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OP
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I'd be interested in feedback on a rifle I'm having GA Precision put together. I've owned lots of rifles, but this will be my first foray into a custom build. It's driven by my inability to get exactly what I want over-the-counter...I'm sure some of you can relate. This will be a deer rifle first and foremost--primarily used in the mixed hardwood bottoms and open fields of south-central Georgia. I’ll hunt with it almost entirely from enclosed blinds, elevated tripods, and climbing stands, so short and compact with good balance is a must. I’ve learned the expensive way that unnecessary weight and poor handling are not the way I want to go, so I’m looking for that elusive compromise between good handling and stability. This rifle will never be carried a long distance, so heaver than sporter weight is fine. I want a rifle I can practice with out to 600, but my hunting shots will be limited to 300-400 yards. The rifle should be legitimately capabile of 0.5 MOA or better, as I'm a handloader, and I like cutting tiny clusters on paper when I'm not hunting. On the bench, I’ll generally shoot off an Atlas bipod because I find it more stable than a traditional front rest. Here's what I'm thinking:
- #4 or #3B Bartlein contour fluted (cuz I like it) that finishes at 20-21” with a recessed target crown.
- Barrel should be threaded so that I can add a Surefire muzzle brake (later, if I choose).
- Caliber is 308 Winchester. Why? Because I find it stupid easy to load for, and I'm heavily invested in that caliber. Barrel life is forever, downrange energy is good for hunting, and it does well in a short barrel. As for twist rate, either 1:10 or 1:11.25...I generally shoot 165-168s and long 175-178s (e.g. Game Changers, Accubond LR). I want to be able to shoot all the 175-178s up to 185 Juggernauts without worrying about stability under ANY conditions (keep in mind, 20-21" barrel and hot, humid, sea-level). I'm leaning toward 1:10, but tell me if I'm wrong.
- GAP Templar Hunter action (allows top-loading) and PTG Short Action Oberndorf or Badger M4 bottom metal. Not a fan of DBM, as they handle for [bleep] in the woods...
- Manners EH6 (carbon fiber) with a 1” Pachmeyer Decelerator pad. I could be talked into another stock (like the EH-2 or EH-4) if the EH-6 forearm can't accomodate a bipod rail. I think the EH-1 is too bulky for what I'm trying to do here.
- No mini-chassis for this stock...traditional pillars and bedding.
- Drilled and tapped 8x40 for a 20 MOA picatinny rail. Scope will likely be a VX-6HD 2-12x42, as I can get it very low, and I'm not sure you can get better optics for the weight. I like the NF 4-16x42 F1, but it's HEAVY, and I don't need it for this gun.
- Two sling studs up front to accomodate the picatinny rail, but likely flush cups elsewhere.
- PTG 700 Short Action Oberndorf style bottom metal.
- Probably a Timney Calvin Elite or Jewel trigger. Would love the bolt to lock when safety is engaged (if possible).
- If I could keep it close to (or under) 9 pounds before optics, I’d be a happy camper!
Balance, weight, and handling are "king," but tell me what I'm not thinking about! Honestly, the only other caliber I'd consider is 7mm-08, and I like the downrange energy of the .308 at the ranges I'll be shooting. I'm in a trophy club with strict rules/fines, so you really can't shoot 'em any further than you can field score them. Because of this, hunting shots beyond 300-400 just aren't in the cards for this gun. For mountain hunting, long range, and other specialty situations I have other rifles. I plan to go with GAP becuase of their reputation and because their customer service is top notch. I know there are other smiths out there that build excellent rifles, but I think I'm settled on GAP.
Thank you!
Chris
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Look at the Templar VII....split picatinny, 20 moa(open top) machined in, no bolt on rail.
If you go Templar Hunter, it comes with 8X40.
Trigger Tech Diamond is the trigger I'd go with.
If your target weight is nine pounds all up, you may have to go lighter on the barrel contour.
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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I'd take any and all advice that scenarshooter has. I'll just add that I'd skip the PTG bottom metal. Too many reports of it not latching properly (although mine is fine so far).
You shouldn't have trouble shooting bug holes with any GAP chambering. Be sure to give us a report when you get it!
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I’ll hunt with it almost entirely from enclosed blinds, elevated tripods, and climbing stands
Not a fan of DBM, as they handle for [bleep] in the woods... I don't see a problem with DBM. The dang thing will be slung on your shoulder, thru the 'woods' on your strenuous journey to those blinds, stands and tripods. And if your going to take a shot, it will be in both hands, neither of which is close to that pesky, '[bleep]', hangie-down mag. So where is the 'handling' problem? And if it ain't gonna be slung, why bother with the expense of un-needed flushcups?
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He said 9lbs before optics. A factory LTR won't break that ceiling and it's a 20" fluted Rem Varm contour.
I really like the concept the OP outlines and see much merit in a mag-sporter+ .308win with a 21" tube. I once had a 700 with a #4 .223 barrel at 21" and it balanced well in a heavy factory laminate. The flutes and .30cal bore are going to take weight off, so this one would likely balance okay in a lightweight handle, maybe better in a standard-fill fiberglass stock. I'd imagine he's looking at something around a .700-.725" muzzle, plus or minus?
Now with even more aplomb
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I don't see any handling issues with dbm's either and I've got a bunch, but if it aint your thing it aint your thing.
I'd drop contour to a 2b and go 7-08.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Sounds a lot like a GAP Nontypical with a shorter barrel and a Manners upgrade. http://www.gaprecision.net/non-typical.html
Last edited by MallardAddict; 05/08/19.
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OP
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Look at the Templar VII....split picatinny, 20 moa(open top) machined in, no bolt on rail.
If you go Templar Hunter, it comes with 8X40.
Trigger Tech Diamond is the trigger I'd go with.
If your target weight is nine pounds all up, you may have to go lighter on the barrel contour. I"m not opposed to the Templar Hunter II...just wasn't sure I needed it. Seems kind of...permanent! Copy on the barrel contour though...that's my primary design constraint. I'd rather sacrifice a little weight than go heaver than a #4; that's practically a Varmint contour when finished to 20-21".
Chris
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I'd take any and all advice that scenarshooter has. I'll just add that I'd skip the PTG bottom metal. Too many reports of it not latching properly (although mine is fine so far).
You shouldn't have trouble shooting bug holes with any GAP chambering. Be sure to give us a report when you get it! Okay, good information. I hadn't heard that. GAP acted like it was their preferred bottom metal for a BDL style setup. I was leaning toward the M4 originally.
Chris
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OP
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I’ll hunt with it almost entirely from enclosed blinds, elevated tripods, and climbing stands
Not a fan of DBM, as they handle for [bleep] in the woods... I don't see a problem with DBM. The dang thing will be slung on your shoulder, thru the 'woods' on your strenuous journey to those blinds, stands and tripods. And if your going to take a shot, it will be in both hands, neither of which is close to that pesky, '[bleep]', hangie-down mag. So where is the 'handling' problem? And if it ain't gonna be slung, why bother with the expense of un-needed flushcups? I just don't like it. I like the option of carrying the gun by the belly, and you just can't do that with an M5 type setup unless the mag isn't installed. Sometimes, it'll be slung, and that's why I like the flushcups. Sometimes, it'll have a sling on it, but I'll cradle it in my hand anyway. I like options. If I could find a trim, flush-mount DBM system (like on a Steyr), I'd be all in. Unfortunately, Badger's stuff is all gangly with it's mag release levers and what not. I have one, and I just don't care for it despite it being quality kit.
Chris
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All good choices, enjoy!! Good luck to you!
Keep your head on the stock,wood on wood
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If the Gladius and the Non-Typical had a love child, this would be it. I'm essentially trying to bridge the gap (no pun intended) between the two, as I looked hard at both and decided what I really wanted was in between. GAP can't stray much from either design and still call it one or the other (the receivers are stamped), so this winds up being a custom build for that reason. I could probably chop the barrel on the nontypical and upgrade the stock and action, but I couldn't also increase its barrel contour. We're getting at the same end state.
Chris
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He said 9lbs before optics. A factory LTR won't break that ceiling and it's a 20" fluted Rem Varm contour.
I really like the concept the OP outlines and see much merit in a mag-sporter+ .308win with a 21" tube. I once had a 700 with a #4 .223 barrel at 21" and it balanced well in a heavy factory laminate. The flutes and .30cal bore are going to take weight off, so this one would likely balance okay in a lightweight handle, maybe better in a standard-fill fiberglass stock. I'd imagine he's looking at something around a .700-.725" muzzle, plus or minus?
You're not wrong about the LTR...or the 20" 5R. But, they're factory rifles at the end of the day, and I've been unimpressed with the QC on the last couple of Remington specimens I've spent time with. I do have a 5R that shoots lights out, and I thought about just sending that action in, having it trued, and just replacing everything around it. However, I really like the Templar action, and I think I'd like to own a custom after all these years. You make a great point about the stock/barrel combo, and I'm a little worried about that. I'm afraid that with a carbon stock the #4 contour (even finished to 20") would be a little front heavy. I was hoping that the #3B might work better (fluted) for balance at 20-21". I'm not sure how to know without rolling the dice...
Chris
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Is that a flush mag installed, and it also accepts AI format mags?
Chris
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I believe so...it seems to offer a lot of options, waiting to see actual pricing!
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I have a rifle similar to what you're thinking that weighs in at 9# 15oz... here's the specs... built by GA Precision...
Templar V1 short action
Bartlein #3 at 20" in 308win
Manners EH6 with PTG bdl style bottom metal
Nightforce 3.5-15x50
Seekins rings
It's a very nice handling rifle... and shoots very well...
Public landowner...
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd be interested in feedback on a rifle I'm having GA Precision put together. I've owned lots of rifles, but this will be my first foray into a custom build. It's driven by my inability to get exactly what I want over-the-counter...I'm sure some of you can relate. This will be a deer rifle first and foremost--primarily used in the mixed hardwood bottoms and open fields of south-central Georgia. I’ll hunt with it almost entirely from enclosed blinds, elevated tripods, and climbing stands, so short and compact with good balance is a must. I’ve learned the expensive way that unnecessary weight and poor handling are not the way I want to go, so I’m looking for that elusive compromise between good handling and stability. This rifle will never be carried a long distance, so heaver than sporter weight is fine. I want a rifle I can practice with out to 600, but my hunting shots will be limited to 300-400 yards. The rifle should be legitimately capabile of 0.5 MOA or better, as I'm a handloader, and I like cutting tiny clusters on paper when I'm not hunting. On the bench, I’ll generally shoot off an Atlas bipod because I find it more stable than a traditional front rest. Here's what I'm thinking:
- #4 or #3B Bartlein contour fluted (cuz I like it) that finishes at 20-21” with a recessed target crown.
- Barrel should be threaded so that I can add a Surefire muzzle brake (later, if I choose).
- Caliber is 308 Winchester. Why? Because I find it stupid easy to load for, and I'm heavily invested in that caliber. Barrel life is forever, downrange energy is good for hunting, and it does well in a short barrel. As for twist rate, either 1:10 or 1:11.25...I generally shoot 165-168s and long 175-178s (e.g. Game Changers, Accubond LR). I want to be able to shoot all the 175-178s up to 185 Juggernauts without worrying about stability under ANY conditions (keep in mind, 20-21" barrel and hot, humid, sea-level). I'm leaning toward 1:10, but tell me if I'm wrong.
- GAP Templar Hunter action (allows top-loading) and PTG Short Action Oberndorf or Badger M4 bottom metal. Not a fan of DBM, as they handle for [bleep] in the woods...
- Manners EH6 (carbon fiber) with a 1” Pachmeyer Decelerator pad. I could be talked into another stock (like the EH-2 or EH-4) if the EH-6 forearm can't accomodate a bipod rail. I think the EH-1 is too bulky for what I'm trying to do here.
- No mini-chassis for this stock...traditional pillars and bedding.
- Drilled and tapped 8x40 for a 20 MOA picatinny rail. Scope will likely be a VX-6HD 2-12x42, as I can get it very low, and I'm not sure you can get better optics for the weight. I like the NF 4-16x42 F1, but it's HEAVY, and I don't need it for this gun.
- Two sling studs up front to accomodate the picatinny rail, but likely flush cups elsewhere.
- PTG 700 Short Action Oberndorf style bottom metal.
- Probably a Timney Calvin Elite or Jewel trigger. Would love the bolt to lock when safety is engaged (if possible).
- If I could keep it close to (or under) 9 pounds before optics, I’d be a happy camper!
Balance, weight, and handling are "king," but tell me what I'm not thinking about! Honestly, the only other caliber I'd consider is 7mm-08, and I like the downrange energy of the .308 at the ranges I'll be shooting. I'm in a trophy club with strict rules/fines, so you really can't shoot 'em any further than you can field score them. Because of this, hunting shots beyond 300-400 just aren't in the cards for this gun. For mountain hunting, long range, and other specialty situations I have other rifles. I plan to go with GAP becuase of their reputation and because their customer service is top notch. I know there are other smiths out there that build excellent rifles, but I think I'm settled on GAP.
Thank you!
Scratch that itch!! That'll be a dandy, even in 308!! 😀
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'd be interested in feedback on a rifle I'm having GA Precision put together. I've owned lots of rifles, but this will be my first foray into a custom build. It's driven by my inability to get exactly what I want over-the-counter...I'm sure some of you can relate. This will be a deer rifle first and foremost--primarily used in the mixed hardwood bottoms and open fields of south-central Georgia. I’ll hunt with it almost entirely from enclosed blinds, elevated tripods, and climbing stands, so short and compact with good balance is a must. I’ve learned the expensive way that unnecessary weight and poor handling are not the way I want to go, so I’m looking for that elusive compromise between good handling and stability. This rifle will never be carried a long distance, so heaver than sporter weight is fine. I want a rifle I can practice with out to 600, but my hunting shots will be limited to 300-400 yards. The rifle should be legitimately capabile of 0.5 MOA or better, as I'm a handloader, and I like cutting tiny clusters on paper when I'm not hunting. On the bench, I’ll generally shoot off an Atlas bipod because I find it more stable than a traditional front rest. Here's what I'm thinking:
- #4 or #3B Bartlein contour fluted (cuz I like it) that finishes at 20-21” with a recessed target crown.
- Barrel should be threaded so that I can add a Surefire muzzle brake (later, if I choose).
- Caliber is 308 Winchester. Why? Because I find it stupid easy to load for, and I'm heavily invested in that caliber. Barrel life is forever, downrange energy is good for hunting, and it does well in a short barrel. As for twist rate, either 1:10 or 1:11.25...I generally shoot 165-168s and long 175-178s (e.g. Game Changers, Accubond LR). I want to be able to shoot all the 175-178s up to 185 Juggernauts without worrying about stability under ANY conditions (keep in mind, 20-21" barrel and hot, humid, sea-level). I'm leaning toward 1:10, but tell me if I'm wrong.
- GAP Templar Hunter action (allows top-loading) and PTG Short Action Oberndorf or Badger M4 bottom metal. Not a fan of DBM, as they handle for [bleep] in the woods...
- Manners EH6 (carbon fiber) with a 1” Pachmeyer Decelerator pad. I could be talked into another stock (like the EH-2 or EH-4) if the EH-6 forearm can't accomodate a bipod rail. I think the EH-1 is too bulky for what I'm trying to do here.
- No mini-chassis for this stock...traditional pillars and bedding.
- Drilled and tapped 8x40 for a 20 MOA picatinny rail. Scope will likely be a VX-6HD 2-12x42, as I can get it very low, and I'm not sure you can get better optics for the weight. I like the NF 4-16x42 F1, but it's HEAVY, and I don't need it for this gun.
- Two sling studs up front to accomodate the picatinny rail, but likely flush cups elsewhere.
- PTG 700 Short Action Oberndorf style bottom metal.
- Probably a Timney Calvin Elite or Jewel trigger. Would love the bolt to lock when safety is engaged (if possible).
- If I could keep it close to (or under) 9 pounds before optics, I’d be a happy camper!
Balance, weight, and handling are "king," but tell me what I'm not thinking about! Honestly, the only other caliber I'd consider is 7mm-08, and I like the downrange energy of the .308 at the ranges I'll be shooting. I'm in a trophy club with strict rules/fines, so you really can't shoot 'em any further than you can field score them. Because of this, hunting shots beyond 300-400 just aren't in the cards for this gun. For mountain hunting, long range, and other specialty situations I have other rifles. I plan to go with GAP becuase of their reputation and because their customer service is top notch. I know there are other smiths out there that build excellent rifles, but I think I'm settled on GAP.
Thank you!
HILARIOUS! Hint...……………….
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2008
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145 |
I have a rifle similar to what you're thinking that weighs in at 9# 15oz... here's the specs... built by GA Precision...
Templar V1 short action
Bartlein #3 at 20" in 308win
Manners EH6 with PTG bdl style bottom metal
Nightforce 3.5-15x50
Seekins rings
It's a very nice handling rifle... and shoots very well... That’s almost identical. Would you mind posting or sending photos? If you had gone with a 3B or 4 contour, how do you think it would have effected the balance?
Chris
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Joined: Nov 2004
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I have a bat machine vr pic action, machined in pic rail and recoil lug. I personally think the solid top machined in pic rail across the top of the action adds a huge amount of stiffness to the action. I feel this makes a noticeable difference. It’s also a slick way of the having no extra parts. I have no issues top loading or unloading this action. Defiance makes a very similar action, and they also make an action that has a thinned out machined in rail over the cutout. I would first get their version of action that us similar to mine if you still insit on action cut out size and are worried about it. I bet gap could get one of those defiance actions like I describe. I hadn’t looked at defiance stuff in a while imo it looks have options for anything a guy could want. Wanna know a custom action company that fell,off the map? Surgeon wtf happened to them
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Campfire Outfitter
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The Curtis Customs looks pretty sweet. I need to get one on the way. A cost effective option for a lower profile mag (but not completely flush fit), is Ruger's polymer 3-round mag. It extends a tad but you can still carry with your hand under the action. http://shopruger.com/AI-Style-Polymer-308-Win-3-Round-Magazine/productinfo/90560/
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If you're stuck on using a BDL bottom metal I would look into the Hawkins Precision model. https://hawkinsprecision.com/bottom-metal/
-Matt
"The proof of the whisky is in the drinking, the proof of the rifle is in the shooting."
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3B and 4 are stout barrels. A #3 is plenty, 3B max.
BTW, I have ordered the parts and now playing the waiting game for essentially the same blueprint and for the same purposes. I went with a #3 after mulling over it and the 3B for a while. Beanland is building mine. I agree with you on the BDL bottom, I went with Hawkins BDL.
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I can like everything about that setup - though while I like a wee chunkier barrel, a #3 Bartlein (3 not 3B) is about perfection from where I'm seated in the peanut gallery.  But you've only got to please you.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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I’ll hunt with it almost entirely from enclosed blinds, elevated tripods, and climbing stands
Not a fan of DBM, as they handle for [bleep] in the woods... I don't see a problem with DBM. The dang thing will be slung on your shoulder, thru the 'woods' on your strenuous journey to those blinds, stands and tripods. And if your going to take a shot, it will be in both hands, neither of which is close to that pesky, '[bleep]', hangie-down mag. So where is the 'handling' problem? And if it ain't gonna be slung, why bother with the expense of un-needed flushcups? I just don't like it. I like the option of carrying the gun by the belly, and you just can't do that with an M5 type setup unless the mag isn't installed. Sometimes, it'll be slung, and that's why I like the flushcups. Sometimes, it'll have a sling on it, but I'll cradle it in my hand anyway. I like options. If I could find a trim, flush-mount DBM system (like on a Steyr), I'd be all in. Unfortunately, Badger's stuff is all gangly with it's mag release levers and what not. I have one, and I just don't care for it despite it being quality kit. I carry my rifles in my hand as much as on my shoulder, and have never had an issue with a DBM system. The balance point is always right in front of the guard screw, never behind it. As far as PT&G hinged floorplate vs Badger M4, there is no comparison in quality. Badger wins hands down.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I prefer a Stealth DBM for carry and everything else.
Hint...………...
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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My non-typical; fluted barrel and brake: ![[Linked Image]](https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4669/sh1vfR.jpg)
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Pat, you've got to remember we're in the south. We're rednecks. A smooth belly is much more convenient to lay on the hood of the truck or the roof of the SxS.
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My non-typical; fluted barrel and brake: Nice! I did a T&E for GAP on that platform, years ago in a .300WSM. A real hammer!
Luck....is the residue of design...
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My non-typical; fluted barrel and brake: Nice! I did a T&E for GAP on that platform, years ago in a .300WSM. A real hammer! As an all arounder it’s probably one of the most well thought out rifles. I absolutely loved mine but rifle add got me
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#3 bart is plenty of meat for a carry huntin rifle. Hawkins is king for BDL, but having one and thinking of a new build I would go DBM all the way. Slap in a flush mag if I felt the need.
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,423 |
Friends, Scenarshooter (my buddy Pat) is without a doubt the most knowledgeable hunter and shooter (there IS a difference) that I've ever known.
I can remember he two of us crawling side-by-side through a patch of insufferable prickly-pear cactus and getting within range of my .280 Ackley. Pat was by my side all the way and this particular hunt was one of the finest in my loooong hunting career.
When Pat speaks, I listen … closely. And I'd recommend that all of you do too.
Blessings,
Steve
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us"
Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's a rather Halibut-esque Blueprint.
While I love Marty,I don't much care for his alloy M4's.
Hint..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Friends, Scenarshooter (my buddy Pat) is without a doubt the most knowledgeable hunter and shooter (there IS a difference) that I've ever known.
I can remember he two of us crawling side-by-side through a patch of insufferable prickly-pear cactus and getting within range of my .280 Ackley. Pat was by my side all the way and this particular hunt was one of the finest in my loooong hunting career.
When Pat speaks, I listen … closely. And I'd recommend that all of you do too.
Blessings,
Steve
Gracious words my friend...thanks, and likewise. I can't believe that antelope hunt was 22 years ago. Helluva buck! I've got a picture somewhere....
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Friends, Scenarshooter (my buddy Pat) is without a doubt the most knowledgeable hunter and shooter (there IS a difference) that I've ever known.
I can remember he two of us crawling side-by-side through a patch of insufferable prickly-pear cactus and getting within range of my .280 Ackley. Pat was by my side all the way and this particular hunt was one of the finest in my loooong hunting career.
When Pat speaks, I listen … closely. And I'd recommend that all of you do too.
Blessings,
Steve
Gracious words my friend...thanks, and likewise. I can't believe that antelope hunt was 22 years ago. Helluva buck! I've got a picture somewhere.... To have friends the caliber of you two is what every good man I know strives for. I’ve tons of buddies but only about two or three that are lifers. Brothers are a blessing. Find that picture pat I want visual.
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Campfire Ranger
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It's a rather Halibut-esque Blueprint.
While I love Marty,I don't much care for his alloy M4's.
Hint.................. Noone cares....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/020SHG88/IMG-7530.jpg) I think this was 1997. Classic spot and stalk antelope hunt. Steve's wife, Karen got a nice one on the same hunt...I'll see if I can locate that picture.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/3Rj2sNVG/IMG-7531.jpg) Karen's buck, taken on the same hunt. If I recall, she used her 250/3000 Ackley, and made a perfect shot.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Campfire Outfitter
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Karen's buck, taken on the same hunt. If I recall, she used her 250/3000 Ackley, and made a perfect shot. 👍👍👍. That’s awesome!! going antelope this year for the first time if everything works out. Those bucks are awesome.
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I have a bat machine vr pic action, machined in pic rail and recoil lug. I personally think the solid top machined in pic rail across the top of the action adds a huge amount of stiffness to the action. I feel this makes a noticeable difference. It’s also a slick way of the having no extra parts. I have no issues top loading or unloading this action. Defiance makes a very similar action, and they also make an action that has a thinned out machined in rail over the cutout. I would first get their version of action that us similar to mine if you still insit on action cut out size and are worried about it. I bet gap could get one of those defiance actions like I describe. I hadn’t looked at defiance stuff in a while imo it looks have options for anything a guy could want. Wanna know a custom action company that fell,off the map? Surgeon wtf happened to them [quote=cumminscowboy] I could be wrong about this, but isn’t GAP’s Templar II a Defiance action? Just seems like more weight than I need, but I could be wrong!
Chris
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Thank you. I will. I wasn’t familiar with them.
Chris
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3B and 4 are stout barrels. A #3 is plenty, 3B max.
BTW, I have ordered the parts and now playing the waiting game for essentially the same blueprint and for the same purposes. I went with a #3 after mulling over it and the 3B for a while. Beanland is building mine. I agree with you on the BDL bottom, I went with Hawkins BDL. Hawkins, a fluted 3B at 21”, and the EH2 or EH6 is really speaking to me. I get it...heavier than is needed. GAP says that the EH6 will slow things down a bit, as they have standing orders for the EH2. Thinking about it more, the slightly wider forearm of the EH2 may be desirable to me.
Chris
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My non-typical; fluted barrel and brake: Is that M4 or PTG?
Chris
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Pat, you've got to remember we're in the south. We're rednecks. A smooth belly is much more convenient to lay on the hood of the truck or the roof of the SxS. I can’t quite figure out if you’re being tongue-in-cheek. Seriously fellas, I cannot be the only one who has tried to carry their rifle in front of the M5 with AI mag installed and felt it was balanced too far back?? To be fair though, that was with a T-4A stock...pretty butt-heavy. I do like the way rounds strip off the top of a single-stack mag though...
Chris
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's a rather Halibut-esque Blueprint.
While I love Marty,I don't much care for his alloy M4's.
Hint.................. Noone cares.... Few care as much as you. Congratulations?!? Do not "forget",that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery and your only "move". Hint..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Pat, you've got to remember we're in the south. We're rednecks. A smooth belly is much more convenient to lay on the hood of the truck or the roof of the SxS. I can’t quite figure out if you’re being tongue-in-cheek. Seriously fellas, I cannot be the only one who has tried to carry their rifle in front of the M5 with AI mag installed and felt it was balanced too far back?? To be fair though, that was with a T-4A stock...pretty butt-heavy. I do like the way rounds strip off the top of a single-stack mag though... Build for balance/handling. Hint..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Richard - it is whatever GAP uses on their standard Non-Typical. I'm sure Pat et al can be more specific. I like it a lot. Having said that, local buddy has the xtreme hunter with the APA style and it's just as nice.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Pat, you've got to remember we're in the south. We're rednecks. A smooth belly is much more convenient to lay on the hood of the truck or the roof of the SxS. I can’t quite figure out if you’re being tongue-in-cheek. Seriously fellas, I cannot be the only one who has tried to carry their rifle in front of the M5 with AI mag installed and felt it was balanced too far back?? To be fair though, that was with a T-4A stock...pretty butt-heavy. I do like the way rounds strip off the top of a single-stack mag though... That was NOT tongue in cheek (maybe a little bit). I often shoot with the rifle rested on the hood of the truck, or standing in the back of a SxS with the rifle resting on the roof. A magazine makes it much more awkward.
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Pat, you've got to remember we're in the south. We're rednecks. A smooth belly is much more convenient to lay on the hood of the truck or the roof of the SxS. I can’t quite figure out if you’re being tongue-in-cheek. Seriously fellas, I cannot be the only one who has tried to carry their rifle in front of the M5 with AI mag installed and felt it was balanced too far back?? To be fair though, that was with a T-4A stock...pretty butt-heavy. I do like the way rounds strip off the top of a single-stack mag though... That was NOT tongue in cheek (maybe a little bit). I often shoot with the rifle rested on the hood of the truck, or standing in the back of a SxS with the rifle resting on the roof. A magazine makes it much more awkward. I thought you shot from the tractor? ....grin.... I dislike a mag below the stock line while hunting for how I usually carry a rifle with one hand under the action. Yeah, it can still be done but it's not as comfortable for me. The Curtis Customs would be a game changer for hunting.....would love to see one for .223's as the 5 round Accurate-Mag still has enough protrusion that I skip it and carry a blind mag if I'm going up the mountain.
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Tractors too, but I didn't want to give away all of my secret hunting techniques. Thanks Jay.  While we're on the subject, I've been know to use a grill for a rest. The rifle is in a totally supported position with the grill pushed all the way up to the trigger guard and can be steadied for long long shot. Doesn't work at all with a magazine. When I'm grill hunting its BDL or ADL.
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I spent an hour on the phone with Jeremy at GAP yesterday afternoon. Several of the recommendations I got from folks in this thread we’re key to my decisions, so thanks to everyone for their input. Here’s where things stand...probably going to pull the trigger on Monday.
- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Did you know that Defiance/GAP makes a M70 style 3-position safety for the Templar??? It’s $460 extra and a long wait, but so tempting as I really wanted a safety that would lock the bolt.
Question: I am only interested in shooting this gun to 600 yards, and I am not a high-volume shooter. If I stay in the 168-178 grain range for projectiles (maybe some 185 Juggernauts here and there), should I go with the 10 or 11.25 twist? I have no interest in finding out later that a really long 178 won’t stabilize...but is 10 twist really going to drive up pressure and cause premature throat erosion? Will accuracy suffer if I’m spinning them too fast?
Chris
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Go the 10 twist it’ll stabilize most anything you want to shoot...but I’d shoot the 155 Scenar...
Public landowner...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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8" and 7-08.
Hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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8" and 7-08.
Hint................ I’ve thought hard about the 7-08...but 8 twist? I can’t imagine shooting heavier than the 168.
Chris
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Pass the .796BC and hold the Fluff...if only because I shoot it all and then some.
Hint.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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I spent an hour on the phone with Jeremy at GAP yesterday afternoon. Several of the recommendations I got from folks in this thread we’re key to my decisions, so thanks to everyone for their input. Here’s where things stand...probably going to pull the trigger on Monday.
- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Did you know that Defiance/GAP makes a M70 style 3-position safety for the Templar??? It’s $460 extra and a long wait, but so tempting as I really wanted a safety that would lock the bolt.
Question: I am only interested in shooting this gun to 600 yards, and I am not a high-volume shooter. If I stay in the 168-178 grain range for projectiles (maybe some 185 Juggernauts here and there), should I go with the 10 or 11.25 twist? I have no interest in finding out later that a really long 178 won’t stabilize...but is 10 twist really going to drive up pressure and cause premature throat erosion? Will accuracy suffer if I’m spinning them too fast? I’ve had both 10” and 11” twist in .308. There’s no down side to going with 10”. Mine shot at least as well if not better than the 11” twist. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Kahuna
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10,11 and 12" here. Reserve RPM opens doors,lack of same closes 'em.
Hint...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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10,11 and 12" here. Reserve RPM opens doors,lack of same closes 'em.
Hint................... Have you ever seen 10 twist be a hindrance to accuracy with the 150-155s? Or, same question with the 8 twist and 120-140s in 7-08?
Last edited by richardca99; 05/11/19.
Chris
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10,11 and 12" here. Reserve RPM opens doors,lack of same closes 'em.
Hint................... Have you ever seen 10 twist be a hindrance to accuracy with the 150-155s? Or, same question with the 8 twist and 120-140s in 7-08? I have never seen a quick twisted rifle shoot poorly with lighter bullets myself. I can’t see any negative to running fast twist with any well built bullet. Next 300 will be an 8 twist just to get in on the heavier longer bullets that keep popping up. I’d fast twist slows bullets and raises pressures in any meaningful way I cannot see it with my Magnetospeed.
Semper Fi
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Beware that the EH2 has a lot of heel drop, very similar to McMillans HTG. They do not fit me at all. Fit is subjective, just making sure you're aware.
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I have a few 8 twist and they shoot 155s just as well as the 10 twist...
Public landowner...
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RPM is a bullet's BEST friend.
Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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RPM is a bullet's BEST friend.
Hint............... Oh Jesus your talking about [bleep] you have no idea about AGAIN.
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Pardon my shooting it all...as you "get" to read about it and revel in the Splendid Pixels. Congratulations?!?
Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Kind of like this? Bartlein #3, 20” TBAC CB Templar V1 sheep hunter 15 MOA non-typical rail EH-2 APA RTG DBM ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/hGNsjQHy/5-EC53504-1-CFC-4-B23-933-F-7041-D4908-E68.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/kGvvf1Dz/3-F223-DC7-9095-4840-BBBF-CAA37-CAD9-D21.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/HsT2Vghg/0-E494-B0-F-1226-4-D6-B-A710-0-C48-A429-CD60.jpg)
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Thanks to George, Pat, Scott and Jamie... bunch of enablers!
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Thanks to George, Pat, Scott and Jamie... bunch of enablers! Looks real nice Marty...you’re gonna talk me into ordering my first Gap...
Public landowner...
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That sure looks nice Marty - what caliber is that one??
"Rather hunt Mule deer than anything else"
"Team 7MM-08"
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Thanks to George, Pat, Scott and Jamie... bunch of enablers! Looks real nice Marty...you’re gonna talk me into ordering my first Gap... LOL
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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That sure looks nice Marty - what caliber is that one?? Frank, I drank the Koolaid. 6.5 creed....
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Good call Marty - I'm kicking around building/buying one myself 
"Rather hunt Mule deer than anything else"
"Team 7MM-08"
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- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Kind of like this? Bartlein #3, 20” TBAC CB Templar V1 sheep hunter 15 MOA non-typical rail EH-2 APA RTG DBM Rather skookum.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Beware that the EH2 has a lot of heel drop, very similar to McMillans HTG. They do not fit me at all. Fit is subjective, just making sure you're aware. So the EH2 looks similar to the McMillan Hunter format, which has a similar drop at heel. That is my favorite stock, so I'm guessing I'll be okay with the EH2. Curious why it doesn't fit you though...is it only in a particular shooting position?
Chris
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- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Kind of like this? Bartlein #3, 20” TBAC CB Templar V1 sheep hunter 15 MOA non-typical rail EH-2 APA RTG DBM Man, that's it! So what would you have done differently...
Chris
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I have a few 8 twist and they shoot 155s just as well as the 10 twist... Good to know...thanks Cinch.
Chris
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- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Kind of like this? Bartlein #3, 20” TBAC CB Templar V1 sheep hunter 15 MOA non-typical rail EH-2 APA RTG DBM As I think Scenarshooter mentioned, that #3 looks heavier than I expected. It doesn't scare me away from a 3B, but it's clearly not a sporter profile.
Chris
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Beware that the EH2 has a lot of heel drop, very similar to McMillans HTG. They do not fit me at all. Fit is subjective, just making sure you're aware. So the EH2 looks similar to the McMillan Hunter format, which has a similar drop at heel. That is my favorite stock, so I'm guessing I'll be okay with the EH2. Curious why it doesn't fit you though...is it only in a particular shooting position? It'd be nice if McMillan would list their stock specs like Manners. https://mannersstocks.com/stock-technical-specifications/For me, the lower heel makes pad shoulder contact way too low. In a standing shooting position its manageable (but not ideal). The closer to the ground, the worse it gets. In prone the pad is literally below my shoulder with only the top tip contacting the lowest part of my shoulder. I absolutely hate it, but that's just me. Regarding barrels, as previously mentioned, I just went through the exact same decision and went Bartein 3 over the 3B. I have a rifle built on a Bighorn, EH3, and Barlein 2B that is nearly perfect, and shoots phenomenal. The only reason I upped the contour to a 3 was the fact that 2B is in 6.5 and the .308 is a much bigger hole.
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Man, that's it! So what would you have done differently...
Not much, it was on their rifles ready to ship page, and was what I had in mind for a build. Talked to George and he recommended to chop the barrel to 20” to provide the min .725” for the TBAC CB. Added the rail. That was it! The sheep hunter port just cuts the port side of the action to trim some weight. I’ll probably try the Templar VII with GAP hunter port like Pat suggested for a future build, to try the integrated split bases rather than a rail.
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Good call Marty - I'm kicking around building/buying one myself Perfect antelope and mule deer rifle!
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Stock fit is highly subjective but for me, I'd skip the Manners, the 308 and the #3b..........Manners EH-2 - 8"s just don't fit me well. The reach to the trigger is the problem, though the stocks are very well built, I just can't get behind them!
Anything vertical gripped from Manners or McMillian works fine for me but for Sporter up to Varmint type stocks, I like McMillan!
I'm 6'4" and 250lbs, yet I like tight closed grips with a palm swell. Anyone smaller is likely to have similar problems with Manners (most won't even know it). Not having to reach for the trigger with a good cheek weld is what I'm looking for.....
Bartlein 3b's are unnecessarily heavy for what your describing and .308's suck heavy ass in comparison to most everything chambered and properly throated these days...
If I were about to drop GAP money I'd be thinking Bartlein 2B, McMillan Hunter w/Edge technology and 8" twist 7mm-08......
X-VERMINATOR
Last edited by xverminator; 05/12/19.
Sooner or later our heritage of hunting is going to be a rich mans sport and the words "Outfitter" and "Hunt Industry" will be synonymous with cancer and A.I.D.S. among blue collar hunters like me and my family! (A.L. Williams - 2010)
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A Douglas #3 in a Classic...is a Halibut and LEGENDARY.(grin)
Hint..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Man, that's it! So what would you have done differently...
Not much, it was on their rifles ready to ship page, and was what I had in mind for a build. Talked to George and he recommended to chop the barrel to 20” to provide the min .725” for the TBAC CB. Added the rail. That was it! The sheep hunter port just cuts the port side of the action to trim some weight. I’ll probably try the Templar VII with GAP hunter port like Pat suggested for a future build, to try the integrated split bases rather than a rail. I like it.
Chris
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As I think Scenarshooter mentioned, that #3 looks heavier than I expected. It doesn't scare me away from a 3B, but it's clearly not a sporter profile.
Chris - the Bartlein #3 is equivalent to many #4's. I wanted a bit heavier tube on my 6mm Creedmoor and it surely got me that. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Q4SOwHU.jpg)
WWP53D
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Well, I did it. Order placed yesterday. Thanks for all the helpful feedback everyone provided (even if I didn't follow your recommendations). Remember that this was not intended to be a lightweight carry rifle. It's a rifle for hunting from fixed stands and blinds, and it'll be shot off the bench a lot. I know that the CRF was completely unnecessary, but I really like the FN SPR and DBM setup (except for it not being AICS compatible), and this is a setup that I'm really interested in trying from Defiance. I like the three-position safeties because they block the firing pin (not just the sear) and lock the bolt when engaged. The APA RTG was a departure for me; the more I looked at it and the Curtis magazine, the more I decided I could get the best of both worlds with this setup. GAP really likes that bottom metal (it's their standard now on magazine guns).
This will be very similar to a 20" M700 5R, and that's a format I really like. Or, if you like, an FN SPR with a much more trim stock.
- Manners EH2 with painted (Cerakote) GAP camo by Larsen Tactical
- Templar V1 (Hunter) with controlled-round feed and three-position safety
- APA RTG bottom metal with Curtis 3-round flush fit magazine
- Bartlein #4 fluted, 10" twist, finished at 21"
- Trigger Tech Special tuned to 2.5 lbs.
- Nitrided bolt and action
- Atlas pic rail on the forearm for bipod use
- Cerakote graphite black
Chris
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The parts list couldn't be any better should be a very accurate rifle....looking forward to some pics!
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Awesome. Do we get to spend your money on a scope now?
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Right on Richard. Need pics when done.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Awesome. Do we get to spend your money on a scope now? I have a VX-6HD 2-12x42 ready to go. If I get a wild hair, it'll be a NF 4-16x42 F1.
Last edited by richardca99; 05/16/19.
Chris
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Chris,
Looking forward to seeing the end result!
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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My custom build lesson-learned was not to allow so much shank. Tube is heavy on that end! Went 2b on a .223 and it’s no lightweight. Of course the shorter barrel will help.
Bob
Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Man I hate to be the spoiler but my money is on you regretting the Bartlien #4. They are heavy. Rifle is going to be 10 lbs with a 20oz scope and picatinny rings.
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Man I hate to be the spoiler but my money is on you regretting the Bartlien #4. They are heavy. Rifle is going to be 10 lbs with a 20oz scope and picatinny rings. I really don’t think. But, if I am, barrels are easily replaced.
Chris
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The only way to know is to try it. I know thats the way I learned.
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And now the wait. Looking forward to the report!
WWP53D
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- #3B Bartlein contour fluted that finishes at 21”
- 10 or 11.25 twist .308 Win (still struggling on this...)
- Barrel threaded with protector.
- Templar V1 Hunter action.
- Manners EH2 stock
- Hawkins BDL bottom metal
- Trigger Tech Primary or Special
Graphite black Cerakote, nitrited action interior, and GAP camo paint on the stock (they have a guy who does their stock patterns to make them look like the McMillan versions (which I love).
Kind of like this? Bartlein #3, 20” TBAC CB Templar V1 sheep hunter 15 MOA non-typical rail EH-2 APA RTG DBM So...I did something I should have done two weeks ago. I got my calipers out and took a hard look at the dimensions of the factory barrels I have on-hand. I also took a close look at photos of some EH2s inletted for #4 Bartlein contours. With "hat in hand," here's what I've determined: - The #4 Bartlein looks WAY too thick for the forearm on the EH2. They make it work, but the sides of the stock are paper thin toward the front of the forearm, and I don't like it. - Most of you suggested that I go no heavier than #3 Bartlein, and you were right. Spending some time with my calipers, I've concluded that this is the way to go. This will make this build identical to what Kimber7man got from GAP (photos above), and I suspect it will balance much better.. I'll call GAP tomorrow morning. I doubt they've done anything given that I just placed the order last week, but, if it costs me a little to make a change, so be it. Again, thanks for the help. Here are the new specs: - Manners EH2 with painted GAP camo by Larsen Tactical, Atlas bipod rail, and non-rotating flush cups on left side - Templar V1 Hunter action with "sheep port," controlled-round feed, and three-position safety - APA RTG bottom metal with Curtis 3-round flush fit magazine - Bartlein #3 fluted, 10" twist, finished at 21" - Trigger Tech Special tuned to 2.5 lbs. - Nitrided bolt and action - Atlas pic rail on the forearm for bipod use - Cerakote graphite black
Last edited by richardca99; 05/19/19.
Chris
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I think you made a good decision.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Good choice! I’m sure GAP will get you taken care of. A bartlein #3 will be much better in an EH2.
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I'll get photos up later today, but my new GAP rifle came in yesterday. To say I'm happy would be an understatement. This thing is EXACTLY what I wanted. I should have went custom years ago, though I probably needed to hunt with all those factory rifles in order to really understand what I wanted in a rifle. I'm blown away by the fit, finish, and quality. The #3 Bartlein is absolutely perfect--heavier than sporter but not quite Remington varmint thick. The 3 position safety and CRF bolt is phenomenal. Keep in mind that this build was meant for whitetail and hogs from elevated stands in southern Georgia. I went with .308 because I'm invested in that cartridge, and working up loads is trivial.
- Manners EH2 with painted (Cerakote) GAP camo by Larsen Tactical
- Templar V1 (Hunter) action with "sheep cut" for weight reduction
- Controlled-round feed bolt with three-position safety
- APA RTG bottom metal with Curtis 3-round flush fit magazine
- Bartlein #3 fluted, 10" twist, finished at 21"
- Trigger Tech Special with flat shoe tuned to 2.5 lbs.
- Pic rail on the forearm for bipod use
- Cerakote graphite black
Last edited by richardca99; 01/15/20.
Chris
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Sounds like a nice rifle that’s for sure...I been thinking about ordering one of those Gap rifles myself...
Public landowner...
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Richard that sounds awesome. Find some Varget and 155 scenars and you’ll be in tall cotton!
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Pics man!
Just kidding. I bet she’s gorgeous
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These photos suck, but you'll get the point. Once again, the build specs: - Manners EH2 with painted (Cerakote) GAP camo by Larsen Tactical - Templar V1 (Hunter) action with "sheep cut" for weight reduction - Bolt and raceways nitrided - Controlled-round feed with three-position safety - APA RTG bottom metal with Curtis 3-round flush fit magazine - Bartlein #3 fluted, 10" twist, finished at 21" - Trigger Tech Special with flat shoe tuned to 2.5 lbs. - Pic rail on the forearm for bipod use While I haven't shot it yet, here are my key takeaways from the experience SO FAR: 1) GAP's reputation appears to be well earned. The entire ordeal from start to finish was near flawless, and I really can't complain about anything. If you can spare the coin, I don't think you'll be sorry. 2) This build spec is exactly what I hoped it would be. I would do nothing different. Basically, it's the culmination of my 35 years in the whitetail woods and what I felt an ideal deer rifle would be for my style of hunting. 3) I obsessed about barrel contour, and I couldn't be happier with the Bartlein #3. To me, it's like a "light varmint." Fluted and finished to 21", it's the PERFECT combination of diameter. length, and material. 3) I should have done this custom thing a long time ago. However, I'm not sure I'd have known what I really wanted without all those factory-rifle experiences, so maybe I needed to get here slowly. This gun will get either a VX-6HD (2-12x42) or a NF ATACR 4-16x50F1. I have the Leupold ready to go, and I WANT it to work, as it's cheaper and lighter, but we'll see how things go. It's going to have to dial consistently, or she gone. I'm going to begin with the 155 Scenar-L, Alpha brass, and either Varget or H4895 (whichever shoots better). If this combo shoots, I'll give the Scenar a try in the deer woods this fall. The only thing I'm not 100% happy with is the bipod rail. The one that GAP installed appears to have a flat base. While the EH2 has a wide forearm, this rail is a poor match for the contour of the forearm, so I'll either bed it, or I'll change to a different rail. I'm sure it would be fine, but I just can't live with it only making contact near the center. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119113.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119111.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119115.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119112.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119116.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119117.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119118.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119109.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119119.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/119120.jpg)
Last edited by richardca99; 01/18/20.
Chris
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That’s a very nice looking rifle... I’m sure you’ll be very happy with it...
Public landowner...
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Very nice!
What did the final weight end up being?
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7.4 lbs with the Curtis magazine installed. I was hoping for no more than 7.5, so I'm happy. Weird thing is that it feels lighter than that.
8.9 lbs with the VX-6 HD and 30mm TPS aluminum rings. Four rounds and a nylon sling ought to put it just over 9 lbs. I’ll take it.
Last edited by richardca99; 01/19/20.
Chris
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Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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That’s a beauty MCH. Your rifle is obviously more of a long range rig with the longer, heavy contour barrel. What I was going for was something that would be close to a precision rifle but also be maneuverable and ”huntable” from a climber, tripod, or box blind. If the VX-6 HD behaves, I should be around nine pounds with a set of TRS alloy rings and four rounds.
Chris
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Very nice stick Allen!..Surprised your spindly little arms can bare the weight...Grins, Snarc 😂😎
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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That’s a beauty MCH. Your rifle is obviously more of a long range rig with the longer, heavy contour barrel. What I was going for was something that would be close to a precision rifle but also be maneuverable and ”huntable” from a climber, tripod, or box blind. If the VX-6 HD behaves, I should be around nine pounds with a set of TRS alloy rings and four rounds. Barrel is 23" and 24-1/8 to end of break. Yeah I wanted a long range rifle but still be able to hunt it. So it is a sh_t compromise, but I am enjoying it. I wouldn't do it again. I would either build a long range target rifle or a hunting rifle. My thought process was I don't compete in LR but do enjoy shooting LR, so if I could get a good enough LR rig that I can hunt with if desired it's a bonus.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Very nice stick Allen!..Surprised your spindly little arms can bare the weight...Grins, Snarc 😂😎 They can't! That is why I am going to have you be both my gun bearer and pack carrier!
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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You better be ready for Spring Bear.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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I will be happy if I can stay out of MCH's crosshairs........ nice rifle. I have read with great interest Scenars threads about re-barreling his GAP rifles and maintaining the accuracy and even retaining the old barrels zero. Speaks to the quality of the Bartlien barrels and GAP machining. I too have made the same mistake in a build combining long range format with hunting and ended up too heavy, they always seem to get left behind for a lighter rifle
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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I will be happy if I can stay out of MCH's crosshairs........ nice rifle. I have read with great interest Scenars threads about re-barreling his GAP rifles and maintaining the accuracy and even retaining the old barrels zero. Speaks to the quality of the Bartlien barrels and GAP machining. I too have made the same mistake in a build combining long range format with hunting and ended up too heavy, they always seem to get left behind for a lighter rifle Haha You are not even close to being in my crosshairs. It takes a lot more than a sensationalist drama queen to get in my crosshairs. I would actually like to meet you. I suspect you probably aren't a bad guy. As for heavy rifles there are places I don't mind packing the extra weight and there are places I would not think of it. I do like my light rifles, but I barely ever pry my c_nt off the couch so I live vicariously through the Fire!
Last edited by MontanaCreekHunter; 01/18/20.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
MCH, Hey, if we are going to be friends maybe you should start out by saying something nice? ... like hey nice rifle you have.... just sayin Another thing you always look angry in your couch pic's.... I like to laugh and have fun.. not sure we would get along? Signed, Drama Queen...... 
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354 |
I hope scenar comes back here. I would like to hear his take on the differences of the Primary and Special vs the Diamond besides the weight. I love reading his post.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,145 |
I went with the TT Special and flat shoe, as I just didn’t need the ability to tune below a light hunting-weight pull.
Chris
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,531
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,531 |
I hope scenar comes back here. I would like to hear his take on the differences of the Primary and Special vs the Diamond besides the weight. I love reading his post. All 3 use the same sear engagement technology, but there are a few more “working” parts in the Diamonds and believe they are housed differently internally. All have an external weight adjustment. Primary and Secondary are 1ozs per click of the adjustment screw, while the Diamond is a variable adjustment. Don’t recall the numbers, but as you go up in pull weight on the Diamonds, the value of the adjustment click increases as well.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354 |
I hope scenar comes back here. I would like to hear his take on the differences of the Primary and Special vs the Diamond besides the weight. I love reading his post. All 3 use the same sear engagement technology, but there are a few more “working” parts in the Diamonds and believe they are housed differently internally. All have an external weight adjustment. Primary and Secondary are 1ozs per click of the adjustment screw, while the Diamond is a variable adjustment. Don’t recall the numbers, but as you go up in pull weight on the Diamonds, the value of the adjustment click increases as well. Thanks Josh!
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
Hey Chris, did you kill anything with that rifle yet?? Inquiring minds want to know!
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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