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#13823978 - 05/16/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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Orion2000 Offline
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Central KY
Originally Posted by ChanceD
Which bullet diameter carries the best terminal ballistics for North American Venison and Pork?
.30
.284
.277
.264
Other....
Not asking so much about chamberings, just bullet diameters.
In my experience the .284 if pushed fast enough kills stuff like a lightening bolt. It’s funny, I don’t even own a .284 in any chambering currently. What do you guys think?

As I am thinning the herd, front runners are:

.264
.277
.308

Pick a Nosler partition in any of the three bore diameters, and I would be good to go for what I hunt.


"A lie doesn't become truth; wrong doesn't become right; evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by the majority." - Rick Warren
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#13826184 - 05/16/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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nifty-two-fifty Offline
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You would have thought the US military would have put a lot of thought and study into choosing .30 caliber for our small-bore, smokeless powder cartridges, the 30-40 Krag, and the 30-06.

According to Franklin Mallory in his book, THE KRAG RIFLE STORY, the choice was arbitrary, merely copying what most European counties were doing, using from 7.5 to 8mm diameters for their military cartridges at the time.

The Spanish-American War proved the worth of the 7mm bullets (.284") in the 7x57 Mauser rifles, yet, despite serious consideration, the US chose to stick with the .30 caliber when it developed the rimless 30-03/30-06. That American attitude of "bigger must be better," evidently won out.

So, my answer to the OP's question as to the best bullet diameter bullet for the 30-06 case? I would be inclined to choose the .284 bullet, which just happens to duplicate one of the best American cartridges ever produced: the 280 Remington.


Nifty-250

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#13826811 - 05/17/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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shaman Online content
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As always, Mister Nifty, please do not confuse me with someone who knows squat. I'm just asking questions.

Quote

According to Franklin Mallory in his book, THE KRAG RIFLE STORY, the choice was arbitrary, merely copying what most European counties were doing, using from 7.5 to 8mm diameters for their military cartridges at the time.

The Spanish-American War proved the worth of the 7mm bullets (.284") in the 7x57 Mauser rifles, yet, despite serious consideration, the US chose to stick with the .30 caliber when it developed the rimless 30-03/30-06. That American attitude of "bigger must be better," evidently won out.


Weren't all the world powers pretty much being arbitrary? You've got this period of the 1890s to 1910's, where everyone pretty much settled on their caliber of choice for the next 60 years and some folks picked 6mm, some 6.5, some 7, some 8.

I happen to be somewhat of a 30-something snob. I know it. I pretty much wallow in it. I can also tell you why, and very of it has anything to do with rational thought. I can see guys all over the world with powder burns on their lab coats coming up with similar conclusions in pretty much the same way.

I also wonder here about the Mauser Brothers. I'm scratching my head. On the one hand you've got them developing the basic idea for the ultimate bolt-action military and hunting arm ever conceived. Somebody has been shooting a Mauser design at their enemy since just after our Civil War. It became the standard and has stayed the standard. On the other hand, the caliber and chambering remained pretty much a whimsical proposition. Mauser seems to have never tried to say, "Look here, guys. If you really want our rifles to perform well, here's this suggestion on bore diameter." The Germans pick 8mm. The Spanish 7mm, Swedes and Boors pick 6.5. We get all hot and sweaty on 7.62mm. You'd think -- if it were possible-- that someone would have done the research back then to figure out what the best was and standarized on it.

My guess is that there really isn't a possibility. For one thing, if you were to get the great minds of the late 19th century in a room to discuss the matter, they'd sound like the Barber Shop on Saturday morning. Nothing would get done. For another thing, you can make an argument for any caliber in the 6-8mm range, and you can make it work-- at least to take down a human-sized target out to as far as you can see with the naked eye. It ain't just about caliber. It's also about who has what kind of powder, what shape are the bullets you're testing, and the general size and capacities of the cannon-fodder you pick to test the weapon in field trials. We've been basically testing this question since the 1890's and we still cannot come to any meaningful conclusions. I suspect we never will.

Then again, there is .29. Mister Mule Deer might have something there.


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#13829600 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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Quak Offline
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7.7 with a Nosler

#13829667 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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The largest bullet diameter you can buy or make
With the longest length possible
With the largest weight possible
With the fastest speed possible
With the most aerodynamic shape for cross-continental shots
With a construction that does the most internal damage and can penetrate the entire length of the animal on a quartering shot

And a flatbed trailer to haul the gun that will shoot the bloody thing.


“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.”
--- Will Rogers
Alpha

#13829796 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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szihn Online content
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This will be resolved after all people agree what is the best color, what food tastes the best, and who is the best looking woman.

#13830132 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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comerade Offline
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South eastern BC.
If this discussion was ever definitive, there would be no starter conversation in hunting camp. No caliberational profiling etc .
How dull.


Lead,follow or get out of the wa
#13830187 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: 300_savage]  
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Ward Offline
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In the middle of Washington st...
Originally Posted by 300_savage
I have always preferred a bullet of the diameter that matched the bore of the rifle I am shooting at the game.


I waded through a lot of posts to find this gem. Bullet matching the bore diameter eliminates a lot of problems. Other than that, I couldn't care less what diameter a bullet is as long as the trajectory is reasonable for ranges I'll likely shoot and the combination of mass, velocity and construction mean the bullet will penetrate adequately.

#13830209 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: ChanceD]  
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nifty-two-fifty Offline
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Far Northstate Calif
Shaman,

I found some more information regarding the adoption of the .30 caliber bullet by the US Military.

In 1888, Lt. Colonel Eduard Rubin, Director of the Thuns Munitions Factory in Switzerland, submitted his magazine rifle and ammunition to the Springfield Armory for testing for possible adoption by the US Military. His cartridge was 7.5mm (.30 cal.). He resubmitted his rifle and ammunition in the official 1892 Trials at the Springfield Armory, where it lost out to the Krag rifle.

In developing the new ammunition for his designs, Rubin was faced with producing jacketed lead bullets to accommodate the higher velocities. Jackets made from iron, steel, copper and various alloys were tested. He worked with 6.5mm (his initial preference) and 7.5mm bullets. He found it was considerably easier to get consistent quality bullets produced in the larger diameter of 7.5mm. Otherwise 6.5mm might have won out. An alloy of copper and zinc, called Tomac, was the best and most cost effective jacket material he found.

I suspect that the Springfield Armory officials were impressed enough with the work of Lt. Col. Rubin, starting 4 years earlier with his presentation in 1888, that they agreed with his conclusion that .30 caliber was a good, practical bore diameter. If 6.5mm had worked out well enough for Rubin, we likely would have wound up with the 264-06, or 26-06, in our Springfield rifles. The Swiss have long had a reputation for technology and precision. For those rifle Loonys that consider .30 caliber to be the "best" rifle caliber, I suggest that they can probably thank the Swiss and Mr. Rubin.


Nifty-250

"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else".
Yogi Berra
#13830221 - 05/18/19 Re: Best bullet diameter [Re: doubletap]  
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Captain Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by doubletap
Originally Posted by 300_savage
I have always preferred a bullet of the diameter that matched the bore of the rifle I am shooting at the game.

Best reply so far.


Change to groove diameter instead.


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Bravo

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