Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles New versus old .35 Whelen loads

I have a couple of .35 Whelens that I absolutely "dote on" (MK X and 7600). I reread all the "posts" related to loading the Whelen of loading with RL15, plus many other powders. Like many of my "fellow loaders" I have been perplexed at Alliant's fairly recent "downloading" of the cartridge with RL15 powder and have read all the various explanations to include the switch from "CUP" to "PSI", custom chambers, powder "lots", etc. The Whelen cartridge was first "tagged" as being certified for loads to 52,000CUP, or about 62,000PS, although (supposedly) there is no "linear formula" for computation. The pressure given by alliant lists the Whelen in PSI, while showing the pressure below the max CUP pressure normally given prior to the "Pezio" pressure tests. When Alliant has been asked about the discrepancy of listing a "previous" 250gr load at 59.5 grain of RL15 and now listing the max for the same bullet at 54.0gr they do not seem to know how they arrived at this decision! (At least, I have never read or heard of their official reason for this 10% reduction.) I have been reloading the Whelen for a couple of decades now; and when I first started reloading it, I used some of the data provided by Finn Aagaard. I have several bottles of RL15 and I regularly load 57.5gr of the "stuff" behind at least 3 different brands of 250gr bullets. I have even loaded up to the 59.5gr limit (mine, at present), but most are more accurate with 1 or 2 less grains of powder (pretty typical). I have yet to have any of the "typical" pressure signs, even when using "Lake City" 30/06 brass, which BTW does not have a 30/06 "head stamp".
My theory is: I believe the switch to PSI versus CUP caught Alliant "flat footed". They equated PSI to be much the same as CUP and listed even lower pressure because of the "likelihood" of overloading a "former Wildcat" too high during the transition. I can't prove this, but other sources seem to follow the manufactures (Alliant's) lead, while most Whelen "users" tend to use the old data with complete satisfaction, including this one. I think that if Alliant went back and boosted their pressure levels back up to 62,000PSI they would then up their chronograph velocities back up to the 2450 to 2500+fps range. To have a smaller case like the .358Win "outrun" your favorite 30/06 based cartridge is an "embarrassment"! I just don't think the Whelen was treated fairly! my .02

Just my not very humble opinion but I think Remington screwed the pooch again when it came to the .35 Whelen. Case in point, when Big R brought out the .280 Rem. they set it up for their pump and autoloader with a slightly (?) reduce load. They did the same thing with the .35 Whelen. Again, in my not very humble opinion they used the 1 in 16" twist when it was/is considered that the 1 in12" twist is the proper rate for the cartridge. There is also the fact that there are a lot of old 1903 Springfields that were converted to .35 Whelen along with some 1895 Winchesters. I know for sure of at least one that I considered buying so I know they exist. Some of those Springfields may have been of the low numbered variety. This leads me to believe that maybe Alliant is just practicing some serious CYA. I have three rifles chambered to the .35 Whelen. Shooting the 250 gr. Hornady spire point and round nose along with the Speer Hot Core using Re15 I never could reach that 59.5 load in two of the rifles and the third was giving slight stiffness when opening the bolt. The Ruger M77 balked at 58.0 gr. and the Remington M700 Classic at 57.5. This was with any of the mentioned bullets. My favorite load is 60.4 gr. Re15 and the Barnes 225 gr. TSX that is fine in my custom Mauser but way too hot for the other two. Kills elk right well too.

Just my thoughts based on my experience with three rifles chambered to the same cartridge.
Paul B.

In my 35 Whelen (rebored Kimber Subalpine) I found 58.0 Re15 under a Woodleigh 250 gr RN and 60.0 Re15 under a 225 gr Barnes TSX gave me the most accurate loads for those individual bullets. I did go 1 1/2 gr higher in each without any pressure signs, but settled on those loads because of accuracy and the fact that the 250 was averaging 2506 fps and the 225 2623 fps. Good enough for me. I did start both at 54 gr and worked up, but again, no pressure. My barrel is now 23 1/4" and a 1 in 14 twist. I don't know why Alliant dropped the max to 54 gr - maybe for the 7600? Terry

What? Remington screwing up on a cartridge?? Say it ain't so!

I guess you gotta give em credit for consistency.

When was the last time they did it well...back when the 7 Rem Mag hit the market?

I don't think I ever looked at the .35 Whelen data in Nosler #8, bit I did just now and they are STILL listing 59.0 grains of Re15 for their 22-grain bullets. I've been using the Accubond and a 59.5 grain charge of Re15 with no problem whatsoever. MOA plus or minus a little, and just shy of 2700 fps out of a 24-inch barrel.

Sure would like to kill something with that rifle. I got it for bear hunting in Arkansas, but we all quit going after the third year straight of seeing not-a-damn-thing. The rifle just doesn't get carried much anymore, and when it does come out of the safe it just seems to be unlucky. I gotta make that change!

the new speer manual lists max average pressure as 62000 psi or 52000 cup.
the new speer manual shows max charge with 250 grain bullet as 54.0 grains of re 15
the new lyman manual lists 54.0 grains also, with 250 grain hornady ; they publish pressure as 50,200 cup

interestingly, woodleigh lists 59.0 grains of re 15 with their 250 grain bullet

My Mark X started out as a 30/06 but was rebored to .35W with a 1:14 twist, and the barrel "crowned" at 23.6" and "throated" for 250gr (Speer) "pointed" bullets. My 7600 Rem. wears the standard 1:16 twist , 22" BBL and will shoot any of the loads that works in the Mark X just as well; all be it, a tad slower. I did shoot a Nilgai this year with the (obsolete) Nosler 225gr "clocking" 2700fps; and I had a complete "pass through" with good results. While the 7600 has as good a "lock up" (two lugs) as most "bolt" guns, it's extraction is suppose to be "weaker". Funny thing is that with all the 250gr loads I've tried (other powder included) recoil is enough to start the "extraction cycle" almost instantaneous after ignition, while not showing any pressure indications regarding the brass. (Yes, I know that without "pressure equipment" this statement is "suspect"; however, I'm not talking about loads at "max" or just under max, just 250gr loads in general!) I cannot load the 7600 with a long enough C.O.A.L to reach the "lead" without exceeding the length of the magazine, so even 250gr bullets have some "jump". As far as the new Speer manual and the listed 54.0gr of RL15 with a 250gr bullet, while listing two other loads in the same column above 2600fps, I would venture a guess they chose not to pursue a load beyond that the "manufacture" published. My "Lee Revised" manual lists the 59.5gr load as previously published by Alliant; while it is a given that Lee obtained permission to reproduce data from other manuals, I do not have the latest "revision to the revision" that is forthcoming. It will be interesting if any change is made to Lee to the "original" charge! I do understand that RL15 is more sensitive to "temperature" changes than the newer powders "hitting the market", but I have been entirely satisfied with RL15 in the Whelen as originally presented.

What is the point of all the random "quotation marks" in that post? That's pretty hard to read.

Are you my old English teacher Ms Manners? Yikes! I'd edit it for you if I thought you had anything to discuss on the subject, but that's obviously not the purpose of your post. Thanks so much for your input.

2nd,,,

I really wasn't trying to be a jerk; it's just that quotes around seemingly every other significant word makes things pretty hard to follow. It also seems that the writer doesn't understand the point of the quotation marks, which are normally used to convey a somewhat different meaning than the quoted word would imply.

Go back to yondering, he was talking CUP vs PSI something we all understand we like things like that! Your like my wife, "Can't you spell anything "? I said, "No" but I understand reloading!