Leupold had a bit of a change in personnel in recent years, partly because a good number of people retired (as John mentioned) and partly because quite a few experienced people went to work for Sig, who opened their shop a few miles down the road. Now that Crimson Trace is in the scope making business as well, I would not be surprised if they pilfered some people from Leupols and/or Sig.
From a consumer standpoint, it is a good thing to have three companies like this all next to each other. They feed off of the same pool of employees and, having several companies in the same area encourages people from other parts of the country to move to the area since there is a good job market.
Greater Portland area has quite a lot of optics and electro-optics companies within a 100 miles from each other: Leupold, Sig, Crimson Trace, FLIR, Collins Aerospace plus all the EO shops in Hood River. There are a few smaller outfits as well, like Kruger and some other OEM shops and a medical imaging company or two.
This kind of competition is not great for Leupold in the short term, but is probably healthy in the long term (general disclaimer: I know some of these people because of my dayjob and some because of my hobbies. The two often overlap).
ILya
Can't think of much other reason to move to Portland.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
I strongly suspect the design of the erector and adjustment system is very similar in most scopes from most manufacturers. Failures in any brand are most likely caused by simple assembly errors brought about by inexperienced, poorly trained, underpaid workers and management required rushed assembly and/or faulty, out of spec parts. As someone who has worked for years building guns and obtaining parts from many sources I can tell you it doesn't much matter where they're made, you'll get alot of absolute junk that is out of spec dimensionally and/or improperly heat treated from everywhere. Nobody gives a fugg about quality these days, only making as much money as possible as quick as they can.
Reminds me of the camshafts they put in some Chevy engines back in the 90s IIRC. Not heat treated so they would wipe, then when the dealers fixed them, they used the same defective cam. By the time the new one went South, the vehicles were often out of warranty. The difference with Leupold is they'll keep fixing or replacing their stuff forever, small comfort to anyone that misses an opportunity due to a failure, I'd guess.
I have this notion there's a big crate of defective bias springs (or whatever) in the Leupold warehouse that they're trying to get through before their reputation goes totally to Hell. No doubt it's more complicated than that, but the principle is the same.
That was a common problem with GM 350`s.I had a GM Van that the lobes went flat at 50,000 miles.GM had a hidden warranty on this problem.They would fix it if you brought it to their attention.They had no recall on it.They paid to have my upper engine rebuilt and I drove it for another 250,000 miles so obviously the replacement cams were all right.
Last edited by Huntz; 05/19/19.
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
Yup. The PNW seems like a lovely area, but I've already abandoned one place where Liberal cities have screwed up the entire state. The bad part is that eventually things often get too screwed up even for the Libs, who then move on to another place they can start futzing up.
I strongly suspect the design of the erector and adjustment system is very similar in most scopes from most manufacturers. Failures in any brand are most likely caused by simple assembly errors brought about by inexperienced, poorly trained, underpaid workers and management required rushed assembly and/or faulty, out of spec parts. As someone who has worked for years building guns and obtaining parts from many sources I can tell you it doesn't much matter where they're made, you'll get alot of absolute junk that is out of spec dimensionally and/or improperly heat treated from everywhere. Nobody gives a fugg about quality these days, only making as much money as possible as quick as they can.
Reminds me of the camshafts they put in some Chevy engines back in the 90s IIRC. Not heat treated so they would wipe, then when the dealers fixed them, they used the same defective cam. By the time the new one went South, the vehicles were often out of warranty. The difference with Leupold is they'll keep fixing or replacing their stuff forever, small comfort to anyone that misses an opportunity due to a failure, I'd guess.
I have this notion there's a big crate of defective bias springs (or whatever) in the Leupold warehouse that they're trying to get through before their reputation goes totally to Hell. No doubt it's more complicated than that, but the principle is the same.
That was a common problem with GM 350`s.I had a GM Van that the lobes when flat at 50,000 miles.GM had a hidden warranty on this problem.They would fix it if you brought it to there attention.They had no recall on it.They paid to have my upper engine rebuilt and I drove it for another 250,000 miles so obviously the replacement cams were all right.
No doubt they ran out of the crappy ones eventually. A conscientious company would have pulled all the suspect ones from stock and checked them, or just dumped them. My 97 Exploder had a similar valve train fault, but the new "long block" they installed kept on trucking for about 200,000 more.
Leupold had a bit of a change in personnel in recent years, partly because a good number of people retired (as John mentioned) and partly because quite a few experienced people went to work for Sig, who opened their shop a few miles down the road. Now that Crimson Trace is in the scope making business as well, I would not be surprised if they pilfered some people from Leupols and/or Sig.
From a consumer standpoint, it is a good thing to have three companies like this all next to each other. They feed off of the same pool of employees and, having several companies in the same area encourages people from other parts of the country to move to the area since there is a good job market.
Greater Portland area has quite a lot of optics and electro-optics companies within a 100 miles from each other: Leupold, Sig, Crimson Trace, FLIR, Collins Aerospace plus all the EO shops in Hood River. There are a few smaller outfits as well, like Kruger and some other OEM shops and a medical imaging company or two.
This kind of competition is not great for Leupold in the short term, but is probably healthy in the long term (general disclaimer: I know some of these people because of my dayjob and some because of my hobbies. The two often overlap).
ILya
Can't think of much other reason to move to Portland.
Well, keep in mind Leupold and most of the companies referenced in this thread aren't actually IN Portland. They are outside Portland in the suburbs, which are a far cry from that liberal sh!fthole Portland has turned into.... I live about 15 miles west of Portland and like it here just fine but I avoid going "downtown" Portland any more than my life depends on.... if it weren't for the incredible job opportunities and friends who live here, we would have moved to Central Oregon quite some time ago...
Bob
Last edited by Sheister; 05/19/19.
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
I am not thrilled with Leupy's service department. I offered to pay, in writing, to have an M-8 rear bell removed, a wierd european claw style ring slid on the main tube and the scope returned to me, ALSO offering to sign a waiver for future, if any, warranty claims. A big fat NO. A year later, I asked to send in a 6.5x20, with a Premier 35x reticle booster, and have it removed to a stock 6.5x20, at my expense, again offering to waive future warranty claims. Didn't even bother to reply. To hell with Leupy.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
I agree that Leupold not only has a problem with their erectors but has had for many years, it seems that replacing erectors is their standard protocol when a scope is shipped in for repair. I have sent a few in over the years and in every case the repair noted was "replaced erector assy".
The most used scope in Smallbore and Highpower Silhouette is the Leupold 6.5-20x40, it is a great combination of power, lightweight, and good eye relief, but most of us who are serious about competing keep a spare one on hand just in case of tracking issues. If one is going to experience erector issues this is the discipline that brings them out, the scopes are constantly being adjusted up / down and windage. One of the best pieces of advice I got was from a Leupold tech who told me to run the knobs from stop to stop a few times to redistribute the lube on the threads, I took his advice and tracking became pretty much a non-issue after that.
Regardless of how good their warranty and turn-around time is it comes down to the fact that they have an issue, they are aware of it and are not doing anything about it. This has been an issue for well over 30 years and they still have not addressed it. Why ? - Because of brand loyalty, they are still looked at as the Gold Standard of scopes by most shooters. Most shooters adjust the scope on their hunting rifle and don't touch it again unless something major occurs, and most shooters never notice if their group opens up an inch or so - to them it was just a "flyer".
Fixing the issue cannot be that difficult - there are a lot of lower-dollar scopes that track just fine. I bought a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire scope for my 17 HMR, I paid $85 for it - it tracks perfectly. It's not rocket science Leupold - get your heads out of your butt.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
At one point I had several dozen leupolds from vx2 to mark4. I’ve changed that to everything that gets lots of use wearing NF and the lesser fun guns getting SS from Swfa. Only very few leupolds have survived in my collection.
I was issued a Mark 4 years ago that failed on me. Jumping down a 4 foot obstacle with then rife slung across my back when I got to my firing point I found the erector at a 45 degree angle. That was in 1995. Left a bad impression.
Last edited by Armednfree; 05/19/19.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
15 years ago every rifle I owned wore a Leupold. Now I do not own a Leupold. Leupold is betting the farm on their market not knowing the difference, or accepting the risk, until it happens to them.
Is everyone ignoring the fact that the VX6HD and MK5 have new erectors that have showed to track very well. No doubt they had a problem that they were slow to fix. They probably thought dialing was a fad that would pass and they could weather the storm. I will continue to run Leupold on most of my rifles from FX-2s to the VX-6HD. The only one I use for dialing is the 6HD. I stay away from NF for the same reasons I stay away from yeti. Both great products but not for me. If I want a heavy tough as nails scope I use the SS 5-20HD. I’ll beat on it in ways that would scare me with the 6HD
Is everyone ignoring the fact that the VX6HD and MK5 have new erectors that have showed to track very well. No doubt they had a problem that they were slow to fix. They probably thought dialing was a fad that would pass and they could weather the storm. I will continue to run Leupold on most of my rifles from FX-2s to the VX-6HD. The only one I use for dialing is the 6HD. I stay away from NF for the same reasons I stay away from yeti. Both great products but not for me. If I want a heavy tough as nails scope I use the SS 5-20HD. I’ll beat on it in ways that would scare me with the 6HD
No, they don’t. They have the same issues all Leupold’s have. There seems to be this rumor that Leopold “fixed” the erector systems with those scopes. They haven’t. About half that I’ve shot more than a thousand rounds have had to go back for service.
Is everyone ignoring the fact that the VX6HD and MK5 have new erectors that have showed to track very well. No doubt they had a problem that they were slow to fix. They probably thought dialing was a fad that would pass and they could weather the storm. I will continue to run Leupold on most of my rifles from FX-2s to the VX-6HD. The only one I use for dialing is the 6HD. I stay away from NF for the same reasons I stay away from yeti. Both great products but not for me. If I want a heavy tough as nails scope I use the SS 5-20HD. I’ll beat on it in ways that would scare me with the 6HD
WHO SHOWED THEM TRACKING WELL? who tested them and how? staying away from nightforce because they are the YETI of riflescopes. holy crap that is funny right there.
You realize that you argue every side of a conversation as long as you can argue. Why don’t you show where it’s proven otherwise about the new erector system instead of arguing with me for the sake of argument.
As far as NF and Yeti they are both great products. Both overpriced for name sake. If I’m paying NF prices I’m buying a Kahles. There’s several companies that make equal or better coolers than Yeti and are cheaper. Pretty straightforward I would think.
Is everyone ignoring the fact that the VX6HD and MK5 have new erectors that have showed to track very well. No doubt they had a problem that they were slow to fix. They probably thought dialing was a fad that would pass and they could weather the storm. I will continue to run Leupold on most of my rifles from FX-2s to the VX-6HD. The only one I use for dialing is the 6HD. I stay away from NF for the same reasons I stay away from yeti. Both great products but not for me. If I want a heavy tough as nails scope I use the SS 5-20HD. I’ll beat on it in ways that would scare me with the 6HD
No, they don’t. They have the same issues all Leupold’s have. There seems to be this rumor that Leopold “fixed” the erector systems with those scopes. They haven’t. About half that I’ve shot more than a thousand rounds have had to go back for service.
Now that’s information. Thank you. It’s amazing what can be conveyed without being an idiot.
My sample of 1 6HD has tracked reliably over hundreds of rounds, not thousands. Guess I got lucky as have others I am aware of.
Good points and I was referring to the ATACR. I know little about the SHV so no comment, the NXS glass is inferior to SS 5-20HD, is SFP, and is more expensive. That takes the NXS out for me.
You realize that you argue every side of a conversation as long as you can argue. Why don’t you show where it’s proven otherwise about the new erector system instead of arguing with me for the sake of argument.
As far as NF and Yeti they are both great products. Both overpriced for name sake. If I’m paying NF prices I’m buying a Kahles. There’s several companies that make equal or better coolers than Yeti and are cheaper. Pretty straightforward I would think.
oh so now its kahles who is actually worthy of the price? dude PLEASE dear god know what you are talking about. watch these videos
and another
both videos show errors in mechanical operation of the scopes. One must ask how did they leave the factory that way? seriously how did they? because no one tested them!!! So now nightforce is YETI umm ok I will take a scope that is actually tested and looked at by a real person with their sticker seal of approval on them. YES is nightforce too expansive? probably but no other company will step up and actually test their scopes in this manner and show they are rock solid reliable.
