Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Prices Seem Suppressed

So how many rounds does take it for the cheap ones break?

It all depends on what you want or need to do.

I can build a reliable gun for 500 or less. Might not be Krieger accurate but would be reliable. Will take a bit of elbow grease obviously.

That said I've never shot a 400 buck one in a match. But we do have a couple of them around 500 parted together for vehicle guns and I'd stake my life on either one any day.
What are your reloads? I'm always keeping x39 reload data thats good for moa or less. Ball ammo sure won't do that.

OTOH having had bad barrels from even top names, that were getting close to opening up to 3/4 plus MOA, when the normal ones would hover at .5 moa, less for fewer shots in the group... LOL, there are bad barrels and they often come in batches.

To say bear creek is always good is nuts. To say always bad about the same...

Then there are accuracy parameters. I sent a TC barrel back once, they shot it and said it gave 4-5 inch groups at 100, I said yes, exactly. They said thats acceptable. So I junked the TC tube and put a green mountain tube on and was shooting around 1.5 inches with honking slugs at 100 with iron sights.

something aint' right with my posts tonight. LOL its not me. Could be Talkeetna internet though..LOL. Double post, WTF

Exactly it’s always great to see the AR snobs falling out of the roof. At one time a colt made m4 carbine cost the us army about $400 bucks.. i haven’t ran nsn for one in yrs, all the colt made m4 have been turned in up here in our BCT and replaced with FN made m4 carbines.

You just have to love speculation...
Y'all enjoy your discussion.It's too deep for my boots...

I’ve seen as few as 100 or closer to 1000.

That’s what makes them so exciting, you just never know when they’ll crash on you.

Ha ha, i was hoping you werent going old and senile

Well I guess I am an AR snob but being in a mechanical business, I've seen plenty of guys who can't start a nut without cross threading it. It's not always the substance of parts that make them cheap but the quality behind the guys building the parts and putting them together.

Never seen a contract awarded for an M4 that equalled $400, I think when Remington cut everyone's throat a few years back it was around $600. But then again I had a buddy that bought an M16 A1 for less than $200 back in the day.

Problem with cheap AR's is the companies hire people that know nothing about them and the main goal is to build as cheap as possible.that's not a plan to build quality anything but with bogus reviews on the net, people believe parts is parts and 3 shots under MOA once in a while means it's an MOA gun.

But if buying low bid parts assembled by illegals or custom guns built by bubba in their basements blows up your skirt, have at it.

There isn't much built today that isn't built as inexpensively as possible.
Including low bid parts and cheapest possible labor.

Quality standards and enforcement, are the wall against junk.

Bogus Reviews??

Oh, so now we are talking about Anderson.

The way you get to a reasonable priced gun is buy the important parts from known sources.

Things like non staked carrier keys are easy to stake or loctite and I've never had 640 loctite come loose... or the AMU that I'm aware of.

You get a good bolt. Blemished upper and lower. Keeping factory trigger which is junk to me but reliable keeps cost down., Then the rest of the parts are pretty much a non issue. Other than the barrel. And at one point you could get a Wilson barrel from White Oak or CLE reasonably enough. I"m sure its still the case. But with lowers at 30 bucks and blem uppers not that much more...

What else in there is really important ? I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

BUT this is if you know what you are doing, and do it well while having fun putting it together.

I have seen issues, usually not hard to correct, from assembled parts kit type guns.

I have not seen a gun fall apart at 100 or 1000 or more rounds, but falling apart and a minor issue like needing a new extractor are different subjects in my book.

That said, one can usually not go wrong with top names.

There is so much bluster wrapped up in these threads about price, quality, and "just as good". I've said before, I'm not an expert on ARs, but there is something to be said for guns across the spectrum of price levels. I don't have a ton of money(partially because I have to pay my mortgage and am NOT living in my moms basement), I have other expensive hobbies, I like to tinker with things, I trust myself to be capable of solving small problems, and I'm willing to be patient and trust companies (in this case PSA) will stand behind their products in the case of a big problem, and I don't need a rifle for competition or to stake my life on day in and day out. So, I choose to buy "cheap" and accept it for what it is. I won't ever say it is "just as good" as a $3k premium rifle because that statement is so subjective, and contains so much variability,that it is essentially meaningless. And in some very objective and measurable ways it is NOT just as good.

The OP asked about a couple rifles at a low price point, for a "general use" carbine. My guess is that the two he selected would serve him well, as would a package from PSA or another relatively inexpensive rifle. I'm guessing that by "general use" he means informal target shooting, hunting varmints/hogs/etc at shortish ranges, and having a rifle available in case of emergency. An "average" PSA setup will do that, so will the average ruger, or S&W. Would a Noveske do that too? Of course.

Saying that these inexpensive rifles are likely to fail between 100 and 1000 rounds is a gross overstatement. If the majority, or even a large proportion did, these companies wouldn't survive more than a few years in the current competitive market. With a "cheap" gun chances of a lemon are obviously much higher because because of QC, parts variability, etc. But the chance of a lemon with a premium rifle still exists. As with all things, you get what you pay for, unless you just have bad luck. If you offered me the worst gun to come out of a premium high end manufacturer, and the best gun PSA ever produced, I'd take the PSA every time.

What this country needs is more thoughtful ethical gun owners, shooters, and hunters. Not less. Companies like PSA are putting out a huge number of safe and serviceable guns to people who wouldn't otherwise get one.

With all that said, I won't ever buy from BCA because their business practices and ethics suck.

Nothing wrong with some illegal alien labor at the factory..

1-Nobody made that gross overstatement.

2-Yes, those companies would survive. Because....
A-The overwhelming majority of people who buy a $400 rifle will never fire a case of ammo through them. So the companies can put out a garbage product knowing full well that their customer base will never test them to failure.
B-People who buy $400 ARs will buy cheap ammo to shoot through them. When there's a malfunction, just chalk it up to the ammo and keep charging on.
C-People don't know what the heck they're actually talking about. Case in point....The dude who claims he has a 1MOA 7x39 from BCA. No, he doesn't. And his six friends don't either. The standard he's using to measure success is so wildly skewed that companies will absolutely survive selling him garbage products.

I'm not going to argue with you with a keyboard.You win 'Bwana.You know everything about firearms.Hell,you know everything about me.You really are something else...
Y'all enjoy your discussions.

Post up some vids of you and your friends shooting sub-moa and shut him up..............or not.

Some pretty broad assumptions by some on this post concerning what type of ammo we shoot in our sub par it's going to fail between 100-1000 rd AR's. As of now I put 500rds of through my subpar AR. No FTF, no FTE, etc. I have yet to shoot any cheap ammo through it. All been handloaded 75's, 77's, 80's, 88's and 90's. I will be honest my rifle with a 10 shot group is a honest 1.2-1.5 inch rifle at a 100yds. Just shot a 10 shot group this evening 1.2 or so inch. I don't bother posting pictures anymore. I have nothing to prove to any of you yahoos. I do know if I want up my game for the AR tactical or Service rifle competitions I need to get another barrel it will probably be a WOA barrel. But for the average guy shooting orange clay pigeons on the burm inch and half rifle is just fine.

C'mon Blue, these things are sub-MOA ALL DAY LONG!!!!!

See? I even highlighted them for you.

Yes, that's a fact, & in reality, there are a lot more of those rifles than there are sub-MOA rifles (& shooters & ammo) for 10 shots x 2 or 3 or 4.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either as long as the gun is consistent, that's good shooting.

The rub comes in when lots of guys, here, & on other forums too, try to convince everyone that their single, cherry-picked 3-shot group means that they have a "sub-MOA' rifle, all day, every day, especially on rifles with more or less suspect barrels.

Make of that whatever you want, & like it or not, it is what it is.

Here's a really good article with a slightly different take on accuracy by a guy who knows what he's talking about, Jack Leuba from Knight's Armament (KAC)...........it's worth the time to read it.

MM

Let's Talk About Accuracy

That's insane.

Glad I've never bought any of their stuff, if that's how they think and treat their good customers.