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Joined: May 2017
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Campfire Member
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After my first solo trip to the mountains I open carried. Amazing how friendly and polite people get when you have a pistola handy.
Remember why, specifically, the Bill of Rights was written...remember its purpose.
It was written to limit the power of government over the individual
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,238
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,238 |
I had an encounter with a couple jackazzes around here a couple years back. Up in the Avalanche Gulch for those familiar with the area.
Passed a couple dudes in a parked pickup at the mouth of the gulch as we drove in. We went in a mile or two then went hiking up the road a few miles. On the way back out, these two had stopped their truck on a culvert where the creek flowed under the road. One of each of them was on either side of the truck. It was a choke point.
I summed up the situation from about 100 yards out. I could tell by their body language that something wasn't cool.
That day I didn't have the typical Glock on my strong side. I appeared unarmed from the front, from a distance. But I wasn't unarmed. I had an AR carbine slung on one shoulder, riding along my back. They couldn't see it.
When we got to about 50 yards, they were just watching us, with tense body language. I slipped the AR carbine off my shoulder and held it in my hand just ahead of the receiver letting it swing naturally as we continued toward them.
When they saw the hardware, and my eyes on them, their demeanor changed instantly. They got in the truck, started it up and slowly came our direction looking sheepish, and they continued up the road, while we continued down.
I gave them eye contact and a little head nod as we passed.
I've had a couple of similar incidents. One of them was at a remote gas station in southern Arizona... I recognized a robbery/kidnapping/murder in progress with myself and my ex-wife as the intended prey. Instead of displaying my firearm, though, I simply pulled the spare Glock 23 magazine from my pocket and held it up as though checking to see if it was fully loaded. Funny thing, the 3 guys advancing on me stopped in their tracks, paused, and without a word turned around and got back into their truck and drove away. I guess they figured that if a guy has a Glock magazine on him, he probably has a Glock pistol on him, too. This sort of thing happens MILLIONS of times annually in America. It's got a name in the criminology literature: a DUG (Defensive Use of a Gun). Armed citizens rarely fire upon would-be perpetrators of crimes, because they can avert the criminal activity simply by showing themselves to be armed. Human predators are not much different than the animal varieties. They target the lambs, and avoid the lions. Have diffused similar a couple times Gents, as innocent as grabbing a couple spare mags from a back pocket to get to a tin of snuff.  you can feel their wheels start to spin.
Trump Won!
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,590
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,590 |
I wonder what the victim would have given for an airweight .22 revolver as machete guy showed his intent?
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2018
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Back in the 80s I went to a boat ramp ... I was driving truck w/ boat trailer, dad was bringing the boat to meet me. Only rig there so I parked on the ramp, then walked up the shore throwing rocks 'n' stuff. A truck pulled up and parked. No trailer so I didn't go back to move out of the way. There's a pile of heaped cobbles ... basketball sized rocks ... in the center of the parking lot making it a sort of circle drive. I was a third of the way around, them a little closer to our truck than I was. 3 guys got out. They came toward that "island" of rock ... one went on each side (thus one of them clearly cut me off from our truck) and one right over the top. I wasn't looking right at them, just keeping an eye out. When they got to about 15 yards, I reached down and pulled the S&W .357 which was shoved cross-draw in my belt out, thumbed the hammer back, and started as if I was drawing a bead on a sea gull. They swapped ends and went back to their truck. That 8-3/4" barrel looks mean. (It is.) Before I could walk back to the truck, dad motored down with the boat. As he was lining up on the trailer they headed for him. He jumped over the side onto the ramp with the anchor rope in his hands and his S&W K frame swung out into view. They turned around and went back toward their truck. As they passed about 30 feet away from me I heard one of them say "that mother f**ker has a gun. all these mother f**kers have guns. What are we going to do?" They got in the truck, sat there a couple minutes and I kept an eye on them as we tied our boat down to the trailer, then they drove away.
I always wondered what would have happened to me minus that gun, or to dad if I hadn't been there and he hadn't been armed himself. Beating? Robbery? Murder?
Made a believer out of me.
Tom Great incident report after so many years.
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Pronoun: Yes, SIR !
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,338
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,338 |
[quote=DocRocket]...I simply pulled the spare Glock 23 magazine from my pocket and held it up as though checking to see if it was fully loaded. Funny thing, the 3 guys advancing on me stopped in their tracks, paused, and without a word turned around and got back into their truck and drove away.
I guess they figured that if a guy has a Glock magazine on him, he probably has a Glock pistol on him, too.
FREE ME - " ... Just because you left the pavement, doesn't mean you left the dirtbags behind. '" Brother, you ain't kidding. Old dirt roads and trails, remote campsites, etc., are targets of opportunity for the scum out there who think what you have, belongs to them.  I'm old fashioned so I do not have a newfangled Glock. I figure if push comes to shove, I'll just have to call on my old and dear friends, Col. Colt and his Nine Little Sisters for assistance. Something about facing a Colt's Lightweight Commander .45 ACP that can make a cretin think seriously about taking up a different profession. At least in my experience.  L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,731
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,731 |
LW, those Commanders can be comforting and handy. I know I wouldn't want you shooting at me. I hope you are doing well.
NRA LIFE MEMBER
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS
ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS!
"Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself."
-Mark Twain
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,143
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,143 |
I love those old 70 Series LW Colt Commanders. Carried one for years.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2018
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I’m not a big “hiker” per se, but I do a fair amount of woodswalking as I hunt upland bird and whitetail. So I put my time in scouting etc. Always strap a big N frame 44 mag open when I do. Never had to use it or even pull it in defense against anything on four legs nor two. However, I have over the years found all kinds of ‘sign’ from the 2 legged variety of predators in places I least expected. More so than bear sign. Up to and including a pretty extensive cannabis farming operation. That’s got my pulse up. At least once, I have felt eyes on me. If you’ve ever had that sinking, certain, feeling, you know what i’m Talking about. It’s unmistakable. In that situation, i’m Quite sure the obviousness of that honking big revolver on my hip kept the situation to eyes-only. That’s why I like it visible, in the thick stuff. I could care less about any eyebrows it might raise among the more innocent types I occasionally encounter. I mean them no harm, and none comes from it. In Town, I believe in CC. But in Country, It’s OC.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
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^^^^^^^
That is a thoughtful post.
Over the years, the discussion of concealed vs. open carry has been pretty well laid out by many. But I don't know that there are many statistics, nor do i know if there could be. After all, it is hard to prove that open carry changed the dynamic of a situation either for the better or the worse. Sometimes the facts are clear, but often not. The statistics/facts of concealed carry are likely even muddier waters.
I do find it interesting that you prefer one over the other based on where you are. It doesn't seem to me that should make a difference, at least not with respect to the usual arguments.
If everyone else would do so, I believe I'd be happy to open carry. But only if there were a lot of people open carrying. hell, I'd just as soon go about my day with a lightweight AR slung over my shoulder, mag full, chamber empty. Can you imagine how little trouble there would be if that were common practice? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
Clinging to guns & religion since 1959
Keyboards make people braver than alcohol
Election Integrity is more important than Election Convenience
Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness"
More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You'd get tired of carrying an AR all day, every day. You say you wouldn't, but you would.
OC is more natural in the wild than in the city.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,016
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,016 |
What's crazy to me is that I dare say, most, hikers are so against guns that they would almost rather be raped or chopped into pieces than carry a firearm for protection.
Foolish in the extreme. Agreed, it's crazy, that said, I'm no Yule Gibbons corn nut eating hiker, but damn, I pack more for two legged vermin than four leggers. I can imagine what a wild eyed machete toting nut case would look like after threatening you. Hmmm... DF
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
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You'd get tired of carrying an AR all day, every day. You say you wouldn't, but you would.
OC is more natural in the wild than in the city. ^^^^^^^ I think I could learn to live with it. That said, I would purpose build a light one. I agree OC in the wild is more common and draws less attention than OC in the city. But do the arguments change with regards to the advantages/disadvantages of each type of carry? If you choose to carry concealed so that "city scum" don't know you are armed, why is it different for "trail scum" to see you are armed?
Clinging to guns & religion since 1959
Keyboards make people braver than alcohol
Election Integrity is more important than Election Convenience
Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness"
More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,288
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I agree the disparity seems illogical - shouldn’t matter one way or the other CC/OC Town/Country. Maybe it’s just the lower frequency of human interaction in the sticks that makes it seem more ‘appropriate’ or less likely to draw UNWANTED attention and reactions. Maybe it’s because in the sticks I frequent, it’s more common to observe people OC’ing. Maybe in town, people use people as camouflage, and it’s easier for a human predator to close distance. And in the woods, they gotta hide behind rocks and trees and make assessments from further away. And I don’t have to let them close distance. I dunno. Maybe it makes no sense at all and that’s OK. It’s just how I roll and so far so good. But to each their own.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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^^^^^^^
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree, to each their own. I was just wondering if I was missing some key point. I often OC when on private land. Not sure how I would roll in a rural but public environment.
What's really interesting is how to roll in a public hunting environment. There, a guy walking up to me with a long gun might not raise much suspicion. But should he suddenly point it at me and disarm me, I'd really like my handgun to be concealed.
Clinging to guns & religion since 1959
Keyboards make people braver than alcohol
Election Integrity is more important than Election Convenience
Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness"
More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,244
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,244 |
You'd get tired of carrying an AR all day, every day. You say you wouldn't, but you would.
OC is more natural in the wild than in the city. ^^^^^^^ I think I could learn to live with it. There must not be much going on in your life.
I agree OC in the wild is more common and draws less attention than OC in the city. But do the arguments change with regards to the advantages/disadvantages of each type of carry? If you choose to carry concealed so that "city scum" don't know you are armed, why is it different for "trail scum" to see you are armed?
the arguments change. I take it you don't get out much? #1 reason against OC in cities where it's legal - the gun grab. You in the habit of letting people get that close to you without knowing it in the hills? If not, then OC makes more sense. If one is most accustomed to a climate controlled environment, it might be a little hard to think of other differences...
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Jun 2018
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^^^^^^^
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree, to each their own. I was just wondering if I was missing some key point. I often OC when on private land. Not sure how I would roll in a rural but public environment.
What's really interesting is how to roll in a public hunting environment. There, a guy walking up to me with a long gun might not raise much suspicion. But should he suddenly point it at me and disarm me, I'd really like my handgun to be concealed. Very valid point. And I do walk and hunt through rural but public property. If someone else is carrying a long gun, it’s because the season is open and I’m carrying one too. Otherwise, it might be a cause for alarm. Either way, I approach any visibly armed human in the woods with a prudent measure of caution. Actually, I generally try to give them a wide berth. Hunter’s courtesy. Kinda goes back to that “distance closing” point. Now if someone wants to stalk and shoot me like a game animal, they’re gonna do so. You can’t hide from the possibility of any eventuality. I do see your point about having a ‘surprise’ in store, with a concealed weapon, if held at gunpoint by someone else. But i’m Kind of accepting the fact that could happen, even though I find it highly unlikely it would. In pubic rural land off of hunting season. If i’m Visibly OC’ing a sidearm, i’m Counting on it as a deterrent to dangerous but non-firearm carrying people. Again, if they draw on me and hold me at gun point, well I guess i’m too far up the river to get out.
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Joined: Jun 2018
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More on topic with the original post, and although I do not know the conditions or circumstances leading up to the machete attack on the hikers, I think some nut bag with a machete, or knife, or axe or whatever other than a firearm, is going to be somewhat deterred in choosing me as a victim to attack, if he can see I am visibly armed. From whatever distance or cover he’s observing me. And if I was to be bumrushed by some blade wielding freak, in the forest, I would hope I could draw and blast him first. Unencumbered by concealments, i would think it all the easier to do so.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
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Mr. Harry, good discussion. Thanks.
FreeMe, interesting points. But you assume a lot, incorrectly, and you are condescending as hell. Not to say I think that is news to you or that your care. Or perhaps you think you are witty. Maybe you are . . . to someone.
Clinging to guns & religion since 1959
Keyboards make people braver than alcohol
Election Integrity is more important than Election Convenience
Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness"
More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,161
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,161 |
Open carry in the city allows too many opportunities for someone to grab your gun. I remember a guy sitting at a table behind me in a restaurant, his pistol was available for anyone to grab as they walked between our tables.
Someone gets that close to us out in the woods, we tend to get our guard up.
Most people won't carry an extra pistol mag all day, everyday much less an AR.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,244
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
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Mr. Harry, good discussion. Thanks.
FreeMe, interesting points. But you assume a lot, incorrectly, and you are condescending as hell. Not to say I think that is news to you or that your care. Or perhaps you think you are witty. Maybe you are . . . to someone. Yeah, I'll own that. It was deliberately condescending. Your flippant remarks invited it. As if people don't have valid reasons for carrying differently in different settings. And yeah - I'm still going to assume you haven't tried slinging that AR as you go about daily business, even in private.....or else that business is pretty limited.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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