WB loaded with a 150/160 NAB and a scope with an elevation dial strikes me as one of the best choices for sitting on a mountain saddle in the Rockies with 600+ yards of possibility in front of you.
Colorado daughter and I were sitting in just such a place a few years ago while she was too sick to hunt on her feet and we watched two good mule deer bucks taking their time to cross it. We had elk tags in our pockets...:)
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Spring yesterday and beautiful but the four inches of new snow today is depressing...especially to the robins. Carol suggested moving...
340:
fwiw, the 7WB loaded with a 150/160 NAB and a scope with an elevation dial strikes me as one of the best choices for sitting on a mountain saddle in the Rockies with 600+ yards of possibility in front of you.
Colorado daughter and I were sitting in just such a place a few years ago while she was too sick to hunt on her feet and we watched two good mule deer bucks taking their time to cross it. We had elk tags in our pockets...:)
Tom, I like the way you think. I hope you and your daughter filled those elk tags?
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Dirt farmer: I have used or seen used all of those bullets on plains game and/or Elk in the 7RM. I would start with R26 and the TBT either the 160 or 175s. I have found Sierras close enough for load work up with these and the Barnes. Then I would try MRP and maybe the Accubond next if the previous loads were not working out which is hard to imagine.
Have not used any in the 7x57 but most in either the 6.5x55 or 270. The AB and ABLR work fine at Swede velocities. Have only used the Trophy in 270 and I think especially the tipped version will open just fine at 7x57 velocities but is really not needed at those velocities.
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IMR 4350 49.0 grs using a WLR primer,140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped Ken, I forgot all about those TBTs-they sound like a good bullet??
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No...but she made up for it with a nice bull the following year...;)
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No...but she made up for it with a nice bull the following year...;) 😎😎
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IMR 4350 49.0 grs using a WLR primer,140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped Ken, I forgot all about those TBTs-they sound like a good bullet?? Only killed one deer with them and that was from a .270 Win. They have been accurate enough in my .270 Win,7x57 and 7mm Dakota.
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IMR 4350 49.0 grs using a WLR primer,140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped Ken, I forgot all about those TBTs-they sound like a good bullet?? Only killed one deer with them and that was from a .270 Win. They have been accurate enough in my .270 Win,7x57 and 7mm Dakota. Good! May be something I need to try.
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When you find them,best get 2-3 boxes or so..
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When you find them,best get 2-3 boxes or so.. I've never, ever seen them in a store as a component bullet. I'd probably have to order them online?
Last edited by 340boy; 04/14/19.
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Grafs & Sons and Midway USA carry them. Right now they are out of stock.
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Grafs & Sons and Midway USA carry them. Right now they are out of stock.
Mine came from Midway. Should have gotten more.... I guess demand has out stripped supply. Maybe they'll catch up this summer. DF
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for.
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH??
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH?? Well, get the brass, dies, bullets, etc. Then, you'll need a rifle. Makes perfect sense... DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 04/14/19.
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH?? Well, get the brass, dies, bullets, etc. Then, you'll need a rifle. Makes perfect sense... DF It is sadly, a statement of just how far gone l am that your statement makes perfect sense. 
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH?? Best get on the ball then!
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH?? Best get on the ball then! I'm going in this next week and try to talk 'em down on the price a bit? We'll see how it goes. 👍🏻
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
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Ken
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Thanks, Ken! I'm looking forward to getting going on this project. And If I draw an elk tag in a few months? Even better!
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH?? Best get on the ball then! I'm going in this next week and try to talk 'em down on the price a bit? We'll see how it goes. 👍🏻 Tell'em it's an odd ball round, ammo is mega expensive, and remeind them just how long it's been in inventory, sitting there, unsold... Besides, anyone in the know wants a black rifle, not a used Wby... When convinced just how sorry a gun it is, maybe they'll help you load it... DF
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Even if you don't get an elk tag,take it deer hunting.
Or,you can send it to me and I'll try it out on some jackrabbits.
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Even if you don't get an elk tag,take it deer hunting.
Or,you can send it to me and I'll try it out on some jackrabbits. Probably over penetrate. DF
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Just a bit.
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Well, get the brass, dies, bullets, etc. Then, you'll need a rifle. Makes perfect sense... DF It is sadly, a statement of just how far gone l am that your statement makes perfect sense. NOW, you have EARNED your LOONY card! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
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Not yet Jwall,he has to use the 7mm Wby on a itty bitty critter and post pictures on the fire. Then he has earned his LOONEY card.
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Not yet Jwall,he has to use the 7mm Wby on a itty bitty critter and post pictures on the fire. Then he has earned his LOONEY card. IMO -- when you get dies, BRASS, powder, primers, bullets, & scope for a rifle you DON'T have ---> qualifies for the LOONY card. grin edit -- I omitted brass. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 04/14/19.
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Looks like I've work to do. 😉
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Got mine at Midway also.
That's what I'm hoping for. I kind of figured they were hard to obtain? Guess I can keep an eye out. Wait a minute, I haven't even bought the rifle yet? WTH?? Best get on the ball then! I'm going in this next week and try to talk 'em down on the price a bit? We'll see how it goes. 👍🏻 Tell'em it's an odd ball round, ammo is mega expensive, and remeind them just how long it's been in inventory, sitting there, unsold... Besides, anyone in the know wants a black rifle, not a used Wby... When convinced just how sorry a gun it is, maybe they'll help you load it... DF DF, Mind If I print this and take it to the gun store with me?
Last edited by 340boy; 04/14/19.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
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Lama bob,
I read your posts in this thread with interest. You seem to have a solid take on pressures and load procedure for the 3 - 7mm's in this discussion.
Your figures on velocity differences and case design between them seem in line with your testing and beyond my ability to confirm or dispute, I do think you know what you're talking about.
However, in the real world of "joe average" we go by published load data that has been pressure tested by people that do make public their data.
This published data shows a real world difference in cartridge velocities as shown by the data Muledeer posted in this thread.
For me and most other reloaders who don't have our own piezo equipment or a laser vibrometer available, published data and a chronograph are the best we have.
So for now I guess that the data I use has been tested and accepted for common usage and the postulation you've made is just an opinion, Although interesting - still just your opinion.
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340boy, sure you can use that line of BS, negotiating for your 7 Wby. And, of course, we expect pictures when you get that "sorry ole Wby" home... DF Edited to add, tell them that is a high intensity round, that a used gun like that can have a shot out barrel. Ask if they have a borescope, that you're concerned about how much life that barrel may have... And, for the right price, you'll take it off their hands, as is... Of course, doing them a favor...
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 04/14/19.
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RTFQ. The OP said it was a new Mark V languishing in old stock.
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It's called wheeling and dealing.
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Tell'em it's an odd ball round, ammo is mega expensive, and remind them just how long it's been in inventory, sitting there, unsold... Besides, anyone in the know wants a black rifle, not a used Wby... When convinced just how sorry a gun it is, maybe they'll help you load it... <-- see 340boy, sure you can use that line of BS, negotiating for your 7 Wby. And, of course, we expect pictures when you get that "sorry ole Wby" home... DF Edited to add, tell them that is a high intensity round, that a used gun like that can have a shot out barrel. Ask if they have a borescope, that you're concerned about how much life that barrel may have... And, for the right price, you'll take it off their hands, as is... Of course, doing them a favor.. D F - your humor, sarcasm & bs are evident. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
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Not yet Jwall,he has to use the 7mm Wby on a itty bitty critter and post pictures on the fire. Then he has earned his LOONEY card. IMO -- when you get dies, BRASS, powder, primers, bullets, & scope for a rifle you DON'T have ---> qualifies for the LOONY card. grin edit -- I omitted brass. Jerry If that's the case,I have a rifle with no bullets but everything else.
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Waiting for pictures...
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....the 7WB loaded with a 150/160 NAB and a scope with an elevation dial strikes me as one of the best choices for sitting on a mountain saddle in the Rockies with 600+ yards of possibility in front of you....... Sho' got that right!!
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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IMO -- when you get dies, BRASS, powder, primers, bullets, & scope for a rifle you DON'T have ---> qualifies for the LOONY card. grin
edit -- I omitted brass.
Jerry
If that's the case,I have a rifle with no bullets but everything else. you STILL qualify, *** CERTIFIED*** Loony ! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Lama bob,
I read your posts in this thread with interest. You seem to have a solid take on pressures and load procedure for the 3 - 7mm's in this discussion.
Your figures on velocity differences and case design between them seem in line with your testing and beyond my ability to confirm or dispute, I do think you know what you're talking about.
However, in the real world of "joe average" we go by published load data that has been pressure tested by people that do make public their data.
This published data shows a real world difference in cartridge velocities as shown by the data Muledeer posted in this thread.
For me and most other reloaders who don't have our own piezo equipment or a laser vibrometer available, published data and a chronograph are the best we have.
So for now I guess that the data I use has been tested and accepted for common usage and the postulation you've made is just an opinion, Although interesting - still just your opinion.
I'm certainly not going to argue with someone using whatever load data they want. The reality is that there's a lot of it out there, and the average quality is very bad. If you think the data's been pressure tested in a way that will prevent an over-pressure situation (like you might expect with factory ammo) you'll be disappointed. Most of it hasn't been pressure tested at all other than not having blown up someone's rifle somewhere. Some of it (for example the Berger book) is 100% "dry labbed" - it's never even seen the inside of one rifle, just simulation software. Data listed in CUP (like most of the Weatherby data) is probably +-10% once you convert it to useful pressure units. Piezo data is sometimes better. Then of course there's the data where the lawyers told them to lower the charge weight, and they left the velocity and pressure where it was (Hodgdon, I'm looking at you...) thus baffling anyone which a chrono and/or strain gauge that tries to use it. Given the general mess, I roll my own. But if people want to use a specific cartridge because it has high pressure/velocity data published for it (and that's generally true for the Weatherby cartridges - often over pressure) then I can understand that.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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....the 7WB loaded with a 150/160 NAB and a scope with an elevation dial strikes me as one of the best choices for sitting on a mountain saddle in the Rockies with 600+ yards of possibility in front of you....... Sho' got that right!! A properly loaded 7 Rem Mag is equally capable. There's not that much difference between them. +/- 100 fps. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Jerry,
I’m not sure anyone disputes the 7mm Remington as being equally effective on game. Point is that the Weatherby is a bit faster and therefore provides a measure of increased performance, however slight. Ever Looney!
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Yep, slight is the operative word.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
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IMR 4350 49.0 grs using a WLR primer,140 grain Trophy Bonded Tipped Ken, How does the 140 TBT stack up against the 140 NAB at 7x57 velocities? And, of course, not counting mega sized NM Jackwabbits; need a .460 to stop those... I'm working up PG loads for my hunting bud's 7RM; he's headed to Africa later this year. I have 160 NAB and 160 TBT bullets to try, hoping RL-26 will work. I do have Mag Pro, Retumbo, H-1000, 7828 and the usual candidates. My 7RM works great with RL-22 and 140's, have a big jug of MRP, which some claim is a higher quality RL-22, which I also have along with RL-23. I don't like to get caught short when reloading... The TBT seems to be a really interesting bullet, sorta hard to find at times. DF DF, we’ve used both the 160 Accubonds outta the 7 Rem, 7 Mashburn on elk and the 140 TBT out of the 270 last year. I couldn’t tell difference really. Both seem to expand about the same and penetration has always been excellent for us. Whichever shoots better would be my choice. Not a bad pick either way.
Semper Fi
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Campfire Tracker
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Bob...I read with interest your input on "free bore", or a long lead, and that many expairiments had been conducted suggesting neither made a difference worth mentioning. Wonder if you have a link to that info? My short experience with different leads in the 7RM has suggested otherwise.
I`m always trying to learn..
Thanks
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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RTFQ. The OP said it was a new Mark V languishing in old stock. What do facts have to do with horse trading for a "used" gun... DF
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years.
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF
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Campfire Regular
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For somebody that's been shooting and hunting as long as I have I'm an ignorant SOB about bullets. That's because I'm the type that says stuff like, "Never kick a sleepin' dog" "If it ain't broke don't fix it," "They always worked! Why change?" Like nothing ever improves. I've shot mostly Winchester Power Point, Remington Core Lokt, and reloaded mostly Sierra Game Kings and Pro Hunters.
One thing that caused me to be like that was when I was fairly new to hunting, like mostly back in the 60s and 70s every time I failed to down a deer that I knew I had hit well, I was using something other than one of those I mentioned above. I shot a doe one time at a whopping 30 yards with my .270 and it ran off like it hadn't been touched. I know as well as I'm sitting here typing this that I hit that deer where I was aiming but it put it in overdrive and virtually flew to the next zip code. Never found that deer.
I had ordered some bullets from my local FFL and he screwed up and ordered me Speer bullets. About 10 years later he did the same thing again and I suckered in again, only this time it was 100 grain 6mm bullets. I had ordered Sierra Pro Hunters and he got me Speer somethings. Same results. I tried to track the deer and found a few dabs of blood, then saw it standing about 100 yards over on the next hill and he took off from there never to be seen by these eyes again.
And as recently as 5 years back I shot at a nice buck about 100+ yards out that was slowly walking almost directly toward me, resting my rifle on the side of my make shift blind and he just kept walking. I shot again and he put it in gear and sped up. Then I shot a third time and he went to warp speed and made for the tree line beside me. I looked for that deer for 4 hours with no luck. Again, I'm sure I hit it. That was with my 8x57 with 150 grain Hornady Interlocks. Stuff like that will destroy your faith in humanity, I tell ya.
After a couple more incidents like that, with various bullets I pretty well have circled the wagons and I only use those three for hunting. I do have one exception. I have a 9.3x62 that I've killed one deer with (Actually only shot at one deer with) that I do use a Speer bullet in, a 270 grain Hot Core that I was very impressed with. But for everything else I'm afraid to venture out past those few bullets. I really want to try Accubonds and a few more but when it comes down to it, I just fear trying anything on game. Ain't that crazy?
As for my 7mm Rem. Mag. I shoot 160 grain Sierra Game Kings. It's an old Savage Model 110 pre accu trigger and the most accurate rifle I own. Those 160s hit like a freight train and at 2900 FPS will put down what you shoot at in a hurry a long way out there, or as far as I'll shoot, which is only about 400 yards..
Last edited by Filaman; 04/16/19.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
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DF,
I suppose you are correct, sir. I paid $600 for mine used at Cabelas on sale as it had been in stock for a while. I could not tell it had ever been fired. Sure doesn’t look that way now. Shot under 1” at 100 at the range yesterday. Could not beat the bug hole group from ‘06 with 165 TSX. 😎. Happy Trails
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF That's what I'm hoping, though I still haven't had a chance to get down there and check. Soon, I hope.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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....the 7WB loaded with a 150/160 NAB and a scope with an elevation dial strikes me as one of the best choices for sitting on a mountain saddle in the Rockies with 600+ yards of possibility in front of you....... Sho' got that right!! A properly loaded 7 Rem Mag is equally capable. There's not that much difference between them. +/- 100 fps. Jerry Not equally reliable. One day a good ‘ole trusty “7Mag” will go off its rocker & there won’t be any fix for it. I have seen it happen numerous times.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF That's what I'm hoping, though I still haven't had a chance to get down there and check. Soon, I hope. Tell those guys the market is a bit soft on those kinda guns, the trend is to black rifles. I'm sure they know that, just won't hurt to remind them as you beat them up over the price... That lets them know that you know... And as you get around to closing the deal, make them throw in several boxes of ammo, brass, whatever, to sweeten the deal. If that gun is a slow mover, the ammo and components probably slow as well. You may come out OK. DF
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF That's what I'm hoping, though I still haven't had a chance to get down there and check. Soon, I hope. Tell those guys the market is a bit soft on those kinda guns, the trend is to black rifles. I'm sure they know that, just won't hurt to remind them as you beat them up over the price... That lets them know that you know... And as you get around to closing the deal, make them throw in several boxes of ammo, brass, whatever, to sweeten the deal. If that gun is a slow mover, the ammo and components probably slow as well. You may come out OK. DF You want to hear the craziest part? They have two of the same exact rifles in stock.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I went in to my local gun shop in 2005 to buy a .22 for my daughter. I spotted a Ruger 77/22 MK II All Weather with boat paddle stock & told the guy to "hand me that now!" I put it under my arm and purchased a nice Marlin Model 60 S.S. for my daughter. Asked the guy about the Ruger & stated that I had not seen one of them anywhere on dealers shelves for 10 years. He said they had discovered it in the darkest corner of their storage rack after it had fallen off the backside & into the abyss for 8 years!
The gun loves Remington Viper ammo & has killed many soda cans at 85 yards.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF That's what I'm hoping, though I still haven't had a chance to get down there and check. Soon, I hope. Tell those guys the market is a bit soft on those kinda guns, the trend is to black rifles. I'm sure they know that, just won't hurt to remind them as you beat them up over the price... That lets them know that you know... And as you get around to closing the deal, make them throw in several boxes of ammo, brass, whatever, to sweeten the deal. If that gun is a slow mover, the ammo and components probably slow as well. You may come out OK. DF You want to hear the craziest part? They have two of the same exact rifles in stock. Just for schits and giggles,try the "buy one get one free" deal.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF That's what I'm hoping, though I still haven't had a chance to get down there and check. Soon, I hope. Tell those guys the market is a bit soft on those kinda guns, the trend is to black rifles. I'm sure they know that, just won't hurt to remind them as you beat them up over the price... That lets them know that you know... And as you get around to closing the deal, make them throw in several boxes of ammo, brass, whatever, to sweeten the deal. If that gun is a slow mover, the ammo and components probably slow as well. You may come out OK. DF You want to hear the craziest part? They have two of the same exact rifles in stock. I think that helps reinforce your argument. DF
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Campfire Tracker
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I would like to see Weatherby chambering the .270 & 7 mm mags in their Vanguard line.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I would like to see Weatherby bring back the .224 Wby.
Life Member SCI
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Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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I would like to see Weatherby bring back the .224 Wby. That would be fun. Stray Dog, I'm with you, I would really like to see Weatherby offer more of their calibers in the Vanguard.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I would like to see a 220 Weatherby Rocket with a 7.5 twist. It would be fun for the first 800 or so rounds.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Especially one that has been in the store for several years. A car that old would be sold as “used”. DF That's what I'm hoping, though I still haven't had a chance to get down there and check. Soon, I hope. Tell those guys the market is a bit soft on those kinda guns, the trend is to black rifles. I'm sure they know that, just won't hurt to remind them as you beat them up over the price... That lets them know that you know... And as you get around to closing the deal, make them throw in several boxes of ammo, brass, whatever, to sweeten the deal. If that gun is a slow mover, the ammo and components probably slow as well. You may come out OK. DF If they take your money for that 7mm, they can but 2 Sig 365's. Those will sell in a week or two, making them more money that that Weatherby did. They can continue to reinvest the principle every two weeks, making a few buck each time. The gun you buy, it will be a big $ loser for them, time to stop bleeding. Unfortunately, I hate that kind if marketing, I like the places that stock what I might want. Not what turns over. But no modern store operates like that anymore.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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He didn't seem too interested in 'wheeling and dealing'. As I don't think the rifles are going anywhere anytime soon, I'm gonna wait and see if I draw a decent tag, and maybe(maybe) go ahead and buy one anyway.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Gotcha. Good luck with getting a tag.
Life Member SCI
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Gotcha. Good luck with getting a tag. Ken, thank you! How did you do? NM results are out already? I wish Idaho would get with the !@#$% program and have the draws earlier in the year. We don't even put in until sometime in May?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I got a deer and javelina tag and my son got a cow elk tag. Been thinking of using my custom and factory 7x57's for the deer and don't know yet what I'll use for the javelina. Of course the choices for the deer hunt will change about 1000 times and then some more. My son wants to use my .30 Gibbs for his cow elk hunt.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I got a deer and javelina tag and my son got a cow elk tag. Been thinking of using my custom and factory 7x57's for the deer and don't know yet what I'll use for the javelina. Of course the choices for the deer hunt will change about 1000 times and then some more. My son wants to use my .30 Gibbs for his cow elk hunt. That doesn't sound bad at all! What kind of deer? You guys have mostly Mule Deer?? Do you hunt much with your son?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The area I hunt is mostly mule deer with some Texas whitetail here and there. Have yet to see one where I hunt,but do see them on the drive out where the homes are next to the road. Not as much as I would like,but we do go hunting and shooting.
Life Member SCI
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Ranger
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Good luck to you and your son with your hunts this fall!
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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