Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Size of Elk?

Can anyone tell me what is the average distance from an elks backbone to it's brisket. I got the new Boone and Crockett reticle Leupold and it tells you how to range a whitetail. I'm not substituting this for a rangefinder, I'm just curious so if something goes wrong with the rangefinder, I have some idea how to figure out the distance. Thanks!!

Approximately 24"

You talking a mature bull and or are you wondering about a juvi?

Mark D

Just measured a mature mount and it was 28"

Oops I was asking the other fella sorry.

24" sounds a bit weak, I would have to get home to look at my book and see what they've measure to be sure.

But off of memory I would say a juvi could be in the mid to upper 20's (25-30) and I would say that a mature bull would be in the 34" range.

But I sure don't trust my memory anymore...grins

Mark D

Just got on the ladder and measured better,your correct Mark measures 32". It's nice 5x5 but not a monster

Thanks. For ranging a deer with the b&c reticle it says the back to brisket for a whitetail is 16". If you adjust the power on the scope so that the center of the reticle hits the back and the top of the lower picket hits the brisket, then whatever the yardage is on the scope is the approximate range to the target. So I'm figuring with 32"(ballpark) for a mature elk, that would have me fitting back to brisket between the upper and lower pickets on the reticle. Like I said before, I'm taking a rangefinder with me but I want a backup plan just in case.

OK - I'm sticking my neck way out here, as I know next to nothing about elk - but I do know a bit about moose- particularly the largest Yukon-Alaska variety, which I hunt here on the Kenai, and have killed a couple dozen , though the largest of the large inhabit the Interior, by general consensus.

I'm in doubt of that 34" measurement for an average elk bull, as the average (4 or 5 year old) moose bull only goes 30 to 32 inches back to brisket. I'm using the back-line, not the top of the hump. And skin to skin - not any hanging hair. A big bull moose 7 to 10 or 12 years old might go 36 inches or a bit more. A yearling goes about 22 to 24, usually. These are my own field measurements, not mount measurements. I find it curious that an 800 lb animal will have the same chest measurements of a 1200 lb animal. Frankly, I think someone's stretching things somewhere, but ICBW, and/or my measurements skewed somehow. Death flattening?

What parameters are you guys using? back-line or top of hump? Was this 34" a really big bull elk?

Why is this measurement important to you? I just researched my moose book, and can't find any reference as yet to biologists using this measurement for any reason. They use chest girth, and length of animal to get a rough estimate of the moose's size sometimes. Mere top to bottom doesn't tell them anything, apparently.

Now, I used to use (before LRF) this measurement as a rough range-finding factor myself, using 30" and my duplex cross-hairs to get a fair idea of distance to target. Still do sometimes in the alpine country on sheep or caribou if I don't have the LRF with me. Before each moose season, I'd set up a 30" target and look at it at 100 yard increments through the scope to refresh my memory. It wasn't all that accurate, but better than nothing. Used in conjunction with the Mark 1 eyeball, it gave me two estimations. But a LRF, which I now have, beats either or both all hollow.

Of course, out to 300 yards or so, it just doesn't matter. I've never shot a moose over 160 yards, and only 3 over 100, but it's best to be prepared if needed.

las: Don't know about others but I picked up the number from Bob Hagel years ago,accepted it as gospel and never challenged it through a decade of lots of elk hunting,but it sure coulda been wrong!I did use the duplex trick (pre-LRS days)to kill a couple big bulls at about 450 yards,based on the 32" deal.I heard that 18" is for a big mule deer but IME I've shot several that easily exceeded 20". I dunno!

At the risk of pulling an Eremicus , Mule Deer had a write-up on this in the No. 4 Nosler manual. Here's what he put forth for males of different species:

• Pronghorn 15" +/- 1"
• Deer (WT & MD) 18" +/- 1"
• Mature bull elk 32"-35"
• Caribou 22" +/- 1"
• Sheep 18" +/- 1"

ETA- to clarify, those are chest dimensions, and not to be confused with anything else!

If you can get a good lock at the head, from center of ear hole to tip on nose is 18". My shepard scope has 18" circles and I heard this so I've been measureing from ear to nose on the elk we've gotten. Its within 2" spike to big 6pt. at least on the elk out here on the coast.

Jamie

Now you've piqued my interest- It's been 5 or 6 years since I made these measurements, and my memory may be slipping. I'll have to take some more measurements now , and write them down this time n my notebook - I'll also contact a couple biologists I know to see if they know- (2 aren't home, a third had no idea, just before I wrote this).

Thank God for LRF - I use a 400, cuz I don't really want to shoot past that anyway, and it's what I could afford. Mostly I range objects and landmarks beforehand from stand sites and on pre-established positions waiting for caribou, or on frequently hunted areas. I've had the LRF for two years, and have yet to range an animal I've shot. While this may not work all that well for "free range" critters, for stand hunted critters and familiar areas it will - I have, in my moose hunting areas, ranged by LRF or pacing, various distances across meadows, lakes, alpine, and the like, printed up teeny tags, and put them on my map (1K per inch, approximately, for my moose maps- I blow standard topos up on the color printer at Mailbox outlet), laminated under plastic. (Note: for pacing distances across lakes, it's much easier when the water is stiff! ) I have yet to shoot anything using this info, but......

This body-part-index measurement business is interesting, both for ranging and sizing. We have a form of slot limit on moose in my hunting area. Rule is legal bulls have to have a spike or fork on at least one side, OR, are 50" or larger in spread (hard to get a tape on those suckers!), OR have at least 3 brow tines on at least one side (safest proposition, in a hurry - but not all that safe! But I've shot a number of legal 3-brow, mid-40 inch bulls. Meat in the freezer!).

From past measurements of several years ago (I went dry for 3 years ), I know an adult bull moose has an ear 11 inches long, hide to tip. Factoring in the distance between the ear bases, I determined that if the ear is horizontal, and there is an additional ear length (be honest!) of antler beyond the ear tip (make sure the antlers are symmetrical, more or less!), then he should go 52". That gives a ooopsi margin of 2 inches. Don't cheat on it.

Last fall I walked around a bush, the bull at 70 yards (30 feet in front of my tree stand I'd left a half hour earlier)) raised his head to look at me as I whipped the rifle up (no time for binocs), he flopped an ear out sideways, looked like a full ear length of antler beyond, both sides about the same, checked for brow tines - looked like 3 on his left, no time to check the right as he turned to run - and I busted him.

Elapsed time about 6 seconds. He lied about the brow-tines - he had a double set of palm and brow tines on each side, one growing out the top of the palm, the other out of the bottom. Now, he did have 3 brow tines over there- but they were on different planes - and the technical description does not allow for that. (I would have had a good argument in court, tho!) I had not noted the unusual antler configuration- only the total width. Spread was 52 and 1/8, so brow tines were mute, and width was what I was shooting him on anyway. The brow tines were just a double-legal check- erroneous in this case due to non-typical configuration and viewing angle.

I love it when a plan comes together!

Here is a link, don't know how credible it is especially after looking at the gopher measurement, har har.

No link here....

here it is
http://www.abousainc.com/ATsystem.htm

I always measure chests from hair to hair, because that is what we use in the field to estimate range.

Have measured a bunch of elk, both freshly dead and on the wall, over the years--and eventually found it was a mistake to measure mounts. Taxidermists often stretch the hide to cover a larger form. That was where I got the 35-inch measurement.

It takes a really big bull to measure 30-32 inches, and that would be when he is fat, early in the fall. Have measured mature but not huge 6x6 bulls that went 26-28. Mature cows and raghorns usually go around 23-34". Spikes grow rapidly across the fall, so can start not much bigger than a mule deer, but end up in November around 20", maybe a little more.

It takes a HUGE animal to measure more than 36" top to bottom. I have taken a few that measured right around 36--a good-sized Alaskan moose and Namibian eland, an old Cape buffalo, a 3-year old bull bison. Big bull bison get larger, and eland and Alaskan moose might as well, but outside of a game farm I doubt there are many 36-inch elk.

JB

Thanks for the revised measurements.

There are considerable variations in elk size just like there are in humans. We can say the average male is 5'11" or whatever the Nat average is, but there are a lot of us smurfs, and quite a few 6'6"++ guys on the other spectrum.

My buddy killed a big bodied bull in AZ one year that they were able to get a jeep to. They brought it out whole. A biologist had set up in Alpine and asked to weigh and measure it. It weighed something over 900# field dressed- this my friends is a HUGE bodied elk. The others checked that same time were in the 500-600# range.

An outfitter buddy of mine, who has killed a lot of elk, says that the Roosevelts he kills every year in CA are fully 25% bigger than ANY rocky mountain elk he has ever seen. I know this doesn't help on body size measurements but it may help explain why the disparity in size.

I have seen one elk that I thought could make the 1000#.

In the late 60's, a bull was killed near Lake City in Colorado, had suffered some "accident" that made him into a "steer". The field dressed carcass was brought to Gunnison. His estimated live weight was ~1200#.

In the harsh winter of 1983-84, CDOW had a statewide emergency feeding program. We were on the outskirts of Gunnison late one winter afternoon watching the feeding by helecopters. A HUGE bull came down with several other bulls. His B&C score was over 400. A lot of people saw him during the latter stages of the feeding program. When he pulled up side by side with a spike, his body was easily 2 feet longer than the spike. He was pushing a 1000#. Geez was he big.

Roosevelts tend to run about 10% greater weight. But so much depends on age--and habitat. Personally, here in Colorado, I think the elk have gotten smaller. If that is true, I speculate it is because of elk densities in Colorado.

Beginning in the 1960's Roosevelts were transplanted to a couple islands off the Alaskan coast. These islands had not been grazed since the last "mini" mammoths had died off on the islands about 7000 years before. So, for a while, there was this "super forage" for the elk. The first few generations of elk grew super huge. Out of curiousity, Alsaka killed three bulls. All three were well over 1000#, and if I remember correctly, one bull was almost 1400#. After a while though, the forage was reduced to a more "normal" level, and the elk weights declined to about the same size as the mainland Roosevelts in Pacific Northwest where the original transplants came from.

So much depends on weather and habitat.

Casey

IIRCC, that "new range" business produced a caribou in excess of 700 lbs field dressed out on Adak Island, a few years after they were introduced.

On the other side, I talked to a fellow a few years ago that took what he thought was going to be an exceptionally nice ram out of the Tok Management Area up in central Alaska. On walk-up, it turned out to be a dwarf with about a 32 inch head. Looked big thru the optics, tho. Ooops! It was more than full curl, and legal, but the check station guys made them lay out every piece of meat to be sure they had it all, there was so little of it.

As far as cow size goes, my moose book claims that on really good forage, yearlings will sometimes be bred, but this stunts their final adult size. Normaly, they will breed for the first time as 27 month old animals. Presumably very poor forage may do the same, although cows may not breed until they are 3 in that case.

I did notice that the cow elk I shot in Colorado last fall was not as big as those mounted in bass Pro, even though my partner/guide claimed mine was "really big". There could be several explanations for these disparities.

Looks like using "average" size for range determination can be a bit chancy- but then we all probably knew that anyway. But if it's all you have......

Never did get back to the biologists for input on "average" moose depths- but eventually I will.