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Apparently there is an new movie about the battle coming out later this year. Woody Harrelson as Nimitz...Really? Well, it is better than the upchucking reflex I had from seeing Arec Barrwin as Doolittle!
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The Guadalcanal campaign would have been very different if the Japanese had a few more carriers and aircrews to use. There would not have bee a Guadalcanal campaign, at least not then had we lost at Midway. Be that as it may, they still kicked our ass at Savo Island and had they pressed their attack could have probably won. regarding salvo, one of my experiences. some years ago i had a book laying on my office desk on the battle of salvo island. older gentleman came in to do some business, and saw the book, asked me if i was reading it, yes, and proceded to cry. I asked him what the matter was. He was on that destroyer cut in half by the jap cruiser at night. He and some others floated around just hundreds of yards from the canal, afraid to put ashore due to japanese troops. ships would not stop due to fear of japanest artillery. after about a week, they finally rowed ashore after dark and made in to american postitions. It's something to read in a book, then run into a man that was in the actual engagement. I was cleaning up an estate just recently, ran into a photo of a guy's navy boot camp graduation. He was on the U.S.S. stennis, a dd destroyer that participated in the battle of the sargasso sea, off the phillipines if i spelled it correctly. Last and biggest battleship confrontation where the U.S. had some atvantage having some radar. As i read it, a japanese battleship was bracketed on the first salvo at over 12miles at night. the Stennis was envolved in that confrontation. His widow had given me his navy dogtags some years ago. At one time i had client that were in the air over okinawa, in the marines, that hit the beach, and in the navy at okinawa. One regret is i should have put them together and bought them a communal lunch.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 06/04/19.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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At the WWII Memorial in D.C. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/sXRtbSpm/Midway.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/sXyNTzr0/Nimitz.jpg)
Last edited by Hawk_Driver; 06/04/19.
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and if you want something wierd, as i was typing this my cellphone went off indicating an email i just got, hawking a book on the battle of midway. go figure.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Last edited by Mannlicher; 06/04/19.
Sam......
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Shokaku and Zuikaku were not at Midway because of the Coral Sea battle. Those two got there's later in the war. If six carriers had been present history would most likely be much different. A lot of history swings on single critical points. Breaking Japanese code, the fake message about the water shortage, the sub contact creating the trail McClusky followed back to the carriers, the sacrifice of the torpedo planes, Nagumos indecision about which target to rearm for, the delay of the Jap scout plane launches, etc., each little point critical to the outcome.
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An English translation of the Japanese carrier names:
From the Combined Fleet web page.
Hosho class
Hosho: "How a phoenix dives", implies power
Kaga class
Kaga: "Increased Joy", a province name (Kaga was originally laid down as a battleship)
Akagi class
Akagi: "Red Castle", a volcano in the Kanto area (Akagi was originally laid down as a battlecruiser)
Ryujo class
Ryujo: "Such as a dragon builds", "Sacred Dragon"
Soryu class
Soryu: "Blue-gray dragon"
Hiryu: "Dragon Flying in Heaven"
Zuiho class
Zuiho: "Lucky or Auspicious Phoenix"
Shoho: "Luckbringing Phoenix"
Ryuho class
Ryuho: "Dragon and Phoenix"
Shokaku class
Shokaku: "Crane Flying in Heaven" (also "Happy Crane")
Zuikaku: "Lucky or Fortunate or Auspicious Crane"
Hiyo class
Hiyo: "A Falcon Flying Away"
Junyo: "Wandering Falcon"
Taiho class
Taiho: "Great or Greater Phoenix"
Shinano class
Shinano: A province, containing Nagano City (Shinano was originally laid down as a battleship); also the longest river in Japan
Unryu class
Unryu: "Cloud of a Heaven-flying dragon", "Dragon in Clouds"
Amagi: "Heaven castle," a volcano
Katsuragi "Katsura Castle," a mountain
Chitose class
Chitose: "1000 Years," or, "Long Life", a city
Chiyoda: "That which will live 1000 years or 1000 generations", "Like the Fields" (also the name of the Imperial palace in Tokyo)
Taiyo class
Taiyo: "Greater falcon"
Unyo: "Cloud falcon"
Chuyo "High Seas Falcon"
Kaiyo class
Kaiyo "Sea falcon"
Shinyo class
Shinyo: "Condor"
Mizuho class
Mizuho: Juicy rice ears
Nisshin class
Nisshin: Daily fort patrol
So after running out of ways to name a carrier after a falcon or a Phoenix their next option is "juicy rice ears"? No wonder we kicked their ass.
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I'm always amazed at history and the way major battles and even the results of wars have turned on seeming minor events.
Midway when a Destroyer was sent to look for a American sub and was spotted trying to return to the fleet.
Gettysburg, when a Officer decided his unit had retreated far enough that day and he liked the ground he was standing on.
Time after time.
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One often overlooked fact of this battle is that it is the first time the Thach weave was used by F4 pilots and first time IJN fighters got their asses handed to them in dogfights.
Enjoy.
Had to look that up. Ingenious.
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Breaking the Japanese code is what won the battle of Midway. Our carriers were out to sea waiting on the attack. If they had been in Pearl Harbor Midway would have fallen.
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Some pretty dark days in early 1942. Other than Doolitles raid, the folks on the home front had little to cheer about. Not only did our boys break the back of the Japanese Imperial Navy that day, but they gave America hope and the confidence that we're going to win this thing. Service branches like the Marines in the Pacific Islands, Army starting in North Africa, Sicily, and crossing the channel into Normandy, the Army Air Corps in Europe, the Navy on the seven seas, along with American civilian might certainly combined to the war.
But on that June day in 1942, at great sacrifice, the tide was turned. And that was all we needed. God Bless the U.S. Navy and her brave men.
"A Republic, if you can keep it." ~ B. Franklin
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Very neat. If you want to read the BEST book on the battle, get "Shattered Sword"... paperback on Amazon. incredible read.. Thank you for the recommendation, I also ordered it 
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This has been a great thread.
Thanks for the education.
Last edited by Raeford; 06/04/19.
FJB & FJT
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Shokaku and Zuikaku were not at Midway because of the Coral Sea battle. Those two got there's later in the war. If six carriers had been present history would most likely be much different. A lot of history swings on single critical points. Breaking Japanese code, the fake message about the water shortage, the sub contact creating the trail McClusky followed back to the carriers, the sacrifice of the torpedo planes, Nagumos indecision about which target to rearm for, the delay of the Jap scout plane launches, etc., each little point critical to the outcome. True. All the cards fell into place, and at the right time too, for us to prevail like we did. We were very fortunate, because at that stage in the war, we were still very short on carriers, and the odds were pretty much on the side of the Japs.
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On one show a question was "On what day of the week did the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor"? Not a single contestant knew it was Sunday. Hell, that was a major part of the Japanese strategy, catching the Americans off guard on a day of rest.
Ignorance of history abounds.
Paul I was born in 1950, so when I was growing up, it wasn't all that many years after WW2. I can still remember people talking about where they were, and what they were doing when they heard about Pearl Harbor. The only thing we've had to compare it to since was 9/11, and even though that was a very tragic event, I don't think it left the impression on people like Pearl Harbor did of that generation.
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The Guadalcanal campaign would have been very different if the Japanese had a few more carriers and aircrews to use. There would not have been a Guadalcanal campaign, at least not then had we lost at Midway. Be that as it may, they still kicked our ass at Savo Island and had they pressed their attack could have probably won. Yes, that is my thought, it would have setback our timetable for the offensive and made the war much longer. It’s amazing that the Japanese were so timid with their Guadalcanal strategy, they could have won it early by being bold. Victory disease I guess. In the big scheme of things, Japan lost the war when the first bomb (or torpedo) came off the rails on December 7th... Yes, i agree, I meant the Japanese could have won at Guadalcanal by being more aggressive early. If Mikawa has turned against the transports he could have wreaked havoc, If they had sortied a larger group of battleships for the early night battles, I guess they had trouble fueling them though. Hindsight.
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Very neat. If you want to read the BEST book on the battle, get "Shattered Sword"... paperback on Amazon. incredible read.. Ordered - and on the way.. Thanks jorge.... Me too  g5m recently posted a good video giving the events at Midway from the Japanese perspective, prior to that I had not appreciated the role the continuous, if unsuccessful, American attacks by land-based aircraft played in stalling the Japanese attack. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/13838850/Searchpage/1/Main/935813/Words/%2BJapanese/Search/true/the-battle-of-midway-from-the-japanese-perspective#Post13838850
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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On one show a question was "On what day of the week did the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor"? Not a single contestant knew it was Sunday. Hell, that was a major part of the Japanese strategy, catching the Americans off guard on a day of rest.
Ignorance of history abounds.
Paul I was born in 1950, so when I was growing up, it wasn't all that many years after WW2. I can still remember people talking about where they were, and what they were doing when they heard about Pearl Harbor. The only thing we've had to compare it to since was 9/11, and even though that was a very tragic event, I don't think it left the impression on people like Pearl Harbor did of that generation. 9-11 did not destroy half of the US Navy.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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The Guadalcanal campaign would have been very different if the Japanese had a few more carriers and aircrews to use. There would not have bee a Guadalcanal campaign, at least not then had we lost at Midway. Be that as it may, they still kicked our ass at Savo Island and had they pressed their attack could have probably won. Midway may have turned out differently if Shokaku had not been damaged at Coral Sea and therefore unavailble at Midway.
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Gents, if this topic interests you read Craig L. Symonds
World War II at Sea: A Global History.
Former Professor at Annapolis IIRC.
GREAT read.
“Factio democratica delenda est"
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