Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns ROSS SEYFRIED QUESTION

Since Ross Seyfried keeps getting mentioned and Dick referenced Handloader #205 in our recent PM exchange as if I had never read it, I retrieved my copy and read it again. The comical part of this is that he begins by describing his pre-conceived notions about the .45Colt and how Linebaugh was contradicting what he "knew" about it from 20yrs prior. Things he learned from reading Elmer Keith, particularly regarding the weak case myth. That Linebaugh effectively challenged his existing beliefs and changed his mind. With data. That sounds vaguely familiar. Except I didn't have to develop this .44 data, Hodgdon did that. All I did was follow directions and write about the results.

Nowhere does it list specific .44 bullets or loads. It's mostly about the .45Colt and he references Hodgdon data extensively. Mind you, this is Hodgdon #26 that was printed in 1992. So for those of you who have your mind made up about this because of something Seyfried wrote, your belief is based on information that was published the year I graduated high school, 27yrs ago. He references 300gr at 1300fps loads in both chamberings and then points out the pressure difference. I don't have Hodgdon #26 but just ordered it from Ebay. I'm fairly certain that the 300gr load he references is either jacketed or an outdated cast bullet. Long before they developed the current heavy bullet data. From there he goes on to a 325gr LFN at 1275fps in a 7½" .45. My testing confirms this with 1240fps out of my 4 5/8" Ruger. The .44Mag did 1280fps with a 320gr. In his table, Seyfried references a 350gr at 1050fps out of the .45Colt. Using the Hodgdon data, I tested the 360gr at 1060fps. In the same Hodgdon data, the .44Mag managed a 355gr WLN at 1130fps. Apparently using better bullets out of the .44 makes quite the difference.

Even when we move up to 50,000psi loads, things are interesting. Seyfried's table shows a 360gr over 1400fps. We know that both Pearce's data and the Buffalo Bore 340gr +P+ are well over 1400fps. Ironically enough this is the same velocity rating as their 360gr .454 load. Pearce shows a 360gr .45 at 1450fps and a 340gr .44 at 1405fps. I'm about to start testing the 355gr WLN loaded long and heavy in a long cylinder Ruger .44Mag and expect to see similar results.

Does anyone have any actual data to contradict this?

Here's a simplified overview of the current Hodgdon data.

They will all work if shots are placed perfectly. To the OP, i would get a max 280 aframe load and use it and not honestly worry about ross’ initial 44 mag loads. He wrote a very interesting article on aframes.

I thank you for your concern. But my question was: "Does any know what Ross's favorite load is/was for the 44 MAGNUM?" I knew it was the 250 "Keith" (if there is a Keith nowadays) and H110 with the CCI350 mag primer but forgot whether it was 23.0 grains or 23.5 grains. Don't really care about the Swift bullets at this time. Don't really care about the 45 Colt and its potential or its nonpotential at this time.
Not asking whether he moved on to bigger things as I am well familiar with Mr Seyfried and his writings over the years.
I asked the question I asked because I asked it because of the above reason.
Again Thank You one and all for the journey on ballistics, bullets etc..

My bad, i think it was 8 grs of h110 over a 180gr lfn with a small meplat.

There is a lot of myth mixed in whenever the .45 Colt is cited as operating at a lower pressure or somehow getting more for less (in defiance of Newton's 3rd law) compared to a .44 Mag. The PSI is only one factor in the equation, the area of the cartridge case is another. Simply put the .45 Colt has a larger case, more square inches, so at the same PSI as a .44 Mag the total pressure exerted on the cylinder and frame will be higher.

Two of the common aspects are bolt thrust, which is the rearward force, and hoop stress, which is the radial force exerted on the cylinder or barrel. At 36,000 PSI the bolt thrust of a .44 Mag is 5,204 lbs, a .45 Colt is 5,751 lbs. Hoop stress is affected the same way - more area means more pressure.

I simplified the bolt thrust calculation by using the bullet diameter and not the internal bearing area of the case.

Don't really care about the 45 Colt and its potential or its nonpotential at this time.

The 45 Colt wasn't mentioned in the original post but will the 44 Mag beat a 45 Colt in a full sized 5 shot cylinder? Lets say with a 340 grain bullet? What load would you use in a 44 mag with a six chamber cylinder that would beat the 45 Colt by 50 to 100 FPS?

Please show me some examples of this. In all seriousness I would like to know of this.

HawkI has a point about SD.

SD is a bs number.

If you can shoot a heavy enough bullet out of the 45 to get consistent exits, the larger diameter 45 bullet will create a larger wound channel and has the speed advantage Max cited which further puts the favor towards the 45.

The 44 is a good round, the 45 is simply better. Same as the 475 trumps the 45, and the 50/500 is the king. If you can handle the recoil, the bigger guns are decisively better tools for the biggest toughest game.