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I was excited about the possibility of just using potassium or sodium nitrate alone. The melting point is just fine. But the boiling point is below the optimum working temperature, so I think we are stuck with using the 60/40 mixture.
No, it isn't. Have you actually done any research on this, or thought about the fact that other people are actually using those salts by themselves successfully? If someone is using it and it works, why would you claim that it doesn't?
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I did take the time to research the issue before I spoke, and found a couple of credible sources that put the boiling/decomposition point of potassium nitrate at 400C/752F. Here's one of the links: PubChem, US NIHThis seems to conflict with the info you posted, and at the moment, I have no way to resolve which, if either, is correct. I suppose that one of us could run a sample up to temperature and see what happens. Annealing is linear with time, but cubic with temperature. If you want a quick anneal so that the mouth of the case can be done before too much heat reaches the case head, then 800F is a good choice. That is where I run my bath. You can anneal below that temperature, but it takes much longer.
Last edited by denton; 03/05/19.
Be not weary in well doing.
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I know 2 people that have this set up. Very consistent, fast and no clean up, but for $1500 to get going I will stick with the salt bath. just as consistent but you do have cleaning and drying time, well worth 1/10 the cost
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This seems to conflict with the info you posted, and at the moment, I have no way to resolve which, if either, is correct. I suppose that one of us could run a sample up to temperature and see what happens.
What part of "I use it and it works" escaped you? I don't know why your link lists the temp it does, but something's not right there. Some research on salt bath annealing or salt bath heat treatment will show you otherwise as well. It doesn't boil at 752F, not even close. I use it at 900F for both annealing brass and heat treating stainless steel (that is 900 per a K type TC and PID temp controller, not some random thermometer). The chart I posted and others I found all said 930 F as the maximum working temp for potassium nitrate; I haven't found any reason to doubt that, and the boiling temp may be even higher. As to the other one - sodium nitrate's listed max working temp is only 2 degrees lower than the 60/40 mix you're saying we have to use. Both are way higher than needed for annealing. Edit - both of these salts do have a tendency to fizz a little bit and create bubbles on the surface as they melt from ground particles - that can happen around 750 F and maybe some researchers are mistaking that for the boiling point. Once it settles down though, both of these can be used up to at least 900 F in my experience, as I said above.
Last edited by Yondering; 03/06/19.
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Once it settles down though, both of these can be used up to at least 900 F in my experience, as I said above. I believe you are correct. I just ran a sample of it up to 930F, with no problems. So apparently potassium nitrate can be used alone for annealing at 800F. Data trumps whatever we find on the internet, and we both agree. Most sources recommend temperatures in the low 700s for annealing, and I didn't realize you were working at higher temperature like I do. Edited to add: There is one problem with pure potassium nitrate. When it cools, it expands. My sample is now solid again, and firmly jammed in the bottom of my heating cup. The 60/40 mixture contracts when it cools. It just cleanly falls out as a solid disk.
Last edited by denton; 03/06/19.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Candle Annealer here - every 5 reloads.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Candle Annealer here - every 5 reloads. Let me guess you roll the case in you fingers 😜 for how long 😱
Last edited by ldholton; 03/06/19.
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I know 2 people that have this set up. Very consistent, fast and no clean up, but for $1500 to get going I will stick with the salt bath. just as consistent but you do have cleaning and drying time, well worth 1/10 the cost I feel the cost of quality tools are worth the expense. $1500 seems eccentric. In this case, buy once cry once. Main objective was to dismiss the cumulative heat from the torches.
Throttle fixes everything. If it doesn't fix the problem, it’ll end the suspense.
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To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.-Richard Henry Lee
Endowment Member NRA, Life Member SAF-GOA, Life-Board Member, West TN Director TFA
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Whole nuther level there - NICE !!
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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This guy has shown out of stock for over a year now. He does not respond to inquiries. He is basically disinterested. I was at his house a couple of months ago to pick up more salt and another kit for a friend. He has lots of stock and ships all over the world. He is definitely interested in your business.
I thought growing old would take longer.
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This guy has shown out of stock for over a year now. He does not respond to inquiries. He is basically disinterested. I was at his house a couple of months ago to pick up more salt and another kit for a friend. He has lots of stock and ships all over the world. He is definitely interested in your business. I believe you. But still, he has never answered any of my many inquiries.
Throttle fixes everything. If it doesn't fix the problem, it’ll end the suspense.
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PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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I recently switched from torch to salt bath annealing. I’m pleased with it because it’s easier and I can tell the annealed brass is softer to work with.
I did not rely on the gentleman from canada although I am sure he sells nice stuff. I purchased a Lee melter, a nice thermocouple thermometer with stainless steel probe, and it wasn’t hard to make my own rack to fit in my melter. I prefer using a melter rack to hold my brass because it gives me a bit of safety from splashing salts. And of course I used Spectracide Stump Remover powder for potassium nitrate, and 16-0-0 fertilizer for sodium nitrate as I mentioned in my post several pages above.
I heat my salts to 900degF and I use a metronome app to time my 308win brass at 5 seconds.
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some propaganda to ponder AMP propaganda
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I anneal based on a method that was popular on this august forum back around 2006.
I work in a dark room. I use a propane torch, and a pie pan full of water. I hold the brass in my fingers and heat it with the torch, turning it as I go. At the merest hint of color, I release the brass and it falls into the water. I also count slowly. Let's say I'm seeing color at Ten. The next round, I'm ready to release at 9. I know if I get to 11, I'll burn my fingers. After I'm done annealing, I'll either pop the rounds in a toaster oven at 300 for 20 minutes to drive out the water, or I'll place them in the vibratory cleaner with corn cob.
I've done quite a bit of brass since 2006 of all sorts and sizes. No splits. No problems.
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All American
All the time
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Great article - thanks , I don't think a company would lay out false information in this day & age . Get caught BS'ing people and it will be very bad for business . Probably won't change the minds of folks who use the Salt Bath System because they've loaded & shot their brass accurately many many times .
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Great article - thanks , I don't think a company would lay out false information in this day & age .
Sure about that? Do you really think a company selling $1500 annealing machines would publish any hint that a sub-$100 DIY method might be as good? The "results" of that article were a foregone conclusion before they ever started. Propaganda is right; it's just a marketing article. As someone pointed out on another forum, this is no different than a Chevy or Ford commercial saying their truck is better than anyone else's. You could also ask yourself this - why does the "salt bath annealed" brass in that article look like it was flame annealed? Salt bath annealing leaves a distinct look on the brass and it doesn't look like that as far as I've ever seen.
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Great article - thanks , I don't think a company would lay out false information in this day & age .
Sure about that? Do you really think a company selling $1500 annealing machines would publish any hint that a sub-$100 DIY method might be as good? The "results" of that article were a foregone conclusion before they ever started. Propaganda is right; it's just a marketing article. As someone pointed out on another forum, this is no different than a Chevy or Ford commercial saying their truck is better than anyone else's. You could also ask yourself this - why does the "salt bath annealed" brass in that article look like it was flame annealed? Salt bath annealing leaves a distinct look on the brass and it doesn't look like that as far as I've ever seen. I didn't realise their machine cost that much , I've been wrong before . Never seen a salt bath system other than a video ..
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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