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Originally Posted by jimmyp
its possible though not probable that seconds might count sometime but its just a matter of preference and what your comfortable with, I am not adverse to a 14.7 inch barrel with a fixed flash hider making it 16 inches.


If seconds count & I need it quickly, nothing that's in backpack is gonna work well....................that's what a G19 or G17 or a Sig 325 or....................is for, IMO.

If I need it that quickly, it's likely to be short range, so no rifle (round) really required. If it doesn't really need to be concealed then the barrel length on a rifle, within all reason, is really a more or less moot point.

That was the original point I was trying to make.

MM

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I understand what you are saying MM, but I believe the 5.56 will put someone down a lot more decisively at close range, than a 9mm or similar. It will also defeat most body armor. That's probably why entry teams are using the 10.5" and similar ARs.

I think the 10.5" has advantages over a 14.7" in close quarters, tactical stacks, fighting from inside vehicles, etc. I'm not doing that type of shooting.

I had to have a 10.5 due to the fact PSA nearly gives the uppers away....grin. For me it's a cool play toy more than anything else.

I do have 10.5 and 14.7 ARs, I prefer the 14.7" by a good margin for the type of shooting I generally do. For a home defense, I'd grab the 14.7 every time.

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Yeah, I agree for sure, on the rifle round being more effective than a 9mm in the absolute........................but since 99% of those carrying daily are using handguns, I think we can surmise that the handgun round is "sufficient" for the most part, whatever that means, for short term, short range encounters.

If I know or think something more than that is going to be on the menu, then I'm going to pick a longer gun anyway.

So for me, average Joe Schmo, the 10.5" AR just doesn't have much real appeal, other than a novelty, hence the right bullet for it is kind moot.

And so I just use in my 14.7" gun, what I use in my 16 & 18" guns & don't give it much worry.

MM

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I've not bought into the AR "pistol" idea and can't see it as something I'm going to do.

If I need a pistol, I need a pistol that is easily concealed under a T-shirt, if I'm in a vehicle, the pistol is still there. If I wanted an SBR, it would be a 10.5-11" SBR with a can. I used to have a 14.5" gun and much prefer the 16" version.

But for fun, it don't matter much what you choose.

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Yeah, I agree for sure, on the rifle round being more effective than a 9mm in the absolute........................but since 99% of those carrying daily are using handguns, I think we can surmise that the handgun round is "sufficient" for the most part, whatever that means, for short term, short range encounters.

If I know or think something more than that is going to be on the menu, then I'm going to pick a longer gun anyway.

So for me, average Joe Schmo, the 10.5" AR just doesn't have much real appeal, other than a novelty, hence the right bullet for it is kind moot.

And so I just use in my 14.7" gun, what I use in my 16 & 18" guns & don't give it much worry.

MM


If we're only talking about 5.56 in short ARs, I'd agree with you; I don't have much use for a shorty 5.56 myself. But the conversation changes a bit when the other available cartridges are thrown into the mix. With the 300 Blk for example, the question really becomes more about why to use a longer barrel and "what do I gain", to which the answer is "very little"; it just makes more sense to use a short 9"-10.5" barrel. Or with something like my 12.5" 6.5 Grendel, I acknowledge the compromises from a longer barrel, but it still is more effective downrange than my 16" 5.56, and is a lot easier to handle in tight spaces so it really does make a lot of sense.

Obviously you give up some ballistics in most rounds with a shorter barrel, but what you gain in maneuverability, general handiness, and ease of transport can be worth a lot too. Also - don't assume that a short barrel has to be limited to short range. Appropriate optics on something like my Grendel mentioned above make it effective a lot farther out than most people use their 16' carbines.

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Yes, I agree on the short barreled 300 BO having more usefulness than the 5.56 & it's most definitely more effective than a handgun.

MM

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wish I had held on to some of my evil black guns...


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Originally Posted by jimmyp
wish I had held on to some of my evil black guns...


There's still time & prices are pretty good right now, depending on what you want.

MM

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by Big Stick
Starting velocity,ain't arrival velocity,thus the penchant to add BC to the equation...to retain same.

Hint....................
You aren't going to be able to tell the difference in terminal velocity between any of the 75/77gr bullets out of a 10.5" barrel at game ranges. There's likely more difference in velocity between your individual rounds than between bullet types. I've seen ES over 70fps with a SD of about 20.



Sweetie,

Your inability to grasp the obvious,isn't the affliction of others. Hint. Congratulations?!?

It'll only come as a "surprise" to you,that not all things are "equal". Feel free to cite "game range" and the particulars of the schit ammo you reflect upon.

Bless your heart for trying though.

Hint.....................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by TWR
I've not bought into the AR "pistol" idea and can't see it as something I'm going to do.

If I need a pistol, I need a pistol that is easily concealed under a T-shirt, if I'm in a vehicle, the pistol is still there. If I wanted an SBR, it would be a 10.5-11" SBR with a can. I used to have a 14.5" gun and much prefer the 16" version.

But for fun, it don't matter much what you choose.




Not my jam either,but a 10" Contender twisted right,with a good bullet...will flat FHUQK critters up.

18" is as short as I like to go on a 223 Krunchenticker(less a Loudener) and make mine Rifle Gas,because noise don't horn me up.

The Good Colonel said it best,in that " a pistol is for fighting your way to a rifle".

Hint.....................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
IC B3

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Contenders is where my lack of interest comes from on AR pistols. I had a 10" 223 and a Super 14, neither one was fun in an enclosed environment. House gun? I'd rather affix bayonet than touch off a 223 pistol indoors.

It is remarkable what difference an 18" barrel makes, less noise and more velocity.

I put down a cow inside a barn once with a mini 14, dirt fell from the rafters for a day, my ears rang for a week.

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I hate Contenders as a fhuqking whole(no matter who built 'em)...but can defer to XP-100 GREATNESS in retrospect,in both Fireball and 223,to account for impact velocities.

There was a goodly run,where all of my newly wed pards got a Mini-14 as a Wedding "Gift",because I had (6) of the fhuqking things to get rid of.(grin)

If I was CONVINCED I needed a 223 "pistol" for a crummy,it'd be a fhuqking side folding piston 18" Krunchenticker,which I HATE!

Laughing!........................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by Big Stick
There was a goodly run,where all of my newly wed pards got a Mini-14 as a Wedding "Gift",because I had (6) of the fhuqking things to get rid of.(grin)

Slow learner.


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You assuredly are. Congratulations?!?

Hint.................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by Big Stick

There was a goodly run,where all of my newly wed pards got a Mini-14 as a Wedding "Gift",because I had (6) of the fhuqking things to get rid of.(grin)




What on earth did they do to make you hate them that much?


'Four legs good, two legs baaaad."
----------------------------------------------
"Jimmy, some of it's magic,
Some of it's tragic,
But I had a good life all the way."
(Jimmy Buffett)

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