Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 8x57 for Elk

I am going elk hunting in early December. Does anyone have a favorite elk load for the 8x57? I'm thinking either a 200 gr partition at around 2,500, or a 175 Sierra around 2,800. i have a really accurate load with 170 gr SSTs at around 2,850 using CFE223, however I don't feel like that is a good elk bullet. At least not at the ranges that I'm used to shooting elk at. Which is usually around 50-200ish yards.

I'd look at the Partition, or either of the protected point Weldcores. I haven't used them in 8x57, but I've used them in other 8mms and I'd probably start with the Weldcore.

180 grn. Nosler bt.

I've never used Weldcores and don't know much about them. Nosler recommends the BT for deer only. Of course Hornady recommends the SST for elk in 8mm, so there you go. Anyway, I like the idea of the ballistic tip, I'm just not sold on them. I've heard a lot of bad stories about them. I know that they have been redesigned, but still. I don't get to go elk hunting much anymore and I would like to stack things in my favor.

Interesting you posted this, as I`m thinking of the same problem, with the same bullets you mentioned. I`m leaning to the 175 Sierra Pro-Hunters...I`ve used them a lot on deer here, and took that bullet and cartridge to Africa my first trip. At 2800fps using 4320 the load is very accurate, and killed everything I pointed the gun at. I also killed my last Elk with my 8mm06 AI using that bullet. Broke offside shoulder and lodged aginst the hide.
I`ve not used Weldcore, but my second choice would be either a 200 Accubond or Partition.
Agree on the 170 SST, just don`t know on Elk, but have killed water jugs to 600. Very accurate.
Do you have the 700 Classic? or something else?

I have a good friend that swears by the SST in his centerfires.

I had a few conundrums with them, but found the FTX stellar, so I think perhaps my " problems" were more my fault than the bullet.

I have harvested elk with hot cors in the 8 x 57. It was my first rifle, and yet one of my most accurate. It is a pre war post office issued nazi Mauser model 98.

I will look up the load when I get outside.

Yes, I have a 700 classic. I also have a K98k and an M48 Yugo with a Douglas barrel. I usually hunt with the Yugo. I'm not sure why, but the 700 classic is bad luck. Whenever it is in my hands I don't see any game. Kinda weird really. On the other hand, whenever I have the Yugo with me I see lots of stuff I want to shoot. I've never hunted with the K98 and probably won't. It will be made into something else at some point. Right now it is in full battle dress and kinda heavy with those awful leaf sights. My eyes don't work well enough anymore for those.

Yep I've killed steel plates out to 500 with the SSTs, but I had a really nasty failure with some SSTs out of my 7-08 on whitetail a few years ago and they just aren't my favorite bullets. Too much meat damage.

I feel better about the Pro Hunters after reading your testimonial.

I've had decent luck with the 170 gr Hot Cors as well. Just never on elk sized game.

You're talking about 200 yards or so on the outside. Why not load up the 200 Partition to full power and be done?

The 180 grain Hornady GMX or the 200 grain Nosler Partition are both good.

I killed a nice bull with 170 grain SSTs 3 years ago and I will not try it again on elk. Good for deer, but penetration was less then I like and one of the bullets came apart leaving only the jacket and penetrating only about 14".

I have used the 200 grain Partition with perfect results in the past and so I will likely go back to that in the future but I put together some loads with the GMX and they shoot under MOA so I am confident they would do fine too, despite the fact I have never killed an elk with one of them. They shoot a bit flatter, and with 95 to 100% weight retention, I feel confident in saying they will go through too. Complete penetration with an exit is my goal and weight retention is one way to gain penetration, but if I get a good wound channel of reasonable diameter and an exit in a fairly straight line, I am satisfied with the load.

My 8X57 is a full-stocked carbine and with only an 19" barrel I give up a bit of velocity. My best loads shoot super well, but most times they are not "red-hot" and the rifle seems to shoot it's best at about 2400-2500. But with 180 and 200 grain bullets.

I find the 200 grain Speer shoots to the same point of impact and is just as accurate as the 200 grain Nosler, and that is my main reason for choosing the Nosler 200 gr Partition as my hunting bullet. I shoot the Speer, sometimes up to 1000 per year, as a practice round and then I need only buy 1 box of Partitions for killing game. This is typical of the accuracy I get from both the Speer and the Nosler.
PC070001 by .com/photos/156296479N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]
PC070002 by .com/photos/156296479N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]
I have found the Speer to be very prone to come apart too, which on deer and antelope is not a big deal because even when it comes apart it's still large enough to exit.
Here is a picture of one of them sectioned to show the jacket thickness. It's next to a 270 Remington bullet made in the 1970s
PA130001 by .com/photos/156296479N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]

However I get a lot less fragments and ruined meat with the Partitions, so I'd even stick with them for hunting small deer just because I don't need to use anything else. I can do all my practice with the Speers and just shoot Noslers for game. I had an 8X57 which I used when I was in my 20s and for some (dumb) reason I let it go, but I did kill several head of game with it. I made the short barreled carbine for myself about 6 years ago, and have killed deer, antelope and elk with it too.

40 years ago I used some 185 grain Remington Core-Lokts and they did very well for me, but Remington has stopped selling them, so I am back to the 200 grain Partitions.
As I said, I have full confidence in the 180 grain GMX too, but that is just from tests in saturated news paper with cow bones. So far I have not killed an elk with one.

I was using sierra pro hunter 175 grain. # 2410

I M R 3031 regular primers.

Correction to above post.

Good question. That is probably what I will end up doing.

Anyone have a magic load with Partitions? Say 2,600-2,650 fps?

That load I showed in the pics above would be a very good place to start. 46.0 of 4064 with the 200 grain Nosler.
It's slower in my rifle, than many others, but remember my rifle has a short barrel.

Your rifle may be faster.

But even being on the slow side, I can tell you that with the 200 gr Nosler Partition, it's very good for filling freezers with elk meat. And as you can see from the pics it's quite accurate. Around 5/8" at about 100 yards is what I expect from it if the rifle has a good bore and chamber.

(My range is set at 107 yards because the gully in front of the berm is at 100 ,and targets are below ground level there)

My only comment on SSTs is that I’ve seen core-jacket separation on a couple of occasions on deer and elk from two 7mm’s. Dead critters but did not exit.

PA110001 by .com/photos/156296479N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]

I agree.
In my opinion SSTs are deer bullets and not even always the best bullet for bigger deer. Depends of the caliber and bullet weight of course, but I have tried them in 270 Winchester, 8X57 and 338, and so far I am not overly impressed with their penetrating qualities.

For accuracy they are superb, and I'll give them their due in that department. My 270, my 8X57 and my 308 all shoot SSTs into ragged hole groups at 107 yards. In the case of my 8X57 it's been the most accurate bullet I have ever used.

The 2 fired bullets in the picture above were fired from my 8X57 and recovered from a bull elk. One stayed together and it's weight in the picture is 129 grains. The other is an empty jacket and it weighs 39 grains.
I have 2 others from the same rifle fried into large mule deer and I only recovered the jackets.

I used the 140 grain from the 270 and it failed to exit a large mule deer doe. Instant death, but I get that from bullets that exit too.

My friend Bob used the 225 grain from his 338 mag and killed a rag-horn bull elk, and again we recovered only the jacket. That elk was tracked down after the hit and it ran about 150 yards through the trees before falling. It was a bit challenging to track him because there was very little blood.

I always want exits if I can get them with my elk rifles.

They're a bonded protected point (and other designs) soft made for near-100% weight retention originally designed for use on African plains game and large Asian game. They are comparable to something like an A-Frame, but easier to load since they don't ramp up pressures and require special data the way an A-Frame does.

A number of online vendors sell them in the US.

Two of the instances I mentioned above looked just like the jacket remains in the photo above. No trace of exit or core. I’m just not into picking lead shards out of my meat. Happy Trails

I will start there for sure.



Thanks. I will look into that also.

szihn ,you sure RP quit selling the 185's? Seems like I bought a couple bags 2 years back. Haven't loaded them yet in my 700 Classic as I just use it on deer so it gets 150 gr Hornady SP's. MB

Yea...I got a bag too, Calela`s I believe, a few years ago. Could never get them to shoot "just right". I`m sure I`m nit picking.
Also tried some 175 btsp Prvi`s. They shot well, but are very soft IMHO. I killed two deer with them a few years back. Big holes in and out. dropped them now.

HadsDad..hear you on lucky rifles.. mine is called Killer.

Mathman...I`ve boxes of Partitions in various calibers, including 8mm, but have never used any on game. Hard headed I think.

I've used Hornady 195gr or Nosler 200gr AccuBonds for some years now in both my 8X57 Husqvarnas and my Kimber MT 325 and had good results from either.

In my 8X57 I usually load 51gr IMR 4350 and the Nosler AB. It would be a great elk-whacker. I DON'T RECOMMEND ANY LOADS! Work yours up safely.

IMR 4064 is also a great powder for the 8X57, IMO. I'm sure some of the newer powders are better, but I'm well stocked with the old standards.

Yep.

Have you used the 8mm BT on elk? What were the results?

Magnum Bob, where did you find them?
I tried to get some a few years back and they were not available. I talked to someone at Midway and they told me Remington had quit selling them. So I was under the impression that it was nation wide.

I liked my old 8x57! Looking at my old reloading notes, I use very similar loading data for mine. Killed deer, coyotes and jack rabbits with it out of an old German Mauser. Then I got to reading all the gun magazine articles about how great the 8-06 was and had it rechambered. That's a great gun too, but now, I kind of wish I had left it as an 8x57. Fads come and go, got to be careful what you do.

What did you use to cut a bullet in half?

Did you cut a FTX and take a picture?

As in are they different than an SST?

Thanks!

I also agree with mathman if you only plan on a 200 yard shot a 200 grain bullet would be a logical choice!

szihn, I got them from 1 st stop gun in RC SD. I'll check and see if they have anymore or you might call them 605 341-5211. I believe they got them thru BH Shooter Supply wholesaler here locally. I checked and the BHS chat guy says they were discontinued. Call the number.MB

Angus1895, I use a 32 TPI hack saw, but the Trick is how I hold them. I drill and ream a piece of steel at just over bullet diameter. As an example for the 8MM bullet I make a hole of .325" in the steel. It has to hold about 2/3 of the bullet. I then split the side of the steel with the saw so if I clamp it in a vice it collapses and gets smaller.
So, I insert the bullet to about 2/3 deep in the hole and then clamp the steel in my vice. That holds the bullet tight and I slit the bullet down to the steel. I release the bullet and turn it so the other side it up, and I can see the saw slot. I saw again from the other direction to that slot. Drag the bullet across a file to clean off the saw tooth marks and you can see the thickness of both core and jacket.

I have sectioned a lot of bullets including the FTX made for the 30-30 (140 grain) The FTX and the GMX are made very similarly but the FTX cavity is wider for the somewhat lower velocities it's made to expand at. I loaded some of those in my 300 savage M99. My idea was to have better expansion at longer range for antelope hunting. I shoot a 150 grain Remington Core-Lokt zeroed at 200 yards and that is just fine for any deer of antelope, but I started to wonder how the lighter and more aerodynamic 140 gr wold do. I am going to shoot some at paper soon. The savage shoots a lot better then it should with the 150s, so I don't think I'll change, but if the 140 FTX do as well they may be a bit better bullet to use on elk because they will retain 95% of more of their weight, where the 150s I use usually loos about 1/3. Testing is not done yet.

Frangible bullets like the ballistic tip are probably not the best bet for elk.

Ballistic Tips are not all frangible.

I normally use 4064 or RL-15 for 150s, CFE223 for 170s and 175s, and H4895 for the heavy stuff.

I'm going to try 4064, 4350, N150 and RL-17 to try and find the best balance of accuracy and velocity.

(edit to add): I just got off the phone with my outfitter. I need to be prepared to shoot up to 400 yards. He says that is uncommon, but possible. So, I may have to take my 8x68s instead.

I shot my first elk with a borrowed 8X57. The ammo was borrowed too, I don’t remember what it was. 50 yards broadside in the lungs with iron sights, most ammo would work for that.

The Nosler 180 E-Tip might be worth a try as well.

There is nothing wrong with the 8x57 if you can tolerate the rainbow trajectory. In timber it won’t matter I suppose. Happy Trails

WAM,

The old 8x57 shoots without the "rainbow trajectory" IF it's loaded to the usual European specs. = American ammo countries DOWNLOAD the 8x57 for use in weaker rifles & for those DIMWITS who CAN'T/WON'T READ THE INFORMATION on what they buy..

Otoh, SOME European companies load the old 8x57mm to ABOVE the usual USA factory .30-06 specs.

yours, tex

Tex,
My trajectory assumption was from previously looking at American made ammo specs.
Cheers,,
WAM

I remember wanting to make my 8x57 ackley improved.

My uncle was laffin.....

Don't screw with he said, them Germans knew what they were doing........

Meh. I'm not a fan of mono metals in standard cartridges. I feel like the velocity window is too small on cartridges like the 8mm. It really isn't a speed demon. I might try the 160 Barnes, but I doubt it.

WAM,

IF European spec ammo wasn't commonly available in the USA, I would have agreed with you.

yours, tex

Do they make a 180 grain Partition? I load the 175 Pro Hunter. But I don't hunt elk with it. If I ever do get to go elk hunting it won't be with my 8x57. I mean I believe with the right bullet it would do the job, but I have too many rifles that are better suited for elk. However, if I ever do hunt elk with it I'll load a Partition or something.

So the FTX is built not like an SST?

Good to know, thanks!

Correct, the FTX has no lead core.

Correct, the FTX has no lead core.

A partition is never a wrong answer for normal hunting applications. I myself, would probably lean towards a 195gr Hornady IL at 8x57 velocities, then a BT.
My first choice would be a mono of some type, even in the 8x57.

No. They only make a 200 gr partition in 8mm. I have plenty of other rifles that are better suited as well. I have just been on an 8x57 kick for the last couple of years. I shot a nice red stag and a scimitar horned oryx with it a couple of years ago, and it is a hammer on deer and pigs. It is plenty of rifle for elk. Just not necessarily a 400 yard elk rifle.

you never go wrong with a Partition for Elk but in my experience and lots of testing for Penetration vs expansion comparing elk bullets. The Accubond is the clear cut winner for expansion and weight retention.

The Partition will always explode quick and then drive the base deep. The Accubond always expands within a few inches(getting into the vitals) but holds more weight with the lead bonded to the jacket driving deep as the Partition but expanding where you need it; not premature like the partition can do sometimes when going through a big shoulder.

Dont get me wrong, most bullets will kill elk if you put them in the right spot however lots of mixed results with other bullets. In a 8x57 go with the 200Accubond and sleep well knowing you have the best option regardless of the shot angle that is presented!
Happy Hunting
James

Thanks for that

Might check the Hornady website. It's pretty clear that the FTX does have a lead core.

Patented Flex Tip® Bullet Technology

Upon impact, the soft tip compresses into the bullet, initiating immediate expansion across a wide range of velocities. Safe to shoot in tubular magazines as well as any other firearm.
InterLock® Ring

The one-piece, high antimony lead core of the FTX® is mechanically locked to the jacket with an InterLock ring. This, along with a specially designed jacket, results in reliable performance and maximum weight retention for deep penetration on large or heavy-bodied game animals.
Ballistically Efficient Secant Ogive

Pioneered by Hornady,® the secant ogive profile delivers stability, flat trajectories and amazing accuracy.
Specially Engineered Jacket

The heavy jacket over the shank of the bullet combined with our proven InterLock® design controls expansion and enhances accuracy.

Thanks south Texas.

But is it much different from the SST?

Is it the base?

The FTX has a soft polymer tip. Made for use in rifles with tubular magazines Probably not a good choice for elk

Yup you guys are right.
I am using the wrong letters. It's the flex tip 30-30 bullet that is an expanding solid. I went back and checked the box. My mistake.
The ones I have loaded are the Flex Tip Mono. made for the 30-30.

I would not agree yet that it will not be a good elk bullet, but as I said I am not done with the tests yet. I am loading it in a 300 Savage and all my shots would be at 300 and less because of where I would hunt with the old rifle, and the fact that it has only a peep sight and no scope.
If I find I do not get the depth of penetration I want from an elk round (and I may not) I would then agree with SouthTexas.

Szihn: I don’t see any flex tip monos on Hornadys website. The FTX bullets, for tubular magazines are all lead core. The GMX bullets are monos but don’t have flex tips. What am I missing?

What I am trying to weed thru my weak mind is I wonder are SST and FTX almost identical in their construction.

Here is a link to the bullet I am talking about.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-expanding-boat-tail-lead-free-box-of-50

It's made for the 30-30 and for use in tubular magazines, but it also works fine in other types of mags. As I said above, I am trying it in a Savage 99 with the rotary mag. I am testing it to see if I think it would be good for elk hunting or it the expansion will be to "wide" and keep the bullet from penetrating very deep.

I'll let you know when I get this all done, but it may be another month before I can finsih.

Ahh..I see it now. It's listed as a "Monoflex". thanks. Will look forward to your results.

I have had good results with the FTX 160 in the 300 savage for cow elk.

I use the ones cantilever for the 308 marlin express.

Angus, out of curiosity, I would like to ask if you got an exit with that FTX and what angel and range the elk was when you shot it?
Also if you know the aprox muzzle velocity of your load?

[align:left][/align]If there was an exit I don't recall I know some were No exit. They were chest front leg shots . Between 275 to 400 yards. I harvested 5 so far. Broke the front leg on two.

All broadside shots.

I use 43 grains lever lotion, with a Remington 9.5 primer. IN THE 300 SAVAGE model 99.

Never got a chronograph on the load that I remember. But let me look . I will share the load when I go out to the man cave in the morning.

Just one more note:
I see the post where the outfitter says you may need to shoot 400 yards.
So I want to make 2 points.

You may need to shoot 400 yards? Well that could be I guess, but I have hunted elk for over 40 years in several different states and I don't know exactly how many I have killed, but in all of them I can tell you the exact number of elk I killed at 400 yards or a bit more
It's exactly 1. At about 410 yards.

Point #2 is this: Who said you can't do well with a 8X57 at 400 yards?
The 8X57 in a strong action will do just about everything the 30-06 will do with bullets of 170-200 comparing them to the 30 cals of 165 to 200, grains, and the 30-06 is just fine at 400. In fact, that's not even a challenge for it.

The Germans used the 8X57 very successfully for a sniper's weapon in 2 World Wars. It's accuracy even at 2 X that distance (and sometimes more) is not in question, and with a 180 grain GMX you have expansion to an impact velocity of down to 2000 FPS and with the Nosler Partition you can extend that to about 1600 fps. So the 8X57, firing them at top speeds with safe pressures will give you good expansion with the GMX to just about 400 yards exactly, and the Nosler Partition will go clear out past 500 yards.

American read too many gun-rags and get an impression that anything made more then 15 years ago just can't work anymore.
But the track records of many of the older guns and shells proves otherwise.
If you shoot the 8X57 better then you do your 8X68 I would still use the 8X57. I have experience with the 8X68 too, and I have nothing bad to say about it. But if you favor the way the smaller rifle feels don't handicap yourself with the paranoia of thought that you can't shoot 400 yards with an 8X57, you sure can and it will do it well.

I think my 8 X 57 post office Mauser with a 25 inch tapered barrel to be comparable to a 30 06 in every way!

Just a wee bit heavier than a Husky rifle in 30 06,

I think weight is important to a fat old man puffing around trying to climb mountains.

For your first point I agree. I've never shot an elk past about 225 yards. I am just trying to be prepared for what the outfitter is telling me.

As to your second point. Nosler literature says that the Partition needs 1,800 fps impact speed. So really I was just going by what Nosler has printed. If it has satisfactory performance at 1,600 I'm good. With a close to max charge of Ramshot Big Game and a 200 gr Partiton I am getting right at 2,550 fps and under 1" groups so I should be good even if I need 1,800 fps.

I have killed a lot of steel plates at 500 yards with my 8x57. But, I normally do it with the 170 gr SST at 2,800 fps. In fact I'm really bummed out that the SST isn't a good elk bullet, because it shoots so well in my rifle. Additionally, If I didn't think that it was enough rifle for elk I wouldn't be taking it. It is hands down my favorite hunting rifle and I know that it is plenty of gun for elk. I shot a pretty decent size red stag with it about a year and a half ago and it worked great.

I do feel that 400 yards is the outer limit of the 8x57's range on animals requiring heavier bullets. The 8x57 just doesn't have the case capacity to really sling a heavy, low BC bullet much past 400 yards and guarantee reliable expansion.

LOL. I totally agree with this

I think you should use whatever rifle you shoot well. Just accept the limitations of the 8x57 if that’s what you choose. I would not fret about core separation with that cartridge at the modest velocity it produces. Any expanding bullet placed well will kill an elk. Personally, I use the biggest .30 that I shoot comfortably that being a .300 Weatherby. When I hunted mixed timber I killed elk and deer quite adequately with my .308 Win. Hunting more open mountains, the .308 and such run out of gas way before the .300 Roy does. Most elk I have taken were inside 250 yards, however. But I would be prepared for the 400 yard opportunity also. That’s why I shoot 300 and 400 yard gongs after verifying zero before the hunt. There are a few spots where we hunt that are over a mile in with pretty rugged terrain for an old man and offer shooting opportunities generally less than 200 yards. That’s when I carry my lightweight .30-06 which is almost 3 pounds lighter than the .300 Wby. Good luck on your quest,

I agree with this. I just really want to kill one with my 8x57. I know it is not ideal given the possibility of 400 yard shots, but I shoot it better than any of my other rifles. If I had to drop down to a two rifle battery to hunt anything in the world, it would be my 8x57 and my 375 H&H. Those two rifles get more use than anything else in the safe. However, options are nice and only having two rifles would be boring.

After talking to a few people via PM, I think that I am going to eliminate the heavy bullets. so no 195,196 or 200 grain .323 bullets. That leaves 170 Hot Cor, the 175 Sierra Pro Hunter, and the 180 Nosler Ballistic Tip. I am leaning heavily toward the Nosler Ballistic tip mainly because Mule Deer recommended it. Does anyone have any experience with the 8mm Ballistic tip on elk?

I completely understand. I’ve never killed an elk with my .30-06 either, but would like to do so this year.

I can’t speak from experience with the 8x57 on elk, but a friend’s dad killed all manner of hogs and deer with his using Ballistic Tips for many years. He used to wait until two hogs were in line and kill both with one shot, I’m told. If it’ll shoot through a good sized hog, it should do fine on elk. I think a BT should be fine at 8x57 velocity, not so much with an 8mm Remington Magnum. Looking forward to your report after the hunt. Happy Trails