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Does any know what Ross's favorite load is/was for the 44 MAGNUM?


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From the writing, Mr. Seyfried moved on to the heavy loaded 45 Colt. The last article that I recall mentioning the 44 mag Mr. Seyfried recounted using the classic Keith load of 22 gr. 2400 behind a 240/250 gr. cast SWC.

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He referred to his .44 as a boy doing a man’s job in Africa. As penates mentions, he moved on to the .45 Colt as he was underwhelmed.


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I know all about his 45 Colt movement. Prior to the movement he carried a 4 inch M29 44 Magnum on his ranch. I am talking about the 44 Magnum.


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23grs. H110, 250 Keith, magnum primer.

He stated "pressure lower and velocity higher than the original".

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Originally Posted by HawkI
23grs. H110, 250 Keith, magnum primer.

He stated "pressure lower and velocity higher than the original".



Yep



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Unfortunately, he, like many others, abandoned the .44Mag before there were any decent heavy bullets or data available. Everything "claimed" that the .45Colt will do better, the .44 will beat by 50-100fps.

Last edited by CraigC; 05/04/19.
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The 45 Colt wasn't mentioned in the original post but will the 44 Mag beat a 45 Colt in a full sized 5 shot cylinder? Lets say with a 340 grain bullet? What load would you use in a 44 mag with a six chamber cylinder that would beat the 45 Colt by 50 to 100 FPS?

Originally Posted by CraigC
Unfortunately, he, like many others, abandoned the .44Mag before there were any decent heavy bullets or data available. Everything "claimed" that the .45Colt will do better, the .44 will beat by 50-100fps.


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Only at five-shot levels does the .45 begin to pull away but the difference is just as negligible.

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Please show me some examples of this. In all seriousness I would like to know of this.

Originally Posted by CraigC
Only at five-shot levels does the .45 begin to pull away but the difference is just as negligible.


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In an effort not to re-litigate this tired argument, merely running the .45 Colt up to the .44Mag’s SAAMI max of 36,000 psi, with same weight bullets will result in a good 150 - 200 fps velocity advantage over the .44 Mag. It’s just physics. I know some will cite load data that stops at about 30,000 psi for “Ruger-only” loads, but for a true apple to apple comparison, you have to run the same pressures. I had some 335 grain .45 Colt loads pressure tested at 36,000 psi and out of a real loose (had a large cylinder gap) SRH in .454, they would consistently run over 1,400 fps. This will be my first and last post on the topic in this thread.


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The Gun Digest Book of Hunting Revolvers:
https://youtu.be/zKJbjjPaNUE

Bovine Bullet Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s
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Originally Posted by CraigC
Unfortunately, he, like many others, abandoned the .44Mag before there were any decent heavy bullets or data available. Everything "claimed" that the .45Colt will do better, the .44 will beat by 50-100fps.


Ross was using a heavy SSK and two NEI Keith bullets, 315 and 325 grains in the 44 Mag, at the time in Africa. He detested the SSK, a pointy affair.

By all accounts, his five shot Seville would exceed a factory made 44 by a wide margin and did.

Loaded to the same pressure with the same weight bullet with the same nose shape, the 44 will have the potential to penetrate better due to less displacement and greater SD, while the 45 Colt will have more displacement and greater velocity, due to more powder capacity, the same way a 44 can kick a 250 faster than a 41 can, at the same pressure...

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Originally Posted by Whitworth1
In an effort not to re-litigate this tired argument, merely running the .45 Colt up to the .44Mag’s SAAMI max of 36,000 psi, with same weight bullets will result in a good 150 - 200 fps velocity advantage over the .44 Mag. It’s just physics. I know some will cite load data that stops at about 30,000 psi for “Ruger-only” loads, but for a true apple to apple comparison, you have to run the same pressures. I had some 335 grain .45 Colt loads pressure tested at 36,000 psi and out of a real loose (had a large cylinder gap) SRH in .454, they would consistently run over 1,400 fps. This will be my first and last post on the topic in this thread.


This is consistent with the .444/.45-70 argument. The larger bore diameter will allow the same weight bullet to be pushed at lower pressure, or higher velocity at the same pressure.

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HawkI has a point about SD.

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Do the .460&.500 Smith magnums settle the .44/.45 issue? Bigger heavier hammers but faster bullets.


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I can't comment on really large game; between .61 and .72 caliber on deer, there isn't any difference I've noticed. Both break bone and make fairly large holes, the .72 obviously are notably larger, but don't seem to kill any quicker. Heat treated .510's rate right up there and deer sized critters are butter from one end to the other, if they are employed.

I have seen notable differences in calibers from .355 to .45 caliber on the same animals. In my experience, too small of a hole takes a bit more time before the animal realizes its done. A large enough hole, and the results really aren't that different. Depending on bullet design with solids, for deer sized stuff, that "large enough" is around .40 caliber.

Frontal area rules the handgun/solids world and velocity, noise, racket and recoil is a way distant second to applying that area with a decent SD to vital areas.

One would find an "anemic" 44 Special loaded with a good bullet/design miles ahead of a 180 Buffalo Bore in .357, at least from what I've seen with primarily deer, with shots through the lung/heart area.

On larger animals, I can only speculate that the larger frontal areas perform better, but perhaps not in a linear fashion.

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There is a lot of myth mixed in whenever the .45 Colt is cited as operating at a lower pressure or somehow getting more for less (in defiance of Newton's 3rd law) compared to a .44 Mag. The PSI is only one factor in the equation, the area of the cartridge case is another. Simply put the .45 Colt has a larger case, more square inches, so at the same PSI as a .44 Mag the total pressure exerted on the cylinder and frame will be higher.

Two of the common aspects are bolt thrust, which is the rearward force, and hoop stress, which is the radial force exerted on the cylinder or barrel. At 36,000 PSI the bolt thrust of a .44 Mag is 5,204 lbs, a .45 Colt is 5,751 lbs. Hoop stress is affected the same way - more area means more pressure.

I simplified the bolt thrust calculation by using the bullet diameter and not the internal bearing area of the case.


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The point is that Ross and Linebaugh did their comparisons +30yrs ago and everyone operates as if nothing has changed. Seyfried references a 325gr .45 at over 1300fps and that is also easily done with the .44Mag.

In six shot Ruger single actions, it is not an apples to apples comparison to run the .45Colt at .44Mag pressures, because the guns are not equally strong. This is above accepted maximums and standard practices set forth by Linebaugh and a dozen data sources. The .45's whole claim to fame is that the guns are 80% as strong as comparable .44's, which makes it safe to run at double standard SAAMI pressure. IMHO, this is changing the rules so your favorite team wins and there is no readily available 36,000psi/40,000CUP .45Colt data anyway.

Fact is, with the data we have available today, the .44Mag maintains a 50-100fps advantage up to 355/360gr bullets. Plus the .44 bullets penetrate a little better. Depending on who's making the bullet, it may or may not have an appreciably larger meplat. This is not made up or flying by the seat of the pants data, it comes from Hodgdon. This is an inconvenient truth for some.

If the two cartridges are run at 50,000psi in appropriate guns, then and only then does the .45 achieves a 100fps advantage. Also not made up, we have 50,000psi data for both cartridges.

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Horsefeathers. The 45 Colt is magic... almost as magic as the modern 9mm.


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According to Hodgdon data, the 44 Mag runs a 210 XTP a little faster at a little less pressure than the 41 Magnum, even with a shorter barrel. This holds true as bullet weights go up. 41 fans don't get butthurt over that.

What hobbles some (apparently) is that any stock 45 Ruger can be run right up with a 44 Mag for speed (because that's how interior ballistics work) as the same stock Ruger in 44, never mind the 41 Mag comparisons. No matter how you slice it, a 45 Colt at 1,300 with a 300 whatever bullet runs at less pressure driven the same from a 44.

Maybe you should contact Ross Seyfried and tell him he's full of [bleep]. It seems that's your beef here.

On deer sized game, there is very little difference between the two. On the really large animals, Ross Seyfried isn't the only one who perceives a difference between them.
The only real way to hash it out (for yourself or any audience you are trying to garner), is to actually poke enough stuff and advertise it to the degree Ross and Linebaugh did and convince everyone their full of [bleep]...

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