Reports are out that one of the commissioners who voted against a Saturday firearms deer opener last week, has stepped down.
It was a five to three vote and Jim Daley, who was said to have been one of the three who voted to keep the Monday opener, has apparently resigned. I believe he'd pointed out that the commissioner's own polling had indicated a majority of those responding, opposed the change..There are some current newspaper polls going on, that also show a majority of those responding, oppose the change. Interesting stuff.
Haven't actually read anything yet that he did step down, but the game commission web site now shows Daley's district as "vacant"?
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
The PGC did in fact offer two (2) polls on the subject and BOTH showed hunters (whom fund the PGC) did indeed have a majority AGAINST a Saturday opener. Just another example of how little respect the PGC has for the very people whom fund all game programs. FUGG them, get rid of them all combine agencies.And FUGG the PFSC too while your at it!!!
What's the reason for the push to keep the opener on a Monday?
Is the season planned to be opened two days earlier or five days later than in the past? Is the last day of the season to remain the same or is the season still going to be X days long?
Right, I guess when he signed up he expected every vote he cast to be followed in lock step by the others? He quit and left the opportunity for his position to be filled by someone who can be manipulated. One of the biggest problems we have these days is quitters.
Looking at the big picture, just so you can relate, this is not that big of a deal. What would he have done when the hard votes needed cast? He quit....
What's the reason for the push to keep the opener on a Monday?
Is the season planned to be opened two days earlier or five days later than in the past? Is the last day of the season to remain the same or is the season still going to be X days long?
They added a 13th day, 2 days earlier than the previous opener.
What's the reason for the push to keep the opener on a Monday?
Is the season planned to be opened two days earlier or five days later than in the past? Is the last day of the season to remain the same or is the season still going to be X days long?
I don't care what day they open it, but here is the cliff notes version.
The Monday opener after Thanksgiving is much the same as a traditional State holiday among many. Been that way for what seems like forever. Much the same as December 25th. December 25th may fall on any day of the week, but the 25th is the 25th and the Monday after Thanksgiving is "the" Monday, and that Monday is the Deer season opener. For those who don't want the change, the reason is tradition. Nothing more, nothing less. It is their tradition, and I suspect those following will come to think a Saturday opener is their tradition and will be resistant to change.
If we ever get to hunt on Sunday, watch what will happen. "Why can't Saturday be a traveling day and I won't have to take off work on Friday. Sunday should be the opener, it makes sense in that it is the first day of the week." Waaa, Waaa, Waaa, Waaa!!!!
I live in MN. I hunt in MN, WI, and SD (When I can). MN and WI have STRONG opening weekend traditions. Where I hunt in MN there is a 16 day season. WI has a 9 day season. Overall I would give the edge to WI as far as "gung-ho" on deer hunting. Most go for the 9 days since it falls over Thanksgiving.
I just can't imagine not wanting more days to hunt. I know in WI the bow hunters piss and moan like they own the place because some gun hunters want the season to start one weekend earlier so we can catch some of the rut with the rifle hunters. But for the most part we get along. I would say the biggest issues that WI hunters argue about is baiting. I won't get into that here because it would go off on a tangent of it's own.
From a guy that has hunted NY and PA for many decades, the change from a Sat opener to Saturday is a BIG deal. NY shifted to a Saturday opener several years ago. The impact was significant, and not positive. Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side. Historically, "the guys" would start showing up in camp on Friday. There was time to cook up a big perch fry, maybe have a couple extra drinks, and have time to recover stay up a late night, or two, playing cards, sight in your firearms, repair whatever need fixing, visit other camps, and generally catch up with old friend and relatives. Much of this disappeared with the Monday opener. Guys work thru Friday and show up late, a fast food dinner, and out hunting at zero dark thirty. It made a real change for the worse at my camp, as well as several others that I visit. Lastly, one of the states arguments was that the change would sell more licenses, attract more hunters. Just did not happen. The population of folks that prize the hunt, with the kill being secondary, continues to decline. The breed just gets grayer, and slowly disappears into the sunset. Pennsylvania's situation is doubly absurd, open on a Sat, but no hunting on Sunday???
Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years. It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone..... Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
I am also, but as many here have mentioned all that socialization and camp back and forth has pretty much diminished here in Pa. The Deer are part of the problem, in that over time they moved to the better feed and down to the farms and more urban areas. These days they are more closer to home than in the past.
Then many of those that complain are different than their Parents and Grandparents, who would take off a week or so to go to camp. Not so many of todays crew want to make or take the time. Many of whom are only wanting to live the dream of going to the Northwoods for a week. Those long gone in my family would go and rent a Northwoods barn to hunt out of for a week before they got their own camp.
I am old enough to remmber when those positions were elected not appointed by the Govenor, hunters had a much larger say in the way things went. We OWN all the Pa. Gameland not the Pa.Game Comission it is they whom we elected at one time to manage them. Now the openings are political appointees whom in return offer every job that opens to family members and friends of the Comissioners themselves which has led to this mess....we have biologists whom have never hunted nor spend more than a very occasional day outdoors in charge of the game, season dates, etc. more than half of them (all employees including the Bunny Cops) need to look on their phones to see what kind of duck is sitting on the pond. Last year I killed two black ducks and a WCO tried to tell me they were female mallards...fuggging idiots. FIRE THEM ALL!
Many believe this a hew part in reducing the deer herd even further along with increasing doe tag allotments in tye WMU's. Not saying I support tjis thought or not. Just v saying what may believe.
From a guy that has hunted NY and PA for many decades, the change from a Sat opener to Saturday is a BIG deal. NY shifted to a Saturday opener several years ago. The impact was significant, and not positive. Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side. Historically, "the guys" would start showing up in camp on Friday. There was time to cook up a big perch fry, maybe have a couple extra drinks, and have time to recover stay up a late night, or two, playing cards, sight in your firearms, repair whatever need fixing, visit other camps, and generally catch up with old friend and relatives. Much of this disappeared with the Monday opener. Guys work thru Friday and show up late, a fast food dinner, and out hunting at zero dark thirty. It made a real change for the worse at my camp, as well as several others that I visit. Lastly, one of the states arguments was that the change would sell more licenses, attract more hunters. Just did not happen. The population of folks that prize the hunt, with the kill being secondary, continues to decline. The breed just gets grayer, and slowly disappears into the sunset. Pennsylvania's situation is doubly absurd, open on a Sat, but no hunting on Sunday???
Funny. Everybody I know likes the Saturday opener. The VAST MAJORITY of NY deer hunters don't hunt out of a camp. I love the Saturday opener myself. Had to work too many openers when it was Monday.
I have to also agree with Fishdog, Here in Michigan theres talk of going to a Sat. opener also! they think they will sell more tags, they might but instead of staying a week or 3-4 days the guys will come up friday night hunt sat, & sun morining then go home! Tag sales are all ready down 20% last year! our deer hunting is dieing with us Fellows!
Probably because the cost of living has increased by quite a bit in recent years. people can't afford to take a lot of time off.
I don't know, those boys wanted to hunt the Northwoods. One group I knew at one time bought a couple hundred Northwood acres back around 1920 with no road into it. So, they cut their own for around 12 miles, thru State land I might add, try that today. Now they had to take a train which got them only close. The train dropped them off next to the closest road and then a farmer and his mule wagon took them up the mountain and down into the valley on the road they cut and to their land. Stayed in tents until they could get a cabin built. After a couple weeks it reversed and the farmer left them off to wait for a train to take them back to Wilkinsburg.
Eventually the road they cut became the only road up to the top of the mountain. The land they bought is now surrounded by State Forest and the State tried for years to get them out. Eventually a few of them became connected and the State gave up. The camp has been rebuilt a couple times and is top shelf. Most of the new crew are out and gone by Tuesday.
Commissioners have been appointed by a Governor and approved by the Senate for a very long time.
Up until a few years ago, they were eight year appointments. So commissioners tended to serve beyond the tenure of a Governor that had appointed them. Now, their terms are four years, with extensions based on approval of the Senate, IF the Governor puts them up for another term.
That is more political influence than we'd ever had and it was the direct result of malcontents whining to the legislature, demanding they take more control over deer management. So this is the primary cause of the phugged up mess we have now. We now have fewer hunters in the legislature, than at any time since I've been around. They don't know a damn thing about deer or wildlife management, but they do know what it takes to get re-elected: Grease the squeaky wheel that makes all the noise.
I know several of the deer biologists that work for the PGC. All but one of them hunts deer and always has. And every damn one of them spends more time afield, than most of our casual (two or three day) deer hunters do, many of whom think that makes them deer experts..
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
That is more political influence than we'd ever had and it was the direct result of malcontents whining to the legislature, demanding they take more control over deer management..
Odd that deer season opener is the time to catch up with friends, hang out etc. Seems friends could find time to do that, even if there were no deer season.
Saturday openers allow more parents to take their kids afield so they can enjoy opening morning with less schedule conflicts (school). Start hunting whichever day you want. N.Y. moving to Saturday was a great thing for many people. Just a bunch of old farts looking to find something to complain about.
Not all that odd, when many of those friends we share deer seasons with each year live near your hunting camp, that's four or more hours from your home and you only see them a few times per year when you're there? If you've been hunting with them in the same places for decades, farmers and others that live near that camp have long ago become friends.
Because not everyone has the same hunting traditions, maybe it's too much to expect someone to figure out what is important to others, if it doesn't happen to fit their idea of how deer seasons are supposed to be enjoyed? Might be a regional thing, or differences from state to state. I wouldn't ridicule how others do things, not really sure why some feel compelled to do that to someone else?
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
Odd that deer season opener is the time to catch up with friends, hang out etc. Seems friends could find time to do that, even if there were no deer season.
It’s no more odd than getting together with the same family and friends for Thanksgiving or Christmas or Independence Day or Festivus, or ... year in and year out.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Saturday openers allow more parents to take their kids afield so they can enjoy opening morning with less schedule conflicts (school). Start hunting whichever day you want. N.Y. moving to Saturday was a great thing for many people. Just a bunch of old farts looking to find something to complain about.
The PA Monday opener has traditionally been a school holiday.
I’m not an old fart.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
From a guy that has hunted NY and PA for many decades, the change from a Sat opener to Saturday is a BIG deal. NY shifted to a Saturday opener several years ago. The impact was significant, and not positive. Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side. Historically, "the guys" would start showing up in camp on Friday. There was time to cook up a big perch fry, maybe have a couple extra drinks, and have time to recover stay up a late night, or two, playing cards, sight in your firearms, repair whatever need fixing, visit other camps, and generally catch up with old friend and relatives. Much of this disappeared with the Monday opener. Guys work thru Friday and show up late, a fast food dinner, and out hunting at zero dark thirty. It made a real change for the worse at my camp, as well as several others that I visit. Lastly, one of the states arguments was that the change would sell more licenses, attract more hunters. Just did not happen. The population of folks that prize the hunt, with the kill being secondary, continues to decline. The breed just gets grayer, and slowly disappears into the sunset. Pennsylvania's situation is doubly absurd, open on a Sat, but no hunting on Sunday???
This is spot on.
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
Yeah wouldn’t even consider what ejo has to say he from California and the people that haven’t grown up in it won’t understand and that is same with this new generation that are going to start hunting now because of Saturday opener
Commissioners have been appointed by a Governor and approved by the Senate for a very long time.
Up until a few years ago, they were eight year appointments. So commissioners tended to serve beyond the tenure of a Governor that had appointed them. Now, their terms are four years, with extensions based on approval of the Senate, IF the Governor puts them up for another term.
That is more political influence than we'd ever had and it was the direct result of malcontents whining to the legislature, demanding they take more control over deer management. So this is the primary cause of the phugged up mess we have now. We now have fewer hunters in the legislature, than at any time since I've been around. They don't know a damn thing about deer or wildlife management, but they do know what it takes to get re-elected: Grease the squeaky wheel that makes all the noise.
I know several of the deer biologists that work for the PGC. All but one of them hunts deer and always has. And every damn one of them spends more time afield, than most of our casual (two or three day) deer hunters do, many of whom think that makes them deer experts..
You do not know chit Gov. Tom Ridge changed from elected to appointed. And if you do not have your head up the azz of every single person working for the PGC no one does. The only way out of the mess is fire the whole lot of them and combine agencies, then put the positions up for vote without allowing the PFSC to block vote. Go back to HUNTINGPA and spew your nonsense
Why would being combined with the Fish Commission have any benefit to those who don’t fish. Other States do it that way isn’t a valid reason.
Combining the two would only lead to the next round of back biting about how the money was split.
Because almost 100% of all requests for a rate hike a.k.a. lisc. increase is for administrative fees such as meeting employee benefit package via their bargaining union and nothing for actual wildlife/fish programs. Shut them both down reorganize as one unit cutting 1/2 of those fees furthermore a renegotiated union contract that brings health insurance and retirement into today's norm vs. the Cadillac plans that have a choke hold on funds.
Odd that deer season opener is the time to catch up with friends, hang out etc. Seems friends could find time to do that, even if there were no deer season.
It’s no more odd than getting together with the same family and friends for Thanksgiving or Christmas or Independence Day or Festivus, or ... year in and year out.
Yes on the getting together, but if there was no Thanksgiving, Christmas or 4th of July, you're telling me you wouldn't travel to PA to visit family?
So you're saying, half the hunters should agree with you so you can maintain a social calendar? Again, I don't see how changing it changes a damned thing, but I'm not Yankee smart.
Not all that odd, when many of those friends we share deer seasons with each year live near your hunting camp, that's four or more hours from your home and you only see them a few times per year when you're there? If you've been hunting with them in the same places for decades, farmers and others that live near that camp have long ago become friends.
Because not everyone has the same hunting traditions, maybe it's too much to expect someone to figure out what is important to others, if it doesn't happen to fit their idea of how deer seasons are supposed to be enjoyed? Might be a regional thing, or differences from state to state. I wouldn't ridicule how others do things, not really sure why some feel compelled to do that to someone else?
So the answer is make to fight the Game Commission and 1/2 the hunters, so you can maintain a fixed social schedule.
So a Saturday opener means you'll never see them again? If so, who gives a fugg, the weren't that important to begin with.
You gals keep lobbying to have your dance card filled by the government. Hard to believe we've fallen so far that Yankees no depend on government to maintain their friendships.
And before the " do you begrudge the employees a decent wage" crowd starts chiming in no I do not was a union employee all my life BUT when the cash is tight I want the money to go to wildlife programs an to see the Good Old Boys club to live under the same medical insurance and 401s 98% of household in America do today. They still have 1970 benefit packages....WHY????????
Virginia was a Monday opener for many decades. Changed to a Saturday opener 10 year or so ago and no one batted an eye. It gets more people out for opening day if they cant get off on a weekday. Virginia now has Sunday hunting now private land and that has helped get more people out as well. Don't like the Saturday opener then just wait til Monday. We need to be able to get kids out in the field and recruit new hunters. Openers on a weekend and Sunday hunting are no brainers for getting additional people out.
Cash is tight because hunters think they should pay the same for a general hunting license as they did in 2000 or so and they complain to the legislature who authorizes license increases.
Odd that deer season opener is the time to catch up with friends, hang out etc. Seems friends could find time to do that, even if there were no deer season.
The way it sounds, nobody wants to be friends with PA deer hunters.
I've never set foot in Pennsylvania, let alone hunted it, so I may be missing something here but I simply fail to see the issue.
You all get an extra day of hunting. If you want to take off from town on Saturday, catch up with friends and such at camp on Sunday then hunt Monday morning, this change isn't preventing that. So you're not actually hunting on opening day, if this is how you want to plan your getaway. Is hunting opening morning without taking Friday off work that big of a deal?
I'd be popping a boner if I got an extra weekend day added to my rifle season. I don't give a damn about traditions or the Sunday fun day pre-hunt drunk fest though. I guess I am the odd man out.
Yeah wouldn’t even consider what ejo has to say he from California and the people that haven’t grown up in it won’t understand and that is same with this new generation that are going to start hunting now because of Saturday opener
Yeah wouldn’t even consider what ejo has to say he from California and the people that haven’t grown up in it won’t understand and that is same with this new generation that are going to start hunting now because of Saturday opener
Actually, I grew up working on my family’s dairy farm in NY State and now own my own farm there. It’s easy to dismiss differing opinions. However, I like hunting traditions as much as anyone but am not afraid of changes that allow more options for days afield.
Cash is tight because hunters think they should pay the same for a general hunting license as they did in 2000 or so and they complain to the legislature who authorizes license increases.
That is no different here. lol But they don't complain about BUYING water that comes out of a tap.
Cash is tight because hunters think they should pay the same for a general hunting license as they did in 2000 or so and they complain to the legislature who authorizes license increases.
They complain to the Legislature of the mis management of the deer herd, pheasants, and now turkeys while asking the Legislature to give a rate hike for employee retirement medical programs and not for game management. We Pa. sportsmen and women own the State Game Lands the PGC does not they manage it for us not them. Why reward them for poor management with a raise for their personal bennies?????
The PGC hasn't had a license increase in almost 20 years but the price of everything has gone up since then.They're mandated by the legislature and state contracts to to only have X-number of employees and they salaries,benefits and pensions that the state sets.Because of budget constraints,we have three food and cover employees who manage over 30k acres of state game lands in a 400 sq mile area.We have one WCO and no deputies patrolling the same district.I'm not sure what you mean by mismanagement but my 13 year old son has had a far better start with just about everything than I did as a 12 year old in 1980.This past year he killed a buck,several doe,Two big gobblers and around 30 pheasants all on Public and DMAP'd property open to the public.I never would have dreamed that was possible in 1980.People can continue to run to their legislators every time they don't get a deer but I'll continue to support the PGC and teach my son how to find game.
Doug's what makes you think only hunters whom did not kill a deer complain to their Legislator? I killed a buck every year since 1967 right here in Pa. an the last 40 straight were with a bow, I quit killing does with the exception of once in a while if my venison sausage is running low. I kill them on land I own and manage for wild game. Mine son has about a 20 year streak of bucks and does too. I got no problem with a rate hike provided the money is used for game management and not pension or medical benefits. I pay around $2000 each year to buy hunting tags in other states why would I mind $40 in Pa.?
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.One of the big reasons the PGC needs a license increase is to offset the rising costs of pension and medical.The state controls what the PGC has to dish out.The PGC has no control over it.When more money goes towards pensions and benefits,less will go towards game management.It's as simple as that.
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.
Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.One of the big reasons the PGC needs a license increase is to offset the rising costs of pension and medical.The state controls what the PGC has to dish out.The PGC has no control over it.When more money goes towards pensions and benefits,less will go towards game management.It's as simple as that.
You seem to pick and choose what you want to read! Did you miss the part where I said I manage my own property? I have 685 acres of my own which is part of a 7000 acre block of land that is private an all managed for wildlife. I usually do not bother with killing does myself as I let kids come do it with permission but no adults only kids an seniors whom are at least 72 yrs old or handicapped.
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.One of the big reasons the PGC needs a license increase is to offset the rising costs of pension and medical.The state controls what the PGC has to dish out.The PGC has no control over it.When more money goes towards pensions and benefits,less will go towards game management.It's as simple as that.
So by your logic when the pendulum swings more towards pension and medical hunters should just accept little game management by the people that have the sole responsibility to manage the game so they become stuffed suits in an empty office. Wake up!How can you possibly be happy with put and take pheasant hunting,now that the PGC themselves admit they failed at the costly pheasant programs of the last several years?
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.
Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.
Current population of Pa is around 12.3 Million. May not be all that easy for around 900,000 licensed hunters, who are so divided they can't even agree on the day Deer season opens to vote anyone out.
And, by the time you get them out, the damage they cause may have become irreparable.
Some always want radical change when things are not going how they want, when fixing what you have may be the best solution. Change for only the sake of change best be done with more than a little consideration of what it will bring.
Who here thinks the legislature would not love to have control over the 1million plus acres of Gamelands?How could they achieve it? Think timber and gas where the GC has mineral rights. Gas will be big money as soon as the infrastructure is complete. Making the GC go bankrupt by not having the funds to function, and saying it is necessary to take them over would most likely be the easiest.
Too late to vote anyone out when the titles have been transferred over to the State to do with as the politicians wish.
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.
Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.
Current population of Pa is around 12.3 Million. May not be all that easy for around 900,000 licensed hunters, who are so divided they can't even agree on the day Deer season opens to vote anyone out.
And, by the time you get them out, the damage they cause may have become irreparable.
Some always want radical change when things are not going how they want, when fixing what you have may be the best solution. Change for only the sake of change best be done with more than a little consideration of what it will bring.
Who here thinks the legislature would not love to have control over the 1million plus acres of Gamelands?How could they achieve it? Think timber and gas where the GC has mineral rights. Gas will be big money as soon as the infrastructure is complete. Making the GC go bankrupt by not having the funds to function, and saying it is necessary to take them over would most likely be the easiest.
Too late to vote anyone out when the titles have been transferred over to the State to do with as the politicians wish.
Same BS doom and gloom ..... yet every other state in the nation deals with their legislature. But we cant do it here? Pffft!!! Blow smoke up someone elses ass.
What's the reason for the push to keep the opener on a Monday?
Is the season planned to be opened two days earlier or five days later than in the past? Is the last day of the season to remain the same or is the season still going to be X days long?
I don't care what day they open it, but here is the cliff notes version.
The Monday opener after Thanksgiving is much the same as a traditional State holiday among many. Been that way for what seems like forever. Much the same as December 25th. December 25th may fall on any day of the week, but the 25th is the 25th and the Monday after Thanksgiving is "the" Monday, and that Monday is the Deer season opener. For those who don't want the change, the reason is tradition. Nothing more, nothing less. It is their tradition, and I suspect those following will come to think a Saturday opener is their tradition and will be resistant to change.
If we ever get to hunt on Sunday, watch what will happen. "Why can't Saturday be a traveling day and I won't have to take off work on Friday. Sunday should be the opener, it makes sense in that it is the first day of the week." Waaa, Waaa, Waaa, Waaa!!!!
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.
Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.
Current population of Pa is around 12.3 Million. May not be all that easy for around 900,000 licensed hunters, who are so divided they can't even agree on the day Deer season opens to vote anyone out.
And, by the time you get them out, the damage they cause may have become irreparable.
Some always want radical change when things are not going how they want, when fixing what you have may be the best solution. Change for only the sake of change best be done with more than a little consideration of what it will bring.
Who here thinks the legislature would not love to have control over the 1million plus acres of Gamelands?How could they achieve it? Think timber and gas where the GC has mineral rights. Gas will be big money as soon as the infrastructure is complete. Making the GC go bankrupt by not having the funds to function, and saying it is necessary to take them over would most likely be the easiest.
Too late to vote anyone out when the titles have been transferred over to the State to do with as the politicians wish.
Same BS doom and gloom ..... yet every other state in the nation deals with their legislature. But we cant do it here? Pffft!!! Blow smoke up someone elses ass.
And you think Pittsburgh and Philadelphia give a single hoot re you, the GC or your Deer hunting.You think they are not the power brokers of State politics? Your boner is so tight to bring down those who you think are the problem, it has pulled your eyelids shut so you can’t see anything else but what a complete revolution will satisfy.
You think our current Governor cares about your hunting? We have more than needed in the legislature that are anti 2nd. But you think your little personal power trip to destroy some good people in the GC is the path.
What was the total of your little money saving pic? (4.8 million)That amount doesn’t even buy gas to fuel all the GC equipment and insure it. Big deal. You should go back and be an accountant and save Pa hunting.
When they can not sell enough licence to fund the PGC then the Legislature will care. Just why do you think the PGC is so hell bent to attract new blood , I.e. hunters whom bought licences before but dropped out, not just youth? Because they see the gravy train slowing down and know they will be in bad shape if they must rely on the Legislature to take over funding. THINK DO NOT JUST DRINK THE KOOL-AID !!!!
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.
Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.
Current population of Pa is around 12.3 Million. May not be all that easy for around 900,000 licensed hunters, who are so divided they can't even agree on the day Deer season opens to vote anyone out.
And, by the time you get them out, the damage they cause may have become irreparable.
Some always want radical change when things are not going how they want, when fixing what you have may be the best solution. Change for only the sake of change best be done with more than a little consideration of what it will bring.
Who here thinks the legislature would not love to have control over the 1million plus acres of Gamelands?How could they achieve it? Think timber and gas where the GC has mineral rights. Gas will be big money as soon as the infrastructure is complete. Making the GC go bankrupt by not having the funds to function, and saying it is necessary to take them over would most likely be the easiest.
Too late to vote anyone out when the titles have been transferred over to the State to do with as the politicians wish.
Same BS doom and gloom ..... yet every other state in the nation deals with their legislature. But we cant do it here? Pffft!!! Blow smoke up someone elses ass.
And you think Pittsburgh and Philadelphia give a single hoot re you, the GC or your Deer hunting.You think they are not the power brokers of State politics? Your boner is so tight to bring down those who you think are the problem, it has pulled your eyelids shut so you can’t see anything else but what a complete revolution will satisfy.
You think our current Governor cares about your hunting? We have more than needed in the legislature that are anti 2nd. But you think your little personal power trip to destroy some good people in the GC is the path.
What was the total of your little money saving pic? (4.8 million)That amount doesn’t even buy gas to fuel all the GC equipment and insure it. Big deal. You should go back and be an accountant and save Pa hunting.
Get your head out of your ass. Philly? Pitt? Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Chicago, .........quit with the excuses.
I've never set foot in Pennsylvania, let alone hunted it, so I may be missing something here but I simply fail to see the issue.
You all get an extra day of hunting. If you want to take off from town on Saturday, catch up with friends and such at camp on Sunday then hunt Monday morning, this change isn't preventing that. So you're not actually hunting on opening day, if this is how you want to plan your getaway. Is hunting opening morning without taking Friday off work that big of a deal?
I'd be popping a boner if I got an extra weekend day added to my rifle season. I don't give a damn about traditions or the Sunday fun day pre-hunt drunk fest though. I guess I am the odd man out.
I failed to see it to at first. It’s the tradition part that’s got a bunch of folks upset. Add that to the fact that allegedly the majority of hunters want to KEEP IT LIKE IT IS makes it worse. It’s more than just the pragmatic side of it.
New blood is not coming in and the old blood isn't re-upping. So the GC should not be hell bent on attracting new or bringing others back in? Wonder what your response would be if they came out and said we don't care about how many licenses we sell.
So lets hear what it would take for the GC to make you two happy. Lets get specific on policy and programs that will make Pa a place that hunters will be attracted to. How will you do it better. And will the resident accountant comment on how they will be funded and how much can be saved by any of his cut back programs. Add up the plus and minus accounts and then tell us what they would do with the extra.
It's a shame to see so much discord on this issue. All I can say, is I'll enjoy an extra day of hunting. Missing the opener won't happen for me, regardless of the day it falls on. There will be time to visit with the neighbors. We always manage to find that time. As for what this will do to help with drawing in new hunters, and also for hunter retention, I guess that remains to be seen. I hope we get Sunday hunting eventually. Time to step up into the 21st century.
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.
Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.
What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.
If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.
I have compassion for folks on both sides of this issue. And it's easy to relate to both.
I also have compassion for the folks in wildlife conservation and management. Most get into that field due to passions for biology, ecosystems and the outdoors only to realize their real job is kowtowing to politics and social science. There is never unanimous joy in any of their decisions. It's a thankless job filled with public resentment and I believe I'd sooner visit the dentist than have to walk a day in their shoes.
If the general public had 100% say in all decisions, some would do a nice job in their own wildlife management but it'd likely be self-serving. The vast majority would drive that bus right off the phuggin' cliff.
From my readings on this forum and others concerning deer hunting in PA, there's already been an ongoing decline in "camps" and tradition because younger generations in the lineage simply don't have the interest. With the downward trend in license sales/hunters from coast-to-coast, it certainly seems like the perfect time to begin new traditions involving new/young hunters. It sure seems like a weekend opener would at least allow for current non-hunting youngsters Timmy and Sally to hunt on Saturday when mom would never think of letting them off of school. Timmy and Sally are the future of hunting folks - we've got to change with the times - nothing is forever.
From the outside looking in, it seems to me the decision offers a certain degree of flexibility for all but the diehard traditionalists. I have not read the legislation - does it preclude anyone of what they've done in the past? Continue to have the social event on the weekend, then begin hunting on Monday?
"If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz"
Yikes! Please don't include me in their insanity. How they conduct themselves here speaks volumes about their attitudes and what they bring to the table.
SKane: This decision to move the deer opener to Saturday, wasn't "legislation". It was a regulatory move by the Board of Commissioners. There is a difference in how such things come to pass here. The BOC can make regulations on issues under their control. They can set seasons/bag limits, permit fees and many other regulations.
Our very limited Sunday hunting is under the control of the Legislature, as are such things as the cost of the license itself, the cost of which has not gone up since 1999. Why? Because the disgruntled ankle biters continually complain to the politicians, with the same accusations you've seen posted here...
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
I have compassion for folks on both sides of this issue. And it's easy to relate to both.
I also have compassion for the folks in wildlife conservation and management. Most get into that field due to passions for biology, ecosystems and the outdoors only to realize their real job is kowtowing to politics and social science. There is never unanimous joy in any of their decisions. It's a thankless job filled with public resentment and I believe I'd sooner visit the dentist than have to walk a day in their shoes.
If the general public had 100% say in all decisions, some would do a nice job in their own wildlife management but it'd likely be self-serving. The vast majority would drive that bus right off the phuggin' cliff.
From my readings on this forum and others concerning deer hunting in PA, there's already been an ongoing decline in "camps" and tradition already because younger generations in the lineage simply don't have the interest. With the downward trend in license sales/hunters from coast-to-coast, it certainly seems like the perfect time to begin new traditions involving new/young hunters. It sure seems like a weekend opener would at least allow for current non-hunting youngsters Timmy and Sally to hunt on Saturday when mom would never think of letting them off of school. Timmy and Sally are the future of hunting folks - we've got to change with the times - nothing is forever.
From the outside looking in, it seems to me the decision offers a certain degree of flexibility for all but the diehard traditionalists. I have not read the legislation - does it preclude anyone of what they've done in the past? Continue to have the social event on the weekend, then begin hunting on Monday?
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.
Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.
What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.
If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.
Ill respond hopefully before the holiday is over. Snuck in quick on break(triple time $$$$$).
Scott, You over complicate the issue here in Pa. All the GC here has to do is have a Deer behind every bush and all the naysayers will be on here bragging about our great GC.
I find it odd that most of the younger bow hunting crowd are more than happy with how the GC does their job.
Have friends with good Hounds that absolutely pound Rabbits. Another acquaintance with a Squirrel Dog does the same.
Grouse hunters are not all that happy. However, none I know that want to destroy the GC.
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.
Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.
What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.
If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.
Ill respond hopefully before the holiday is over. Snuck in quick on break(triple time $$$$$).
Should be interesting.
Hammering the boss for triple time, while beetching about another’s pension and pay is enlightening.
Add me to the "Burn the vipers nest crowd". All too easy for someone from out of Pa. to comment whom is not affected by the opener switch, yet when I comment about the cost of non resident tags in western states they reply "stay home we do not need nor want you just keep paying $850 for a deer tag while I pay $12". My big issue and one not many outsidrs are aware of is the suggestion for date switch (support by his going public with his comments) came from a sole Comissioner supported by his buddies on the Board for political reason, to allow his own college age children and his brother's college age kids to be able to hunt deer on the Saturday post Thanksgiving...pretty self serving I would say! Then when a poll by the PGC themselves of hunters DID NOT SUPPORT the switch took ANOTHER POLL with even a larger amount NOT SUPPORTING a date switch the BOC made the switch anyway. Said Comisssioners exerted enough pressure on 4 other members of the BOC to get his way....THAT IS PLAIN BULL SCHIT!! and the embedded members of this board with vested interests for a switch are doing their best to sell their viewpoint to anyone whom will listen. They have the ear of the naive and the greedy who see another Saturday to hunt while not being sage enough to realize what has happen with the politics. The poster (s) whom suggest disbanding the PGC and the PFBC and reforming as one unit have it correct. To those nay sayers I ask just why do you think most every other state has just one agency with elected members vs. political appointees.
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.
Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.
What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.
If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.
Ill respond hopefully before the holiday is over. Snuck in quick on break(triple time $$$$$).
Should be interesting.
He solved the monumental conundrum on how to pick up his venison from the butcher this past year, unraveling this whole thing should be a walk in the park; beer in one hand, cigarette in the other – "whatever's best for me while I'm still upright" is what I'm banking on.
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.One of the big reasons the PGC needs a license increase is to offset the rising costs of pension and medical.The state controls what the PGC has to dish out.The PGC has no control over it.When more money goes towards pensions and benefits,less will go towards game management.It's as simple as that.
So by your logic when the pendulum swings more towards pension and medical hunters should just accept little game management by the people that have the sole responsibility to manage the game so they become stuffed suits in an empty office. Wake up!How can you possibly be happy with put and take pheasant hunting,now that the PGC themselves admit they failed at the costly pheasant programs of the last several years?
I don't know you or anything about you,the way you hunt or how you manage your property.I don't remember you saying that you cry to your legislator and I don't recall you saying that you did.The bottom line is,many people do and the legislators are completely clueless to game management.It is is as simple as when more money has to go to administrative costs,then less goes to game management.Since the PGC has no control over pensions,they need a fee increase to better manage the wildlife.It really isn't rocket science.
He didn’t get run out, he quit. Major difference and now their is one less.
Are you quite sure of that? To me it smells like a big bucket of rotting political fish.
The vote was 5 for and 3 against. Have the other two dissenting voters been forced out. As of now he quit.
Second issue:
Also would be interesting to know the particular college Thanksgiving vacation schedule. May be valid depending on when Thanksgiving vacation ended and they had to start back.
(Had to edit upon giving additional consideration.)
From a guy that has hunted NY and PA for many decades, the change from a Sat opener to Saturday is a BIG deal. NY shifted to a Saturday opener several years ago. The impact was significant, and not positive. Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side. Historically, "the guys" would start showing up in camp on Friday. There was time to cook up a big perch fry, maybe have a couple extra drinks, and have time to recover stay up a late night, or two, playing cards, sight in your firearms, repair whatever need fixing, visit other camps, and generally catch up with old friend and relatives. Much of this disappeared with the Monday opener. Guys work thru Friday and show up late, a fast food dinner, and out hunting at zero dark thirty. It made a real change for the worse at my camp, as well as several others that I visit. Lastly, one of the states arguments was that the change would sell more licenses, attract more hunters. Just did not happen. The population of folks that prize the hunt, with the kill being secondary, continues to decline. The breed just gets grayer, and slowly disappears into the sunset. Pennsylvania's situation is doubly absurd, open on a Sat, but no hunting on Sunday???
You made every point, almost word for word, that I made in a previous thread, except you didn't mention the economic impact on the local communities. And I failed to mention that now Pa hunters can either waste a Sunday in between hunting, or commute home and then get to make the trip again.
Disregarding public opinion polls, commissioners resigning, rumors that the change was ramrodded through so another commissioner's college student son wouldn't have to miss classes...it smells like typical politics in America these days.
It was an abject failure in NY. Good luck Pa.
My heart's in the mountains, my heart is not here. My heart's in the mountains, chasing the deer.
He didn’t get run out, he quit. Major difference and now their is one less.
Are you quite sure of that? To me it smells like a big bucket of rotting political fish.
The vote was 5 for and 3 against. Have the other two dissenting voters been forced out. As of now he quit.
Second issue:
Also would be interesting to know the particular college Thanksgiving vacation schedule. May be valid depending on when Thanksgiving vacation ended and they had to start ba
(Had to edit upon giving additional consideration.)
It's politics, after all. You never know what's going on for certain behind the scenes. Maybe the other two tucked in their balls and fell in line. Who knows.
Last edited by eaglemountainman; 04/19/19.
My heart's in the mountains, my heart is not here. My heart's in the mountains, chasing the deer.
He solved the monumental conundrum on how to pick up his venison from the butcher this past year, unraveling this whole thing should be a walk in the park; beer in one hand, cigarette in the other – "whatever's best for me while I'm still upright" is what I'm banking on.
😀
I forgot about that epic display of organizational aptitude.
I'm still against the Saturday opening, but I won't bitch and complain about it. I'll grab my rifle and stand Saturday morning, hike up a tree and enjoy being out there. But, I'm sure the majority of you guys would agree they did this a little backwards without allowing Sunday hunting first. If they are saying the Saturday opener would get more people (kids) in the woods, why wouldn't hunting on Sundays do the same? The whole "bird watching, hikers, blah blah" need Sundays is BS. They aren't buying the licenses to help fund the PA Game lands like us hunters do. BUT, I will give kudos to PA for not having in increase in in license fees for over 20 years. I'm sure we can all agree that's actually an accomplishment.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery - Thomas Jefferson
He didn’t get run out, he quit. Major difference and now their is one less.
Are you quite sure of that? To me it smells like a big bucket of rotting political fish.
The vote was 5 for and 3 against. Have the other two dissenting voters been forced out? As of now he quit.
Second issue:
Also would be interesting to know the particular college Thanksgiving vacation schedule. May be valid depending on when Thanksgiving vacation ended and they had to start back.
Edit: To Blackheart, sorry I don't conform to your inane generalization, but I don't happen to be one of your city f^cks
(Had to edit upon giving additional consideration.)
It's politics, after all. You never know what's going on for certain behind the scenes. Maybe the other two tucked in their balls and fell in line. Who knows.
...... BUT, I will give kudos to PA for not having in increase in in license fees for over 20 years. I'm sure we can all agree that's actually an accomplishment.
While I agree with your comment there relly is no accomplishment to it, they just cut programs and closed farms. The bird watchers,hikers, etc that "need a day too" is a BS statement by them and the PGC. Who own the State Gamelands? Who bought them? Let them sniff dandelions all they want on State Forests and private property 7 days a week. Just look at their uproar because the PGC closed the hiking trail to Glenenoka Falls (sp) somehow they forget it is GAMELANDS under control of state hunters, supported with funds from hunters what right do they have to ask for the trail to be left open with no vested interest? Kinda like me telling you what church to attend.
...... BUT, I will give kudos to PA for not having in increase in in license fees for over 20 years. I'm sure we can all agree that's actually an accomplishment.
While I agree with your comment there relly is no accomplishment to it, they just cut programs and closed farms. The bird watchers,hikers, etc that "need a day too" is a BS statement by them and the PGC. Who own the State Gamelands? Who bought them? Let them sniff dandelions all they want on State Forests and private property 7 days a week. Just look at their uproar because the PGC closed the hiking trail to Glenenoka Falls (sp) somehow they forget it is GAMELANDS under control of state hunters, supported with funds from hunters what right do they have to ask for the trail to be left open with no vested interest? Kinda like me telling you what church to attend.
Me, being a nonres of PA, I'll admit I'm quite ignorant to what was cut in order to keep the price of licenses the same. I'm sure you will get a spectrum of answers if you ask if there should have been a raise in prices to keep these programs or be in the scenario we are currently in with these cut programs and farms.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery - Thomas Jefferson
Overall I'm quite happy with the PGC as an agency. I think they've done a great job for the most part. The difficult part is that in PA every single deer hunter believes they are a wildlife biologist and you can't tell them anything. Me? I'm just delighted to have an extra Saturday tacked on to Rifle season.
Overall I'm quite happy with the PGC as an agency. I think they've done a great job for the most part. The difficult part is that in PA every single deer hunter believes they are a wildlife biologist and you can't tell them anything. Me? I'm just delighted to have an extra Saturday tacked on to Rifle season.
Happy to put more stress on an alreaded depleted herd. Sounds pretty self serving and narrow minded to me...but we live in a me first era next you may want a participation trophy for just being out there in the field.
Happy to put more stress on an alreaded depleted herd. Sounds pretty self serving and narrow minded to me...but we live in a me first era next you may want a participation trophy for just being out there in the field.
If I was faced with having to hunt a depleted herd, I'd simply move to where the deer are. There are plenty of deer in PA. Think I saw 23 on just the last day of Rifle season.
know what Brainstorm meant. The entire ANF, NC part of the state parts of the NE are as well. Too many doe tags for too long too many greedy slobs bragging about how they and their kids kill a couple does a piece every year and then feed the meat to the dogs or just chuck it. Last year my son killed a doe and a couple local kids killed one each on my land, but I manage my properties well.
know what Brainstorm meant. The entire ANF, NC part of the state parts of the NE are as well. Too many doe tags for too long too many greedy slobs bragging about how they and their kids kill a couple does a piece every year and then feed the meat to the dogs or just chuck it. Last year my son killed a doe and a couple local kids killed one each on my land, but I manage my properties well.
You got all that from this...
Originally Posted by Barnstorm
So... were is the depleted herd; and why is it depleatred?
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
know what Brainstorm meant. The entire ANF, NC part of the state parts of the NE are as well. Too many doe tags for too long too many greedy slobs bragging about how they and their kids kill a couple does a piece every year and then feed the meat to the dogs or just chuck it. Last year my son killed a doe and a couple local kids killed one each on my land, but I manage my properties well.
Hardly anyone hunts the northcentral after the first day of Rifle now until the first Saturday. Then it's a ghost town again for the second week. If conditions were favorable the deer herd would be booming in the big woods. If the deer aren't there it's because the habitat isn't there.
know what Brainstorm meant. The entire ANF, NC part of the state parts of the NE are as well. Too many doe tags for too long too many greedy slobs bragging about how they and their kids kill a couple does a piece every year and then feed the meat to the dogs or just chuck it. Last year my son killed a doe and a couple local kids killed one each on my land, but I manage my properties well.
Hardly anyone hunts the northcentral after the first day of Rifle now until the first Saturday. Then it's a ghost town again for the second week. If conditions were favorable the deer herd would be booming in the big woods. If the deer aren't there it's because the habitat isn't there.
Moose you are showing your ignorance of the north central part of the state, I.e. potter, Tioga, McKean counties for certain are being timbered at full rate for the last several years creating ideal habitat. It is the numerous anterless tags that have the herd suppressed and the greed of the hunters themselves that are just as happy to kill the first deer they see in the combination season...see brown BANG!
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
Give it up already, your arguments make no sense.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
Give it up already, your arguments make no sense.
Why butt hurt? Why are people not hunting because of low numbers? Don't they still have the social side. I'm guessing they actually want LOTS of deer and the social side is secondary.
The only thing that makes no sense is PA's hunting, what a cluster fu*ck.
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
Give it up already, your arguments make no sense.
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by Hectortwsp
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
Those guys can sit home in their dens with their buddies watching football and see as many deer now.
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
Give it up already, your arguments make no sense.
Why butt hurt? Why are people not hunting because of low numbers? Don't they still have the social side. I'm guessing they actually want LOTS of deer and the social side is secondary.
The only thing that makes no sense is PA's hunting, what a cluster fu*ck.
You have that correct a real cluster f'k brought about by the peopl;e we hire to manage the game animals hence shut them down and reform, that is the only way out of it.
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
I was born and raised in Sullivan county near Shunk the issue there is not timbeing on private land but getting the State Forest to cut some trees creating habitat. While the PGC sold way too many doe tags for way to long in the area the habitat coupled with that heeds recruitment rates. My hometown area is depressed camps closed up or used for summer trips now all for lack of deer numbers. Drive up Rt 87 around Hillsgrove look at the closed or run and down seedy stores, motels,etc. was not like that when deer numbers were good. My kin still owns farms in the area few have any crops or livestock no reason to grow crops that deer and turkey fed on...hell they come to my place to hunt now!
See, I keep reading about so many empty camps because of low deer numbers, but that just doesn't seem to jive with all those that still want the Monday opener.
Many have agreed that "Deer season has never been simply about hunting, there has always been a huge social side."
So regardless of low numbers of deer, you can still have the HUGE social side, and also do some hunting.
You have that correct a real cluster f'k brought about by the peopl;e we hire to manage the game animals hence shut them down and reform, that is the only way out of it.
Another bring them down, without any ideas on how to correct the preceived problems.
What would you have the new crew do different. Shut Deer season down a few years so the herd can build up? Eliminate Doe tags? How about the decline in Ruffed Grouse numbers? What would be your suggestions to the new directors and what experience do you have so they may think you know what you are talking about? After all you want them to represent you. What experience do you bring to the table so your suggestions also represent me.
You can stand outside and almost listen to our Ash tree population crash to the ground from the ash borer that is killing them. They are a valuable part of the GC wooded GLs with regards wildlife habitat. Any suggestions to your new crew to possibly save them from completely dying out in the Pa forests. If they do die out, what will be the effect on various species of wildlife. Surely you have at least a few answers....Don't you????
You have that correct a real cluster f'k brought about by the peopl;e we hire to manage the game animals hence shut them down and reform, that is the only way out of it.
Another bring them down, without any ideas on how to correct the preceived problems.
What would you have the new crew do different. Shut Deer season down a few years so the herd can build up? Eliminate Doe tags? How about the decline in Ruffed Grouse numbers? What would be your suggestions to the new directors and what experience do you have so they may think you know what you are talking about? After all you want them to represent you. What experience do you bring to the table so your suggestions also represent me.
Grouse numbers are plummeting all over the NorthEast. Don't know as there's anything the GC or anybody else can do about it. Last article I read about it, NYDEC thinks it's west nile virus that's killing them off.
You have that correct a real cluster f'k brought about by the peopl;e we hire to manage the game animals hence shut them down and reform, that is the only way out of it.
Another bring them down, without any ideas on how to correct the preceived problems.
What would you have the new crew do different. Shut Deer season down a few years so the herd can build up? Eliminate Doe tags? How about the decline in Ruffed Grouse numbers? What would be your suggestions to the new directors and what experience do you have so they may think you know what you are talking about? After all you want them to represent you. What experience do you bring to the table so your suggestions also represent me.
Grouse numbers are plummeting all over the NorthEast. Don't know as there's anything the GC or anybody else can do about it. Last article I read about it, NYDEC thinks it's west nile virus that's killing them off.
West Nile is the current reason for blame. The GC here injected Grouse eggs with West Nile and guess what? The chicks had west nile. Well, you inject embryos with an infection and one shouldn't be all that surprised the offspring pops out infected. We have the habitat, but the Grouse are sliding. Our GC doesn't currently know why, but perhaps when they are all fired and out the new crew will.
Deer is the problem most here in Pa. have. Yet I have friends who somehow manage to kill a Buck almost every year. It is rare when they don't. They do it on public and private land. Some with a bow, and some with a rifle and I suspect they will do the same if the season starts on Saturday. Somehow they even manage to get one in the middle of the week, regardless of what day the season would open. Something is going on and it isn't fair that others can't do the same. Therefore it is imperative the GC needs a house cleaning.
They can watch birds and hug trees the other 51 Sundays. Those hunters are asking for one Sunday a year and that doesn't seem like too much to ask For what they contribute.
Before I sign on with the revolution, I need some questions answered.
Who gets to pick the people on the new Commission? Will they be fresh out of school or will we raid another agency? Will we get to vote on who fills various positions? Seems as if some think a vote is the fair way. I'm really getting to like Squirrel hunting. Will there be a Squirrel person? Eagles and Hawks? The Legislature thru them under the umbrella of the GC, which seem counterproductive to us hunters. Will the new crew tell the Legislature they can take over the Eagle and Hawks, in that they have a hard enough time with Grouse and Pheasants right now? Do you advocate more or less Game Wardens? Increased penalties for Game Law violations? Should those who are using our GL for bird-watching and not hunting, be required to wear orange during hunting season? Will the GW's enforce it if the catch them not complying.
Re choosing the new Commissioners and biologists: Will PaHick and his gang be on the selection committee? Seems as if they are so intent on change they should have a voice. Will other, as of now, non-committed hunters and those who don't have the time, have a voice of who is on the selection committee. Will we get to vote for who makes up the selection committee? Do you recommend equal representation of gender on the committee? Women in the shooting sports is now one of our largest growing population segments. Race? You know there are others out there other than white males that hunt.
They can watch birds and hug trees the other 51 Sundays. Those hunters are asking for one Sunday a year and that doesn't seem like too much to ask For what they contribute.
What? No one wants "one Sunday". Everyone who wants Sunday hunting wants all Sundays.
These threads remind me of some WGFD and MFWP meetings that I have been to.
Some hunters insist that if only more predator control happened, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that if only the game commission use a lifetime of outdoor knowledge instead of university "knowledge", mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that if only a 3 point minimum rule be implemented, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that they simply want to hunt and shoot the first buck they see, even if it is a 2X2. They don't care about trophies. Others insist that if a only unit be made into a draw for non residents, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that if only does were protected, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that if only more roads were closed to UTVs, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that more roads be opened up so that they can ride their UTVs around the mountains more. Luckily, not a one has bitched about lost traditions, that I have heard at least.
I just sit back and listen, happily thinking about the dozens of mule deer bucks I see each season, and the 4x4 bucks I end up taking each season, despite changes in season dates and regs. I am happy knowing that hunters in general know what is best for herds, and for the future of hunting in general.
Funny that hunters rarely want to discuss drought and the effect on fawn birthrate and recruitment. Easier to blame a person.
Originally Posted by T_Inman
These threads remind me of some WGFD and MFWP meetings that I have been to.
Some hunters insist that if only more predator control happened, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that if only the game commission use a lifetime of outdoor knowledge instead of university "knowledge", mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that if only a 3 point minimum rule be implemented, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that they simply want to hunt and shoot the first buck they see, even if it is a 2X2. They don't care about trophies. Others insist that if a only unit be made into a draw for non residents, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. [b]Others insist that if only does were protected, mule deer wouldn't have their current population probl[/b]em. Others insist that if only more roads were closed to UTVs, mule deer wouldn't have their current population problem. Others insist that more roads be opened up so that they can ride their UTVs around the mountains more. Luckily, not a one has bitched about lost traditions, that I have heard at least.
I just sit back and listen, happily thinking about the dozens of mule deer bucks I see each season, and the 4x4 bucks I end up taking each season, despite changes in season dates and regs. I am happy knowing that hunters in general know what is best for herds, and for the future of hunting in general.
Mule deer numbers are down most everywhere from historic highs no doubt, but from historical averages, I am not so sure. Back in the day, bighorns were more numerous than deer, according to some indian and mountain man accounts I have read. Who knows???
Loss of habitat (especially winter habitat) is another big one that hunters talk about, but other hunters insist the amount of farms and crops are the only reason deer survive winter. Then you have those that only care about deer and to hell with elk or antelope and the hunters that like to chase them-as it's all about the deer.
The world keeps turning, and hunters who put their time in keep killing deer...
...... BUT, I will give kudos to PA for not having in increase in in license fees for over 20 years. I'm sure we can all agree that's actually an accomplishment.
While I agree with your comment there relly is no accomplishment to it, they just cut programs and closed farms. The bird watchers,hikers, etc that "need a day too" is a BS statement by them and the PGC. Who own the State Gamelands? Who bought them? Let them sniff dandelions all they want on State Forests and private property 7 days a week. Just look at their uproar because the PGC closed the hiking trail to Glenenoka Falls (sp) somehow they forget it is GAMELANDS under control of state hunters, supported with funds from hunters what right do they have to ask for the trail to be left open with no vested interest? Kinda like me telling you what church to attend.
The PGC is on board with sunday hunting.They don't oppose it.
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